WEBVTT 1 00:00:46.110 --> 00:00:48.070 trevorbutterworth: Hey, there! 2 00:00:48.310 --> 00:00:50.060 trevorbutterworth: wow! 3 00:00:50.730 --> 00:00:51.960 trevorbutterworth: Only 2 of us. 4 00:00:53.300 --> 00:00:59.580 trevorbutterworth: I had the wrong link. So I'm wondering whether other for the meeting. I'm wondering whether other people did. 5 00:01:01.260 --> 00:01:20.329 Keela Shatzkin: I don't know it. This is the second time. I think we can't join the link early, either, so I panic every time I try to be, I hear, a few minutes early, and it says, and then all of a sudden, it works just fine. Okay, well, we've got we go folks joining. Yes, hello! There! 6 00:01:24.900 --> 00:01:26.250 Mike Ebert (Indicio): It's just me. 7 00:01:27.180 --> 00:01:29.320 Keela Shatzkin: It's not just you. It was also Helen. 8 00:01:30.330 --> 00:01:35.750 Mike Ebert (Indicio): meaning the folks who joined the 3 of you are here already. So 9 00:01:35.820 --> 00:01:37.920 Mike Ebert (Indicio): well, Helen, only be to by a second 10 00:01:37.990 --> 00:01:39.340 Mike Ebert (Indicio): gotcha. 11 00:01:44.550 --> 00:01:58.820 Helen Garneau: No, Hello! Hi! There! I like, I didn't like hit. The okay. You can record this button, or whatever, so it wouldn't let me come off mute. It won't let you participate if you don't acknowledge it's okay to record. I think that's right. 12 00:01:59.830 --> 00:02:04.760 Helen Garneau: Cool, feature. Very logical. very logical. Yes. 13 00:02:06.270 --> 00:02:11.050 Keela Shatzkin: Awesome. And thanks for queuing up the 14 00:02:11.270 --> 00:02:17.370 Keela Shatzkin: in the meeting note section Helen, appreciate that. 15 00:02:18.000 --> 00:02:23.660 Helen Garneau: oh, yeah. My pleasure. I never really know kind of what to take out, besides what 16 00:02:23.770 --> 00:02:35.869 Helen Garneau: you know, if there's a speaker or something like that. So all of those notes are from like the very first meeting we had at Hyper Ledger. So if you need to take, obviously, you know, edit edit as you will. 17 00:02:38.390 --> 00:02:41.630 Helen Garneau: I think it's still some doubt there's still some valuable links there. 18 00:02:41.880 --> 00:02:53.410 Helen Garneau: relating to how to find us, and where you can find the most recent information. And what links to you and all that kind of stuff to join. So maybe maybe keeping it as helpful. But 19 00:02:54.390 --> 00:02:55.350 Helen Garneau: whatever 20 00:03:00.450 --> 00:03:03.090 Keela Shatzkin: all right, we'll just give people another minute. 21 00:03:03.490 --> 00:03:13.129 Keela Shatzkin: Trevor, you're queued. We we finish. I believe it was page 23. If I recall correctly 22 00:03:13.360 --> 00:03:15.459 trevorbutterworth: which documents do you want to work from? 23 00:03:17.670 --> 00:03:23.509 Keela Shatzkin: I would say, whatever is easiest for you to be honest. your dealer's choice. 24 00:03:25.350 --> 00:03:32.880 trevorbutterworth: let's let's let's do it from Powerpoint, because it'd be easier for me to type notes into the final thing. 25 00:03:33.550 --> 00:03:41.070 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): Let me just do you have a a link you can share of the most recent version of the document. 26 00:03:41.500 --> 00:03:45.019 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): Sometimes it's easier if I can scroll down a little bit. 27 00:03:45.160 --> 00:03:48.549 trevorbutterworth: I believe we do 28 00:03:49.630 --> 00:03:51.590 Keela Shatzkin: give me a second. 29 00:04:03.510 --> 00:04:07.099 Keela Shatzkin: Hmm! I have a Pdf. Trevor. Is that linkable? 30 00:04:07.310 --> 00:04:14.920 trevorbutterworth: it's not. But let me. I if you, if you give me 2 min, I can make a Google Doc of it. 31 00:04:16.459 --> 00:04:23.859 trevorbutterworth: The reason I don't do go go do the reason I don't do Google, Doc, is that it? It just messes with the format. And it's 32 00:04:23.910 --> 00:04:31.169 Keela Shatzkin: yeah from I just flipped it to Steve directly also. But for anybody else like moving forward, maybe we can put it in our notes. 33 00:04:31.940 --> 00:04:49.089 Helen Garneau: Yeah, I was gonna say, anything, okay, stuff shouldn't live in our own personal. Pardon me, our own personal Google drives for this. Everything should live on the Wiki So if you can put upload a upload the file directly there for people to see. that would be helpful. 34 00:04:51.770 --> 00:05:04.720 Keela Shatzkin: Okay, and if we're ready to get into our agenda we're still missing for Ken, I'm not sure if we were expecting him today. But we can go ahead and get through some of our housekeeping items as we get ourselves organized today. 35 00:05:06.370 --> 00:05:26.819 Keela Shatzkin: So welcome to the July thirteenth edition of the cardiac working group. We are, a participant of Hyper Ledger Labs, which means that we're operating under the Hyper Ledger, Anti, Tr and the Linux Foundation Antitrust policy, and I will chat for you all our 36 00:05:27.030 --> 00:05:30.379 Keela Shatzkin: notes which are on the Wiki Page and Hyper Ledger. 37 00:05:31.860 --> 00:05:33.640 Hopefully, this link works. 38 00:05:34.650 --> 00:05:54.889 Keela Shatzkin: It's my edited one. But we are also operating under the Hyper Ledger code of conduct, which, in short, is encouraging everybody to have a voice here to be nice to each other, to encourage participation, and to welcome anybody who wants to engage in our community. So with that, said. 39 00:05:55.070 --> 00:06:04.899 Keela Shatzkin: I think we have all familiar faces. So I'm gonna skip introductions. If that's okay, feel free to type in and introduce yourself if you want to, at any point. 40 00:06:06.080 --> 00:06:11.060 Keela Shatzkin: and we are resuming where we left off in our last session 41 00:06:11.170 --> 00:06:25.129 Keela Shatzkin: specifically to talk about the white paper edits, and getting through that we had finished on page 23 last time in our team effort and editing, and Trevor is going to lead us through 42 00:06:25.250 --> 00:06:31.870 Keela Shatzkin: hopefully, hopefully the end of the document, so that we can get that white paper finalized and redistributed. 43 00:06:33.260 --> 00:06:36.439 Keela Shatzkin: Anything anybody wants to add to the agenda 44 00:06:42.800 --> 00:06:48.060 trevorbutterworth: is that, did you just post that link in the chat to the white paper. 45 00:06:48.320 --> 00:06:54.000 trevorbutterworth: I did not I. That link was for the Wiki meeting notes. 46 00:06:55.060 --> 00:06:57.640 trevorbutterworth: Hold on. It's churning away. 47 00:07:04.190 --> 00:07:13.210 trevorbutterworth: okay. 48 00:07:39.510 --> 00:07:41.270 trevorbutterworth: okay, there you go 49 00:07:41.790 --> 00:07:47.710 Keela Shatzkin: fantastic. Thank you, Trevor. I'll put that in the Wiki page as well. If anybody is following along there. 