No call on December 25



NameOrganizationEmail Address 
Vipin Bharathandlt llc dba
Darrell O'DonnellContinuum loop

Dan BachenheimerAccenture
Darrell ODonnell

LasseDeutche Busse?
Luca BoldrinInfocert and Sovrin Steward
Marvin Bertechereasantus
Julie Esser

Ravikant AgrawalBC Consultant
Stefan Mouy

J ShimLG and SSI Meetup Korea
Jim MasonFabric projects and Boston Meetup
Drummond Reedevernym Chief Trust Officer
Bobbi MuscaraLedger Academy
Darrell ODonnell

AxelRed Hat
Richard Esplin

Sumit Kumar

Marvin Berstecheresatus
Ron Kreutzer

Moad Misrar





Anti-trust and code of conduct

Quick Introductions

Darrell O'Donnell - Digital Wallet

Over a year ago started a report to understand the landscape of: what is a digital wallet and what do we need to understand so we can plan for the next few years in the digital lifecycle? The lack of clarity causing problems: developed report - A Talk by Darrell O'Donnell on Digital Wallets


Drummond - the core terms you are using - one of the things we've seen is there isn't consistent usage of the terms. For example, 'wallet'. Different communities and vendors are using the term differently. What definitions or directions have you seen? 

  The Sovrin Indy is shifting away from key management system. A wallet, at minimum, needs to be able to store, retrieve, interact with various parties. What is an agent? A communication agent? Credential exchange? Sovrin Indies/Aries - to me not a config file. 

Dan; TC 307 CD 22739 says: 3.84 wallet application used to generate, manage, store or use private and public keys (3.62, 3.65) Note to entry: A wallet can be implemented as a software or hardware module.

Vipin: Without connectivity or storage of credentials - need fully functional system to manage and expose credentials. 

Drummond: Exploring terms, trying to pull out different definitions to help those in industry start to recognize and arrive at common benefit. One customer usage of the word wallet a clear superset of the ISO definition. Mobile app you would be using on a smart phone for everything you do as a holder of credentials as an SSI holder.

Darrell: The term wallet resonates with people. In deep tech used key management system. Darrell notes - some of the terms have been locked down way before they should have. Blockchain is still an emerging space. People consider their personal wallet a part of their identity. Different credit unions - the definition is not near enough. 

Dan: The ISO has not been finalized - CD = committee draft.

Vipin: Two views: a) not the time to finalize. b) we should be engaged with TC 307. There is a message from Todd Little (Oracle), he wants to engage with the community. Large commercial interests may be driving ISO due to the membership requirements. 

Tension between setting standards too early and setting standards too late. 

Dan: There are corporate folks and national standards bodies represented, not only commercial interests. 

In TC 307 Identity is defined as with four dimensions a) natural person,  b) legal entity, c) thing, d) process (ie software version)

Darrell: How does an IoT device use a wallet if all it does is manage or store keys? How far does Thing go? Are animals things or their own category? 

Dan: Agents - more of the communications process - to make things happen with what's in your wallet.

Drummond: In defining governance frameworks, legal policies, Stewards. We paired wallet and agents. Wallet - storage facing side, six different things stored in wallet. Agent - active process to handle communications, processes, etc. 

Issuer, holder, verifier - some comment everything is part of what a wallet does (comment from customer). 

Drummond and Darrell: What do you think will be the evolutionary path? Embedded wallet - little desire for wallet apps sitting next to a banking application. Will go through stages - embedded industry/sector specific. Later, there will be a 'wallet' that perhaps manages, maybe discrete devices, operating systems. Interoperability rather than multiple apps. Mini wallet = embedded wallet = customer doesn't really know it's a wallet. Initial pattern. Discrete wallet app. Standards > operating system. Becomes a standard set of OS services such as today's touchID, faceID, etc.

Vipin: From here to there is the fascinating part. Amorphous nature of the term wallet. Human experience + digital realm where we interact with different services through portals. Unification of portals. Delegation. Classification (pets or IoT) things that belong to me, things that belong to someone else. 

Luca: Issues with globally accepted standards.

DIDs is still a draft. 


We need a definition of the stack and ability to communicate on the maturity of the code and specs. Major step - work on the communications (wallet 2 wallet agent communications) DID Com = DID to DID. In order to have IP protection (as protocols) is moving to the DID foundation because it's a Joint Dev Foundation that can have appropriate IP in place (January). There will be a consolidated set of evolving specifications.Layer 1, Layer 3, Layer 4, in process. Trust/IP Linux Foundation will launch in January.

Broader question of encrypted personal storage - project hosted at DIF in collaboration with W3. Still in debate. If you choose to store credentials in a hub or data store that does not meet the definition of a wallet?

Darrell: Concerned anything transport dependent will limit options. Can I do bluetooth? Does it have to be https:? Darrell's contact: @darrello

Vipin: Working going on in different places - there is also work in other countries. May not conform to 'perfect SSI system'; question of expediency - people need to deliver services now. All of the adaptations and implementations have their own rationale. Can we make changes in existing systems directly? Via regulation such as India's Supreme Court system? In the end, how do we converge in the best possible way, without imposing on others.

Jim Mason: From the outside - different standards organizations and stakeholders. Multiple implementations for wallets, blockchains, etc. Is anyone actively working on an executable model - providing a live model with a DSL. In discussion/debate - modeling can be an important step in the process to define a workable set of interfaces for a broad range of needs in these stacks. I didn't hear live modeling processes going on? 

Taxonomies, use cases, domains -helps to have an executable modeling system. Execute a model of requirements - ie, add terms to the model to see responsibilities, dependencies, etc. Creates stability rather than jump directly into restrictive implementations. 

Time is the issue - takes less time. 

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