50 00:07:49.980 --> 00:07:52.699 trevorbutterworth: And let's see. 51 00:07:53.550 --> 00:07:57.120 trevorbutterworth: let me share my screen 52 00:08:06.850 --> 00:08:26.179 Keela Shatzkin: while you're getting ready. We did cover in an offline discussion. Ken and I met as chairs to talk about lining up some additional agendas and trying to get some things booked out for some of our future meetings. So he and I have been making outreaches to the community. that we believe would be really 53 00:08:26.180 --> 00:08:39.100 Keela Shatzkin: helpful in terms of progressing the discussion around the work we're doing here at Cardiac in a real world scenario. So we've had a bunch of guest speakers. We're looking for some additional in very specific 54 00:08:39.169 --> 00:08:53.699 Keela Shatzkin: business communities that might be useful to helping us understand real world implementations. So we're hoping to get those slated for for upcoming meetings, and we'll try to keep the community updated on those as they get 55 00:08:54.430 --> 00:08:55.670 Keela Shatzkin: slated. 56 00:08:58.760 --> 00:09:06.510 trevorbutterworth: Yeah, let me let me go back to slide 22. 57 00:09:06.630 --> 00:09:12.239 trevorbutterworth: so do we need this middle column. Of 58 00:09:12.530 --> 00:09:19.290 trevorbutterworth: how necessary is that to explain what a schema is? I mean, it's just a little crowded. But 59 00:09:19.640 --> 00:09:29.470 trevorbutterworth: would it be more confusing if if we didn't have this? The these icons indicating what is actually written to the distributed ledger? 60 00:09:33.350 --> 00:09:43.469 Mike Ebert (Indicio): I'm of the opinion that the right side is technical, and the left side is might be a Tldr. For some people too long to. We don't read it. So the icons 61 00:09:43.640 --> 00:09:47.190 Mike Ebert (Indicio): that's the succinct list right there. That might might be pretty good. 62 00:09:48.770 --> 00:09:57.059 trevorbutterworth: sorry I'm I'm I'm W. Which of these 2 the distributed ledger network column or the actual schema date. Yeah, a scheme of data. 63 00:09:57.390 --> 00:10:03.799 Mike Ebert (Indicio): So the right most column is code that some people's eyes will just glaze over at 64 00:10:03.840 --> 00:10:09.590 Mike Ebert (Indicio): and the left. Most column is a lot of text. And so the the middle column is a nice summary. 65 00:10:09.980 --> 00:10:14.739 trevorbutterworth: right? Okay? So so everybody agreed that maybe getting rid of this. 66 00:10:17.330 --> 00:10:18.380 Mike Ebert (Indicio): the code. 67 00:10:18.600 --> 00:10:19.350 trevorbutterworth: Yeah. 68 00:10:22.380 --> 00:10:32.140 Mike Ebert (Indicio): that's for a pretty narrow audience, I think. the specifics. If someone says, Gosh, I really want to know about schemas from the middle column. 69 00:10:32.340 --> 00:10:34.320 Mike Ebert (Indicio): Then, 70 00:10:34.620 --> 00:10:37.830 Mike Ebert (Indicio): we could provide that in a different context for 71 00:10:38.580 --> 00:10:51.649 Mike Ebert (Indicio): for an overview. I don't think it's super important 72 00:10:52.140 --> 00:10:54.700 Keela Shatzkin: document. template. 73 00:10:56.790 --> 00:11:00.219 Keela Shatzkin: There you go. no, you have specification. You can take out document 74 00:11:02.850 --> 00:11:09.270 Mike Ebert (Indicio): for verifiable credentials that defines and describes the data they contain. Yeah, that's good. 75 00:11:09.910 --> 00:11:12.309 Keela Shatzkin: And then you could move that over. Yeah. 76 00:11:12.930 --> 00:11:22.229 Helen Garneau: is there any way that says it like what actually goes on the ledger, or something like that? Because I think that this is the answer to that question. 77 00:11:22.350 --> 00:11:24.489 Helen Garneau: I don't know if it's maybe in the 78 00:11:24.710 --> 00:11:27.419 Helen Garneau: somewhere else in this document I have the whole thing. 79 00:11:27.990 --> 00:11:29.180 Helen Garneau: Okay, cool. 80 00:11:30.430 --> 00:11:34.329 trevorbutterworth: Okay, we'll refine that. I'll make all of those bigger. 81 00:11:34.470 --> 00:11:43.210 Keela Shatzkin: And one of the points that was made last meeting is that the Revocation Registry is optional. 82 00:11:43.540 --> 00:11:52.409 Keela Shatzkin: Yes, so I don't know if there's if we want to kind of indent that in here, or if there's anything else that we want to highlight about this visual. 83 00:11:52.580 --> 00:11:54.880 trevorbutterworth: because maybe it would go 84 00:11:55.860 --> 00:12:01.170 Keela Shatzkin: next to the credential definition rather than before it. 85 00:12:01.590 --> 00:12:04.850 trevorbutterworth: So 86 00:12:05.570 --> 00:12:19.959 Mike Ebert (Indicio): what I would just do is reverse the order of the items and the icons that did is most important, followed by the schema, then the credential definition, and then that deep prioritizes the Revocation Registry to the bottom. 87 00:12:20.610 --> 00:12:28.140 trevorbutterworth: if only it were that simple Trevor. Okay? 88 00:12:31.420 --> 00:12:36.610 trevorbutterworth: So a slide 23 issuing and accepting a verifiable credential. 89 00:12:58.060 --> 00:13:08.530 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): just thinking out loud here. But that comment on the right says, following the QR. Code or link will establish a connection that seems kind of 90 00:13:09.020 --> 00:13:10.420 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): Vegan. 91 00:13:10.660 --> 00:13:22.429 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): I mean, I kind of, I guess. Like, I said, I'm thinking out loud. I think it's kind of an obvious statement. I don't know if there's a lot of value in how that's currently worded. 92 00:13:22.980 --> 00:13:25.190 Keela Shatzkin: Maybe it's that the the 93 00:13:25.590 --> 00:13:30.059 Keela Shatzkin: patient you use patient in this language. So it's the patient 94 00:13:31.920 --> 00:13:35.960 Keela Shatzkin: registers or 95 00:13:36.130 --> 00:13:43.649 Keela Shatzkin: hmm. how would you say that when you like connect with the QR code because it's a QR or link. 96 00:13:45.900 --> 00:13:46.670 Hmm. 97 00:13:50.180 --> 00:13:53.069 Helen Garneau: follows, the patient follows. 98 00:13:53.550 --> 00:13:58.359 trevorbutterworth: let's just maybe just look ahead the next slide so that you can see 99 00:13:59.460 --> 00:14:03.349 Helen Garneau: or accesses the invitation or something. 100 00:14:28.010 --> 00:14:44.180 Keela Shatzkin: I think the second bullet in the gray box needs to be clarified. The patient holds their health data meaning they have control over whom they share it, with whom they share it. It doesn't, really. 101 00:14:44.760 --> 00:14:49.580 Keela Shatzkin: There's no that that statement about consent is a little confusingly worded. 102 00:14:50.850 --> 00:14:53.659 Keela Shatzkin: I would get rid of the rest of that. Thank you. 103 00:14:55.350 --> 00:15:00.080 trevorbutterworth: Okay. So just knowing what comes do you want to make? 104 00:15:02.620 --> 00:15:08.669 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): I I see. What I want to make sure is is that somebody the visual here is more important than the 105 00:15:08.930 --> 00:15:12.690 trevorbutterworth: you know that they know. Oh, I'm going to use the phone to scan this QR code. 106 00:15:14.790 --> 00:15:17.110 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): Maybe. the patient. 107 00:15:17.220 --> 00:15:25.249 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): I like Helen's language. The patient accepts the invitation 108 00:15:25.860 --> 00:15:27.689 Keela Shatzkin: with their mobile device 109 00:15:30.580 --> 00:15:34.320 Keela Shatzkin: because you called it an invitation in the step immediately. Prior. 110 00:15:38.010 --> 00:15:40.850 trevorbutterworth: Well, no, that's the that's already happening here. 111 00:15:41.210 --> 00:15:45.679 trevorbutterworth: Oh, well, yeah, I guess that that that's the point of that visual right 112 00:15:46.270 --> 00:15:49.870 Mike Ebert (Indicio): patient connects to the system using a QR code 113 00:15:56.360 --> 00:15:57.370 Keela Shatzkin: or link 114 00:16:00.130 --> 00:16:02.720 Mike Ebert (Indicio): with their mobile device. It's a QR code. 115 00:16:04.940 --> 00:16:08.909 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): You couldn't email them something they'd have to scan it. 116 00:16:09.530 --> 00:16:11.500 trevorbutterworth: We just add the other the 117 00:16:11.960 --> 00:16:14.940 Mike Ebert (Indicio): at the moment. If you're using a mobile device. 118 00:16:15.050 --> 00:16:20.339 Mike Ebert (Indicio): there are no mobile wallet applications that I know of 119 00:16:20.480 --> 00:16:24.120 Mike Ebert (Indicio): that can use the link to establish the connection. 120 00:16:25.620 --> 00:16:30.010 Mike Ebert (Indicio): They're coming, but they can't yet. So you have to use the QR code. 121 00:16:31.810 --> 00:16:36.289 trevorbutterworth: Should we put something that in the 122 00:16:36.460 --> 00:16:40.459 trevorbutterworth: Should we say something to the effect of what you've just said is in development? 123 00:16:41.180 --> 00:16:46.919 Keela Shatzkin: No, I don't think we should put that in here I what we could maybe do is just take or link out of that 124 00:16:47.470 --> 00:16:49.370 Keela Shatzkin: first word. 125 00:16:49.590 --> 00:16:51.309 Keela Shatzkin: The first text blob. 126 00:16:53.520 --> 00:16:58.680 Keela Shatzkin: So it just says, a QR. Code not, or a link. 127 00:16:59.980 --> 00:17:01.099 trevorbutterworth: Who else? 128 00:17:04.790 --> 00:17:12.359 Mike Ebert (Indicio): So accepting the invitation, is connecting to the system? Since we could, we should keep one or the other. But it's kind of redundant at the moment. 129 00:17:12.589 --> 00:17:13.450 trevorbutterworth: Okay. 130 00:17:15.710 --> 00:17:16.940 Keela Shatzkin: thanks, Trevor. 131 00:17:17.430 --> 00:17:22.030 Mike Ebert (Indicio): You're very patient with all of us. 132 00:17:22.710 --> 00:17:24.119 trevorbutterworth: This is 133 00:17:28.770 --> 00:17:32.100 trevorbutterworth: okay. That has to be changed. 134 00:17:35.240 --> 00:17:40.709 trevorbutterworth: I don't really like. I'm not loving the design of this page. To be honest, it's a bit of a mess. 135 00:17:40.810 --> 00:17:56.389 Keela Shatzkin: I will let you work your magic. I think. One question I have in that same gray box is sorry I haven't moved past that one yet, but the first one, is it without needing to, or it's without writing any data about this credential. 136 00:17:56.500 --> 00:18:06.280 Keela Shatzkin: And it's they do have to write data about the credential. but not the details. Needing to makes it sound like it's optional 137 00:18:08.760 --> 00:18:12.520 Mike Ebert (Indicio): without writing any data seems just fine. 138 00:18:24.970 --> 00:18:27.450 trevorbutterworth: is about the credential vague. 139 00:18:29.600 --> 00:18:36.840 Keela Shatzkin: Without writing any health data about this credential to the ledger. How about that writing without writing any credential data. 140 00:18:41.800 --> 00:18:46.369 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): Excellent. Yeah. I think you can also take out the words. And without from that sentence 141 00:18:49.700 --> 00:18:51.879 Mike Ebert (Indicio): without just the and 142 00:18:56.220 --> 00:18:57.690 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): oh, oh, sorry. Yeah. Yeah. 143 00:19:18.370 --> 00:19:26.120 Mike Ebert (Indicio): Their numbers in here. 5 and 6. I know. yeah, that would be that'd be removed. Okay, just making sure. 144 00:19:26.860 --> 00:19:30.379 Mike Ebert (Indicio): like, either. Got a number of them all or not number them all. Yep. 145 00:19:30.510 --> 00:19:31.220 Mike Ebert (Indicio): yep. 146 00:19:33.050 --> 00:19:34.779 trevorbutterworth: I'll fix these. 147 00:19:43.860 --> 00:19:46.230 Keela Shatzkin: I think the rest of this is okay. 148 00:19:52.090 --> 00:19:56.909 Mike Ebert (Indicio): Next is good good luck with figuring out how to range the items. 149 00:19:57.250 --> 00:19:59.759 trevorbutterworth: Yeah, yeah, no. It's a bit of a mess. 150 00:20:01.090 --> 00:20:04.099 trevorbutterworth: Okay, presenting and verifying a credential. 151 00:20:27.980 --> 00:20:32.280 the agent software generates a unique encrypted link for this interaction. 152 00:20:32.560 --> 00:20:38.669 Mike Ebert (Indicio): can we say, connection? Yeah, okay. 153 00:20:40.490 --> 00:20:49.219 Keela Shatzkin: this would be a point where you could mention cons consent again, right? The patient chooses. They chose to do this. 154 00:20:49.630 --> 00:20:51.489 Keela Shatzkin: so consent is implied. 155 00:20:55.380 --> 00:21:01.439 Keela Shatzkin: I don't, doesn't quite fit in nicely word wise, but that is where you could mention it again if you wanted to. 156 00:21:17.110 --> 00:21:22.960 Mike Ebert (Indicio): One way to save some space if we want to, is the wallets are doing 157 00:21:24.170 --> 00:21:28.750 Mike Ebert (Indicio): biometric binding at the moment. 158 00:21:32.200 --> 00:21:33.330 trevorbutterworth: Hmm. 159 00:21:35.120 --> 00:21:42.200 trevorbutterworth: I I I just I. I'm okay. So devil's advocate, you leave that out. People will immediately jump to. 160 00:21:43.130 --> 00:21:47.470 trevorbutterworth: What if? What if somebody else takes my wallet takes my phone. 161 00:21:48.890 --> 00:21:53.760 trevorbutterworth: So even though I mean, how long away is biometric binding. 162 00:21:57.660 --> 00:21:58.850 Mike Ebert (Indicio): So 163 00:22:00.850 --> 00:22:03.150 Mike Ebert (Indicio): the app is protected by 164 00:22:03.530 --> 00:22:07.489 Mike Ebert (Indicio): your access to the device. In general. 165 00:22:07.640 --> 00:22:13.749 Mike Ebert (Indicio): there's not an additional layer that keeps you from accessing the application. If you were to access the whole phone 166 00:22:14.170 --> 00:22:17.190 Mike Ebert (Indicio): and the timing for that is 167 00:22:17.380 --> 00:22:25.310 Mike Ebert (Indicio): So on the roadmap with an indeterminate point in the future. Nobody knows when it shows up on the roadmap. Exactly. 168 00:22:25.420 --> 00:22:27.470 trevorbutterworth: Hey, Keeler, what do you think? 169 00:22:28.570 --> 00:22:33.040 Mike Ebert (Indicio): I think it's okay. If I would, I would be inclined to leave it. 170 00:22:33.540 --> 00:22:35.339 Keela Shatzkin: Maybe you say 171 00:22:35.380 --> 00:22:44.729 Keela Shatzkin: I mean, it's more words, but you could put in it in parentheses and say, preferably through biometric binding. 172 00:22:52.080 --> 00:23:02.659 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): Say, maybe that might be kind of an important feature, because if we're trying to, you know, get people, Excited to, you know. 173 00:23:02.730 --> 00:23:04.899 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): use and adopt this technology. 174 00:23:05.010 --> 00:23:16.830 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): Everything we can do to throw blankets of comfort and security on them will be a good thing unless we have. I agree with you, Steve, unless we have somewhere else to talk about this. 175 00:23:17.540 --> 00:23:28.040 Keela Shatzkin: because it doesn't have to be here. This is a procedural definition of how things are working. It's like a. It is a kind of random place to mention biometric binding. 176 00:23:29.150 --> 00:23:37.730 Mike Ebert (Indicio): That's not a bad idea to move it. If there's another place for it. 177 00:23:37.930 --> 00:23:44.249 Keela Shatzkin: If we have somewhere else where we're talking about the app and the holder, we can make reference to biometric binding. 178 00:23:45.520 --> 00:23:47.420 Yeah. agreed. 179 00:23:47.840 --> 00:23:50.400 trevorbutterworth: So where do you want to do biometric binding? 180 00:23:50.730 --> 00:23:55.539 Keela Shatzkin: It's a great question. Let me make a note in our meeting notes, so that we know what to mention it 181 00:24:04.950 --> 00:24:07.800 Keela Shatzkin: not in the not on this slide? Is the answer, Trevor. 182 00:24:07.950 --> 00:24:08.850 trevorbutterworth: Right? 183 00:24:10.300 --> 00:24:12.249 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): The I mean. Well. 184 00:24:13.030 --> 00:24:17.810 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): we do talk here about, you know, unique encrypted connection. 185 00:24:21.580 --> 00:24:26.109 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): It it does kind of fit here, maybe, in my opinion. 186 00:24:29.230 --> 00:24:32.900 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): and it might not hurt to have it in multiple places. I know it is kind of 187 00:24:33.640 --> 00:24:39.429 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): like a a detail, but sometimes details matter, you know. I don't know. 188 00:24:42.030 --> 00:24:56.349 Helen Garneau: I would also say that this slide talks about everything after the download, the open, that the setup. The wall set up the access like all that. It's just how the credential works, as you know. So we could explain and expand on 189 00:24:56.440 --> 00:25:08.649 Helen Garneau: where you get your wallet, and how you download it, how you set it up, and what needs to be in there, and what the standards are, and how you've been how you open it with your face and blah blah blah. But like, I think that's like the step before what this diagram is showing. 190 00:25:10.900 --> 00:25:15.449 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): Yeah, I think I I think I personally vote to put it back in. 191 00:25:16.010 --> 00:25:29.559 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): I I see 2 reasons why not to, because maybe we could say it doesn't fit here, and obviously the features not ready yet. But you know, if this slide is, how do you prevent present and verify credential? 192 00:25:30.090 --> 00:25:34.420 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): We're gonna want to make sure people feel reassured that that's a secure process. 193 00:25:36.330 --> 00:25:46.679 Keela Shatzkin: Yeah, but we have. We should mention it somewhere else. I think we table the subject. I've made a note we should go back holistically through and talk about biometric binding in all of the places we should talk about it. 194 00:25:47.410 --> 00:25:51.399 Keela Shatzkin: And let's So so I've earmarked that 195 00:25:51.450 --> 00:25:53.780 Keela Shatzkin: maybe it gets back here. But let's 196 00:25:53.840 --> 00:25:59.940 Keela Shatzkin: table biometric finding for a minute and continue through the text review. If that's okay. 197 00:26:00.450 --> 00:26:04.960 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): we have a couple of more pages, and we maybe have time to come back to this discussion. 198 00:26:39.540 --> 00:26:43.200 Keela Shatzkin: I think we can move on if there's no other comments on this slide at the moment. 199 00:26:43.950 --> 00:26:44.610 Yeah. 200 00:26:49.530 --> 00:26:53.550 trevorbutterworth: okay, so this is just a page where they can go and watch a demonstration. 201 00:26:54.590 --> 00:26:55.390 Keela Shatzkin: Okay. 202 00:26:57.800 --> 00:26:59.770 trevorbutterworth: applications and health care. 203 00:26:59.830 --> 00:27:05.909 trevorbutterworth: Now, the question is, do, how? How, how, how expensive do we want to be on this? 204 00:27:12.850 --> 00:27:16.500 Keela Shatzkin: I think we want 205 00:27:16.730 --> 00:27:19.920 Keela Shatzkin: tangible. relatable 206 00:27:20.540 --> 00:27:28.390 Keela Shatzkin: bullet points would be my recommendation. Can you fix the second bullet point instead of sharing it it to share it? 207 00:27:32.830 --> 00:27:41.709 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): I I I knew somebody once that said you should always boil things down to 3 bullet points, and if that's not enough, then do sub bullet points under the main 3. 208 00:27:42.920 --> 00:27:44.310 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): I don't know if that's 209 00:27:45.700 --> 00:27:49.729 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): super doable here, but it might be worth a try. And 210 00:27:50.230 --> 00:27:54.610 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): that house people 211 00:27:55.110 --> 00:28:01.000 Keela Shatzkin: under allowing patients to hold their health data. Those can all get indented 212 00:28:05.130 --> 00:28:08.840 Keela Shatzkin: because there relating to that one above him. 213 00:28:23.320 --> 00:28:26.000 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): Should that one at the top come down? 214 00:28:31.510 --> 00:28:33.409 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): I think. Maybe. Yes. 215 00:28:35.550 --> 00:28:37.700 Keela Shatzkin: So you mean under his disabilities? Yeah. 216 00:28:47.700 --> 00:28:49.770 Keela Shatzkin: I'm unclear. 217 00:28:50.640 --> 00:28:55.240 Keela Shatzkin: I'll let you finish. I'm unclear what the last bullet is trying to communicate 218 00:28:56.770 --> 00:29:01.169 trevorbutterworth: this one while Dr. Certification. 219 00:29:06.640 --> 00:29:08.700 Keela Shatzkin: provider certification 220 00:29:08.860 --> 00:29:10.820 Keela Shatzkin: and 221 00:29:15.750 --> 00:29:24.729 trevorbutterworth: because this actually was one of the found the the clarify credentials within managing doctor approval doctors? 222 00:29:25.170 --> 00:29:29.520 Keela Shatzkin: Maybe maybe we should. It's simplifying health care, provider 223 00:29:31.700 --> 00:29:34.170 Keela Shatzkin: certification and 224 00:29:34.350 --> 00:29:39.730 Keela Shatzkin: deployment requirements. Is that too specific 225 00:29:39.810 --> 00:29:46.729 Keela Shatzkin: makes it a little more clear. Okay? And then you're taking off that first first bullet. 226 00:29:47.090 --> 00:29:48.580 trevorbutterworth: Yes. Sorry. 227 00:29:49.010 --> 00:29:53.479 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): What is an Hcr on that? 228 00:29:53.720 --> 00:29:57.809 Keela Shatzkin: Definitely spell it out. 229 00:30:14.210 --> 00:30:16.030 trevorbutterworth: Anything else on this page. 230 00:30:17.100 --> 00:30:20.410 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): just one more second 231 00:30:31.520 --> 00:30:43.299 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): is the that bullet point, so that that bullet points actually 2 things. Is it the sorry? And they the first enabling. 232 00:30:44.020 --> 00:30:49.940 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): Okay, I was thinking that that one in the very last one, we're synonymous, but they're not really so. Never mind. 233 00:30:50.100 --> 00:30:53.520 Keela Shatzkin: I have one recommendation in the blurb at the top. 234 00:30:53.670 --> 00:31:00.279 trevorbutterworth: In doing this they mitigate error, fraud, removing efficiencies to that all while do we want? 235 00:31:00.520 --> 00:31:05.460 Keela Shatzkin: Could we say all, while enabling the patient 236 00:31:06.550 --> 00:31:09.050 Keela Shatzkin: to manage 237 00:31:10.010 --> 00:31:17.769 Keela Shatzkin: their data. exchange or and integrations. Something like that. So it's more on the positive side. 238 00:31:18.150 --> 00:31:22.480 Helen Garneau: I think the point, though, I'm saying, without direct integrations, and saying, like 239 00:31:22.750 --> 00:31:44.620 Helen Garneau: 2 or more offices, or companies, or providers, or whatever they don't have to do like some complex back end roadmap, you know, developing just to enable the sharing of data. So it's more about the the sharing of data between 2 entities. Not necessarily the patient themselves. 240 00:31:44.670 --> 00:31:53.700 Helen Garneau: because no like patient does that, and integration with the provider. It would be like provider to government or provider to whatever. 241 00:31:54.920 --> 00:31:55.680 Keela Shatzkin: Okay. 242 00:31:58.050 --> 00:31:59.570 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): I qualified that 243 00:31:59.880 --> 00:32:08.750 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): I have another thought real quick about this bullet list. So there's basically 3 subjects here. There's the patient, the provider. and the 244 00:32:08.990 --> 00:32:19.010 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): like. I guess health care organizations. and maybe we might want to reorganize the bullets. To be under those like. 245 00:32:19.020 --> 00:32:26.350 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): This is what we do for the patient. This is what we do for the provider. And this is what we do for healthcare organizations, or whatever 246 00:32:27.900 --> 00:32:30.199 Helen Garneau: I like that a lot. That's a great idea. 247 00:32:32.550 --> 00:32:34.460 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): So I 248 00:32:35.160 --> 00:32:37.259 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): So the main bullet would be 249 00:32:39.190 --> 00:32:40.679 Keela Shatzkin: for patients. 250 00:32:41.550 --> 00:32:42.450 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): Yeah. 251 00:32:49.190 --> 00:32:54.319 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): you could take that one. And just. but that is a bullet under 4 patients. 252 00:33:11.280 --> 00:33:21.009 Keela Shatzkin: what you could do is, get rid of enabling health care, certification for no, we need that. because that's related to the patient giving that authority 253 00:33:21.600 --> 00:33:31.070 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): you could do for patients, for providers and others for others. You know it was just right now we made it even longer. Bullet list, Steve. 254 00:33:31.700 --> 00:33:37.610 Keela Shatzkin: So in front of the next primary bullet it would be 255 00:33:37.900 --> 00:33:39.509 Keela Shatzkin: for providers. 256 00:33:50.110 --> 00:33:54.179 Keela Shatzkin: And that's just one. 257 00:33:55.110 --> 00:33:57.680 Keela Shatzkin: Yeah, it would be both of those, I would say. 258 00:34:02.390 --> 00:34:07.540 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): and the first one that starts with the word enabling also would go under providers. Right? 259 00:34:13.800 --> 00:34:14.909 Helen Garneau: Sorry. Go ahead. 260 00:34:15.620 --> 00:34:16.510 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): Yeah. Yeah. 261 00:34:19.370 --> 00:34:21.629 trevorbutterworth: Sorry. What? What? What was that? 262 00:34:22.469 --> 00:34:30.540 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): that 10, the one you just said highlighted. The first one that starts with enabling can go underneath the provider section. 263 00:34:32.199 --> 00:34:33.080 trevorbutterworth: This. 264 00:34:33.409 --> 00:34:34.139 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): yeah. 265 00:34:36.270 --> 00:34:43.960 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): that should come out of the patient part and go to the provider. And then the enable enabling mandated reporting for 266 00:34:44.110 --> 00:34:47.230 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): yeah. 267 00:34:50.290 --> 00:34:56.590 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): Or is that patient enable? No, that would definitely be for providers? 268 00:34:57.460 --> 00:35:00.530 Helen Garneau: How about the enabling compliance with the privacy rule 269 00:35:01.710 --> 00:35:04.400 Keela Shatzkin: also, probably for providers. 270 00:35:07.450 --> 00:35:10.370 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): Yeah, I agree that one should be providers too. 271 00:35:12.650 --> 00:35:16.079 Keela Shatzkin: Same with authenticating digital prescriptions would be 272 00:35:18.300 --> 00:35:20.829 Keela Shatzkin: so, both 2 of them both of those. 273 00:35:23.860 --> 00:35:37.119 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): the there is a benefit to the patient making prescriptions a little simpler and easy, like easier for them to. 274 00:35:37.830 --> 00:35:47.330 Helen Garneau: so you could add one to the top of a fourth bullet, for under patients it says, easier access to digital prescriptions or something like that. 275 00:35:51.620 --> 00:36:01.500 trevorbutterworth: What do you think? yeah, maybe if we're sticking on the enabling thread here, it would be enable. Or you're easier. 276 00:36:01.980 --> 00:36:05.820 Keela Shatzkin: yeah. 277 00:36:06.920 --> 00:36:08.320 Keela Shatzkin: access is fine. 278 00:36:18.870 --> 00:36:19.890 Keela Shatzkin: That's fine. 279 00:36:22.680 --> 00:36:24.100 Keela Shatzkin: It's actually a really good one. 280 00:36:25.420 --> 00:36:27.279 Helen Garneau: is there one about? 281 00:36:28.240 --> 00:36:41.779 Helen Garneau: Well, maybe it's allowing patient patients to hold their health data and provide consent. But like moving providers like, if you see a new new or getting, you know, if you get a second opinion or something like that, like you have your data with you, you could. Just. It's like quicker. 282 00:36:42.070 --> 00:36:47.779 Helen Garneau: Third. Second opinions are. I don't know. I don't know exactly what I'm trying to say, but just like 283 00:36:48.750 --> 00:36:59.450 Helen Garneau: allowing the patient. The problem set is the annoying having to fill out a bunch of paperwork every time every time you see a new provider. And so this would 284 00:36:59.800 --> 00:37:04.670 Helen Garneau: facilitate easier access to new providers or something like that. 285 00:37:04.930 --> 00:37:11.510 Keela Shatzkin: Yeah, I would say, simplifies data coordination across care teams. 286 00:37:13.320 --> 00:37:19.900 Helen Garneau: Yeah, that's it. And that is for the patient and the provider in theory. But 287 00:37:29.110 --> 00:37:31.700 I think this is a pretty solid list 288 00:37:32.230 --> 00:37:40.610 Helen Garneau: is there a security aspect for providers, like you know about. 289 00:37:41.190 --> 00:37:53.259 Helen Garneau: I don't know. Security against hacking or I don't know if there's like or 0 trust something access to health data. Should we bring in 0 trust here for potentially, Trevor. 290 00:37:53.400 --> 00:37:58.520 trevorbutterworth: I don't think the provider particularly cares about that. 291 00:38:00.750 --> 00:38:04.300 Helen Garneau: like hospitals do. Don't they? Like they care about 292 00:38:05.300 --> 00:38:12.300 Helen Garneau: you? Got? We got a fast few bullets for them to consider. 293 00:38:22.220 --> 00:38:24.939 Keela Shatzkin: so none of this should have really changed. Right? 294 00:38:25.130 --> 00:38:32.110 trevorbutterworth: it's it's I think there's been definitely rewritten. If I remember correctly. 295 00:38:35.650 --> 00:38:40.039 trevorbutterworth: It's largely the same. but I think I've shortened it. 296 00:38:55.920 --> 00:38:58.070 Keela Shatzkin: I don't. Nothing standing out to me. 297 00:39:10.920 --> 00:39:27.729 Keela Shatzkin: I do have a second question. I'm adding to my parking lot list, which is, do we define derived credentials which we don't need to answer now. But we talk about it here, and that has a really important play. So I just want to make sure when we go back and do a final read through, we've got really dealt with derived credentials. 298 00:39:28.480 --> 00:39:30.640 Keela Shatzkin: Yeah, I think that when we. 299 00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:38.530 Keela Shatzkin: putting on that security, how we were talking about the biometric binding, I mean derived credentials, add a ton of value in the 300 00:39:38.930 --> 00:39:41.220 Keela Shatzkin: reducing the need to share 301 00:39:41.690 --> 00:39:43.120 Keela Shatzkin: private information 302 00:39:45.580 --> 00:39:48.770 Keela Shatzkin: to downstream participants. So well, it's table it. But 303 00:39:49.460 --> 00:39:50.400 Keela Shatzkin: for later 304 00:39:53.810 --> 00:39:56.089 Keela Shatzkin: any comments on Slide 28 from anybody. 305 00:40:05.940 --> 00:40:20.249 Helen Garneau: Does this have been mute. Oh, no, never mind it. Well, would it? The newest video cover where there is probably featured? Talking about the successful, most recent trial? 306 00:40:23.710 --> 00:40:25.860 Keela Shatzkin: Is this slide missing a header? 307 00:40:26.020 --> 00:40:29.579 trevorbutterworth: Or is this 308 00:40:30.040 --> 00:40:31.240 Keela Shatzkin: okay? Thanks. 309 00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:38.070 trevorbutterworth: I can add that. 310 00:40:39.900 --> 00:40:45.910 trevorbutterworth: well, there's 2 video there as well. One video link in the I don't know whether that goes to it or not. 311 00:40:49.790 --> 00:41:01.220 Helen Garneau: but the the most recent one with heather, though, is more Dtc. Focused than health focused 312 00:41:02.770 --> 00:41:03.880 Helen Garneau: also that 313 00:41:04.380 --> 00:41:09.860 Helen Garneau: I mean, I can take that out. Do you think the minister should come out? 314 00:41:10.260 --> 00:41:30.600 trevorbutterworth: Well, it's kind of disingenuous because it it applies to the Dtc. And not the well, I mean, it does end on the I do end on the continue to collaborate. In March 2,023, they successfully demonstrate a devil. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. So the right for more details. So I can put the I could put the video in there. That wouldn't be a problem. 315 00:41:30.890 --> 00:41:39.879 Helen Garneau: Yeah, there's a couple. There's 2 new videos, actually. So it might lay out nicely. Just that I need those. But yeah. So I'll I'll send those links to you 316 00:41:41.380 --> 00:41:51.400 trevorbutterworth: So just one thing to, unless I I'm just skipped ahead. But One of Heather's comments was that we don't that I didn't put a roadmap. What's the roadmap? 317 00:41:51.450 --> 00:41:54.119 trevorbutterworth: So read that with that in mind. 318 00:41:55.260 --> 00:41:57.209 trevorbutterworth: do we need a roadmap slide? 319 00:42:03.150 --> 00:42:11.510 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): I find roadmap's interesting. We think a lot of people do The hard part about it is, you know, we we kind of have to think. 320 00:42:11.810 --> 00:42:17.489 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): Do we want this document to be accurate for a specific snapshot in time 321 00:42:17.590 --> 00:42:25.770 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): and then become outdated. As the you know, roadmap changes and evolves, and it's done, you know. 322 00:42:26.490 --> 00:42:29.569 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): so we can try and keep things that are. 323 00:42:30.780 --> 00:42:33.540 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): I don't know just to thought we could try, and, you know. 324 00:42:35.550 --> 00:42:39.979 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): avoid talking about what features it currently has or will have. 325 00:42:42.300 --> 00:42:44.980 Steve Davis (Shatzkin Systems): But I guess to some extent we have to do some of that. 326 00:42:45.400 --> 00:42:47.200 Helen Garneau: Well, I wonder if this this 327 00:42:47.970 --> 00:43:11.799 Helen Garneau: 5 could be turned into a timeline, and then we could say, you know, cardiac develop, you know, basically pull out all this information out in this big brick of text in that kind of left hand column, turn it into a timeline, and then at the end of the timeline, have, like, you know, future considerations include. And then we could like give bullet points of like items that we want to figure out like biometric binding. And 328 00:43:11.910 --> 00:43:22.710 Helen Garneau: you know, Link, sharing, or whatever, like all the other stuff that we're, you know we have we have in mind, and here's like the work ahead. But we're not like super 329 00:43:23.340 --> 00:43:27.970 Helen Garneau: like tying ourselves to an exact time of when that's going to happen. It's just the future. 330 00:43:28.520 --> 00:43:46.759 Keela Shatzkin: I like that idea, Helen. I would be very cautious of us pinning down anything too specific on this slide, and it or in a roadmap, because it's you know we we're still working that out. There's to your point some very clear things like we just mentioned biometric binding. Great example. 331 00:43:46.850 --> 00:43:49.220 Keela Shatzkin: but 332 00:43:49.310 --> 00:43:56.020 Keela Shatzkin: I don't know that there it would have to be really thoughtful about what goes on that timeline or roadmap. 333 00:43:58.150 --> 00:44:17.669 Helen Garneau: Yeah, just enough to get people excited, that to see that there is a momentum behind the project, and that we are thinking about next steps and making it better and faster and make it jump higher. And all those good things like it's going to be. It's going to have more in it in the future, like you should be a part of this community. Because we're doing really. Yeah, we have 334 00:44:17.930 --> 00:44:26.819 Helen Garneau: a lot of really cool. Go ahead of us. but yeah, not being super specific 335 00:44:27.390 --> 00:44:34.990 Keela Shatzkin: can show some of that without having to do too much into the like. What happens next. You know, it can be like dot dot dot. 336 00:44:37.400 --> 00:44:46.930 trevorbutterworth: So I didn't put the the slide. That's currently in the information that's currently in the white paper which which focuses on. 337 00:44:47.320 --> 00:44:50.700 trevorbutterworth: I think drug testing and 338 00:44:51.550 --> 00:44:58.110 trevorbutterworth: So I don't know. I I for whatever reason I I just didn't see that slide as being very compelling 339 00:44:58.190 --> 00:45:09.360 trevorbutterworth: or out of date. So maybe we want to look at that and extract what extract from that? What needs to be kept? 340 00:45:14.560 --> 00:45:17.280 Helen Garneau: Yeah, I think those those 341 00:45:17.440 --> 00:45:30.880 Helen Garneau: so expanded used cases would absolutely be something that would be on like towards the end of the dollar line on the timeline without specifics, but again, encouraging people to join and be a part of the the growth of the project for sure. 342 00:45:43.720 --> 00:45:45.879 Helen Garneau: Okay, so next steps 343 00:45:46.680 --> 00:45:54.699 Helen Garneau: in the, this is something that we've been talking a lot about in the areas. Marketing, working group is how to get 344 00:45:54.710 --> 00:46:10.819 Helen Garneau: how to lower the vari of entry for people to get involved with the project, how to adopt it, how to participate, and they all the stuff. So I think, you know, want to use part of how to get started could be its own page, and then list all the things that you can like. Make it like this is its own page. 345 00:46:10.820 --> 00:46:30.420 Helen Garneau: Here's all the things you can do. Here's where to start. Here's how to ask questions. here's when to show up. Here's our meeting, timeline. Here's the links like, put every like the whole kitchen sink in there. So there's no doubt in someone's mind that they are include. They are welcome to be a part of the community and uses use this code base. 346 00:46:31.840 --> 00:46:37.489 trevorbutterworth: I think that's a good idea. Helen. Do you want to put that together? 347 00:46:37.530 --> 00:46:55.120 Helen Garneau: No, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I'll send it. I'll I'll put it in the doc and send it to you, and you can make the page and make it pretty. But yeah, I'll put I can. I can do that, and I'll send it to Kila as well keel and other folks to get feedback to make sure that I'm correct, and where people like 348 00:46:55.120 --> 00:47:11.309 Helen Garneau: go to download the code or whatever they need to do to adopt it. but yeah, like putting putting the whole kitchen sink and how to use it. That's like the whole point of the project. Right? Yeah, it's an excellent point, and I think it'll be a lot stronger for having that. 349 00:47:13.090 --> 00:47:14.690 Helen Garneau: Yep, I'll get that going. 350 00:47:15.340 --> 00:47:21.980 trevorbutterworth: So we still have to, we we because I didn't dwell so deeply on the 351 00:47:22.320 --> 00:47:23.680 trevorbutterworth: Aruba 352 00:47:24.220 --> 00:47:29.560 trevorbutterworth: What happened in a ruba, as you know that that 353 00:47:29.650 --> 00:47:36.040 trevorbutterworth: I, you know, instead of it's it it because the focus of this version of the Cardi white paper is really 354 00:47:36.250 --> 00:47:52.200 trevorbutterworth: the ecosystem that you can use for sharing data rather than his. What we did in a rubber derivative, the the I, the. There's really no mention of derivative content credential in this process. So how do we want to deal with that? 355 00:47:58.150 --> 00:48:10.359 trevorbutterworth: Why, in killing you from from a a health data perspective, why is mentioning it? A derivative, credential, really important. 356 00:48:10.470 --> 00:48:18.999 Keela Shatzkin: You know, we're trying th. There's a flavor of privacy and security that is like the undercurrent of why this is valuable. 357 00:48:19.080 --> 00:48:22.939 Keela Shatzkin: The concept of a derivative, derivative, credential, as you can 358 00:48:23.230 --> 00:48:26.000 Keela Shatzkin: share your health data 359 00:48:26.050 --> 00:48:28.080 Keela Shatzkin: only once. 360 00:48:28.400 --> 00:48:30.490 Keela Shatzkin: and then it. 361 00:48:30.540 --> 00:48:39.710 Keela Shatzkin: you just can say, yes, I'm good. Right? So, for example, you know, if we're talking about you sports and their health data. 362 00:48:40.020 --> 00:48:46.909 Keela Shatzkin: they should be sharing their that they're eligible to play, and all of their personal information with 363 00:48:46.970 --> 00:49:05.960 Keela Shatzkin: the club once it gets validated, and then the coaches are not carrying around birth certificates, and, like medical records with them to tournaments, they can just carry around the stuff that says look! They're totally eligible. They met all their criteria. Everything's good to go. The club has all of that, and validated it. 364 00:49:07.000 --> 00:49:08.940 Keela Shatzkin: For like registration at 365 00:49:09.160 --> 00:49:17.519 Keela Shatzkin: competitive events or things things like that right? So the fact that those derivative credentials protect the re. 366 00:49:17.830 --> 00:49:22.320 Keela Shatzkin: the redisclosure of their 367 00:49:22.510 --> 00:49:26.619 Keela Shatzkin: Ph or pi, I, I think, is valuable. 368 00:49:27.620 --> 00:49:30.509 trevorbutterworth: Okay, I'll do a separate slide on that 369 00:49:33.480 --> 00:49:38.340 trevorbutterworth: like enhancing privacy with a derivative credential 370 00:49:38.380 --> 00:49:39.570 trevorbutterworth: could be the heading. 371 00:49:40.510 --> 00:49:45.639 Keela Shatzkin: Sure. I think it's really worth mentioning. It's it's so valuable that concept. 372 00:49:47.980 --> 00:50:00.719 Keela Shatzkin: Okay? And we had put a placeholder on the one other item which was biometric binding which we should just decide. Do we need to like consistently mention it? Do we want to tackle that? 373 00:50:01.140 --> 00:50:06.889 Keela Shatzkin: And is there a home for that somewhere else about the use of the holder app. 374 00:50:13.610 --> 00:50:31.549 Keela Shatzkin: Maybe we need a slide to talk about privacy, security and looking ahead because we don't. Also, we also don't mention. For example, like some of these apps, maybe they're gonna use the Karen Alliance. You know, there are players in our community that are trying to set some standards around how some of this stuff should 375 00:50:31.660 --> 00:50:33.910 Keela Shatzkin: function I don't know if we want to. 376 00:50:33.980 --> 00:50:43.000 trevorbutterworth: So if if we add in, you say, after issuing an accepting of that. let me think about where's the best place to put. So. 377 00:50:43.080 --> 00:50:56.599 trevorbutterworth: after issuing, presenting, and verifying a credential, we have a slide for enhancing privacy with a derivative credential. enhancing security with biometrics is another slide. 378 00:50:57.340 --> 00:50:59.080 trevorbutterworth: So they would follow each other. 379 00:51:03.190 --> 00:51:05.229 Keela Shatzkin: That sounds okay to me. 380 00:51:05.300 --> 00:51:10.069 trevorbutterworth: Okay, what do we want to say about biometrics? 381 00:51:11.080 --> 00:51:15.080 trevorbutterworth: And that's a question for you, Keeler. And I think, Mike. 382 00:51:16.540 --> 00:51:25.239 Keela Shatzkin: I I think it might correct me on any points here to me. There's probably 2 points that I can think of off the top of my head. One is 383 00:51:25.440 --> 00:51:31.039 Keela Shatzkin: the biometric metric binding of the specific credential to me. 384 00:51:31.390 --> 00:51:32.590 Keela Shatzkin: so that 385 00:51:33.130 --> 00:51:44.840 Keela Shatzkin: when the person receives it they know it's specifically mine whether that's through like pictures or whatever. And the second would be the protections on the holder app. 386 00:51:45.410 --> 00:51:47.930 Keela Shatzkin: so that only the 387 00:51:48.110 --> 00:51:54.160 Keela Shatzkin: person who is authorized can do the sharing of the credentials right that it goes to the consent 388 00:51:54.710 --> 00:52:05.310 Keela Shatzkin: on who should be allowed to share the information. So it's like locking down the app itself. And then there's locking the credential to the person Mike. Did I miss anything, or you want to correct anything I said, there 389 00:52:09.540 --> 00:52:11.930 Keela Shatzkin: after you off mute. 390 00:52:12.880 --> 00:52:14.070 Mike Ebert (Indicio): So 391 00:52:14.790 --> 00:52:18.749 Mike Ebert (Indicio): no, I think that covers it. And 392 00:52:29.110 --> 00:52:32.639 Mike Ebert (Indicio): yeah, the the way. 393 00:52:33.760 --> 00:52:35.770 Mike Ebert (Indicio): That's interesting, because I don't know 394 00:52:36.110 --> 00:52:38.259 Mike Ebert (Indicio): like we don't have 395 00:52:38.860 --> 00:52:51.499 Keela Shatzkin: I don't think either of them are in the cardiac platform at the moment like 396 00:52:52.000 --> 00:52:54.700 Keela Shatzkin: credential binding with biometric. 397 00:52:55.040 --> 00:52:57.190 Keela Shatzkin: So we discussed that in previous 398 00:52:57.880 --> 00:53:00.600 sharing sessions. 399 00:53:00.970 --> 00:53:08.550 Keela Shatzkin: so that's definitely come up. I agree they're both not available today. But again, it doesn't mean that it's not important to be talking about in the community 400 00:53:10.300 --> 00:53:12.729 Mike Ebert (Indicio): and sort of best practices. 401 00:53:14.670 --> 00:53:19.459 Mike Ebert (Indicio): You could say, if you're careful with the language, you could say that 402 00:53:20.470 --> 00:53:22.799 Mike Ebert (Indicio): The system, you know. 403 00:53:23.210 --> 00:53:24.590 Mike Ebert (Indicio): is 404 00:53:25.060 --> 00:53:36.780 Mike Ebert (Indicio): architected or built or structured in a way that they could support or would support finding. But we have to say, it's a feature that's not widely supported yet. Something like that. 405 00:53:42.080 --> 00:53:44.259 Keela Shatzkin: Does that give you enough to work with Trevor? 406 00:53:44.910 --> 00:53:51.739 trevorbutterworth: Not a whole lot. But yeah, I'll do something. It's gonna be a a very lot of white space. 407 00:53:52.140 --> 00:54:08.899 Keela Shatzkin: yeah. And so I that's why I don't know if they may. Maybe it is one slide which is, you know, security and privacy, best practices or something. And you put we put both of them on the same side. That's totally feasible as well. They're not unrelated in that. They're tied to 408 00:54:09.050 --> 00:54:12.769 Keela Shatzkin: tightening the system. 409 00:54:13.110 --> 00:54:14.760 Mike Ebert (Indicio): Yeah. 410 00:54:15.070 --> 00:54:23.150 Mike Ebert (Indicio): you're having a slide on security and privacy best practices. There are a bunch of other ones that can be pulled into pad out the slide. 411 00:54:23.530 --> 00:54:24.489 Keela Shatzkin: That is true. 412 00:54:25.510 --> 00:54:27.280 Mike Ebert (Indicio): like Karen Alliance. 413 00:54:27.930 --> 00:54:35.630 trevorbutterworth: If you want to do that, I I'm volunteering you, Keeler, to write that additional text. 414 00:54:37.010 --> 00:54:37.890 Keela Shatzkin: Okay. 415 00:54:38.040 --> 00:54:43.890 Keela Shatzkin: I can put some my thoughts. I can put some thoughts into words. And send that your way. 416 00:54:47.440 --> 00:54:53.570 Keela Shatzkin: It's easier to words something that exists. So I'm sure we'll want to review it again. Go ahead, Helen. 417 00:54:54.020 --> 00:54:59.089 Helen Garneau: Oh, I was just gonna say you could also, you know. Put an eye catching little diagram of like 418 00:54:59.780 --> 00:55:09.670 Helen Garneau: the I on for face, scanning 419 00:55:09.760 --> 00:55:17.950 Helen Garneau: a term that some readers understand. But if we show them like it's scanning your face or something, you know. I don't know, like 420 00:55:18.010 --> 00:55:20.450 Helen Garneau: you can use a diagram to use it as well. 421 00:55:24.720 --> 00:55:35.649 trevorbutterworth: I expect anybody who gets through this to this point. To to this point we will be reasonably familiar with like this. This is, this is a narrative document for health. Info nodes. 422 00:55:39.220 --> 00:55:40.270 Keela Shatzkin: Very true. 423 00:55:42.160 --> 00:56:02.259 Keela Shatzkin: Okay, so we have met it through our document. We have 2 things that we are going to take offline, biobedric binding, derivative credentials and potentially security. That's 3 things. I'm sorry. 4 things time, creation of timeline and roadmap timeline. 424 00:56:02.920 --> 00:56:04.620 Keela Shatzkin: Thank you. 425 00:56:06.800 --> 00:56:07.670 Okay. 426 00:56:07.940 --> 00:56:14.299 trevorbutterworth: And I will try and circulate all of these. Well before the next meeting, so that 427 00:56:14.350 --> 00:56:16.259 trevorbutterworth: there's plenty of time 428 00:56:18.270 --> 00:56:22.349 trevorbutterworth: that they can be discussed before we get to the 429 00:56:23.470 --> 00:56:32.849 Keela Shatzkin: okay. Excellent, all right, wonderful. Well, we. So we will do our best to move on these things between meetings. And hopefully. 430 00:56:33.100 --> 00:56:37.379 Keela Shatzkin: we can just review the Delta in our in a future discussion. 431 00:56:41.330 --> 00:56:44.520 Keela Shatzkin: Any other comments. 432 00:56:51.860 --> 00:56:59.789 Keela Shatzkin: Okay, well, then, mission accomplished, we'll give everybody a couple of minutes between now and their next meeting. and we will talk to you in 2 weeks. 433 00:57:02.640 --> 00:57:05.190 Mike Ebert (Indicio): Thank you. 434 00:57:05.520 --> 00:57:06.380 Keela Shatzkin: Bye.