WEBVTT 1 00:02:44.080 --> 00:02:46.779 Sean Bohan (Hyperledger): Hey, Tim? Hey, Tracy? 2 00:02:48.340 --> 00:02:51.829 Sean Bohan (Hyperledger): I have to leave and come back in because I'm logged in the wrong account. I'll be right back. 3 00:02:52.830 --> 00:02:53.950 Tim Spring: Sounds good. 4 00:02:54.820 --> 00:02:58.800 Sean Bohan (Hyperledger): me make sure. Well, let me make sure Tim's the before I do that. 5 00:04:50.650 --> 00:04:56.830 Sean Bohan (Hyperledger): Right. Apologies for being in the wrong zoom room with the wrong zoom address let me get 6 00:04:59.450 --> 00:05:02.529 Sean Bohan (Hyperledger): Youtube turned on, and then we will get going. 7 00:05:03.990 --> 00:05:13.269 Tim Spring: That's good. We are still waiting on who should be our presenter today as well. So a couple of minutes to trickle in here and 8 00:05:14.110 --> 00:05:16.860 Sean Bohan (Hyperledger): no worries just because 9 00:05:17.490 --> 00:05:24.930 Sean Bohan (Hyperledger): and we'll give it to fain and a few other folks a chance to join us. I am in another zoom room just in case 10 00:05:26.240 --> 00:05:29.779 Sean Bohan (Hyperledger): somebody uses the old link. So we got that going 11 00:05:29.850 --> 00:05:33.520 Sean Bohan (Hyperledger): awesome. Thank you for doing that. No worries, no worries. 12 00:05:39.430 --> 00:06:02.200 Sean Bohan (Hyperledger): and, Tim, just so, you know, once we kick it off I'll trim out the first 4, 3, or 4 min of the recording. So we don't have dead air. And no one has to listen to my voice talking about turning my Youtube and stuff. So I appreciate that it is being streamed to the Hyper Ledger Youtube account. it'll be available. It's available right now, but it's also 13 00:06:03.190 --> 00:06:10.860 Sean Bohan (Hyperledger): will be available under the identity playlist that we have. It's all right. alright perfect, Tim. 14 00:06:11.140 --> 00:06:14.520 Sean Bohan (Hyperledger): Tim. You got it. I'm just going to mute and keep an eye on the other room. 15 00:06:15.280 --> 00:06:30.059 Tim Spring: Sounds good. well, yeah, it is at 8 0 5. So we'll go ahead and get started here today. welcome everyone. This is the identity Special interest group at Hyper Ledger. and today we have 16 00:06:30.550 --> 00:06:37.079 Tim Spring: a pretty exciting presentation from Stefan for you. it's defended. I pronounce your name correctly. There. 17 00:06:37.800 --> 00:06:44.579 Stephane MOUY: not quite well. That's my first name, Stefan, and my last name is we Mo. Y. 18 00:06:45.920 --> 00:06:52.359 Stephane MOUY: Don't worry. Alright awesome. Well, yeah, he's here to share with us a little bit about 19 00:06:52.540 --> 00:06:56.930 Tim Spring: E, I das 2 and the European Wallet initiative. 20 00:06:57.050 --> 00:07:02.800 Tim Spring: And yeah. And before that we have a quick summary of some other working group sesses. So 21 00:07:02.810 --> 00:07:07.560 Tim Spring: I'm gonna go ahead and share my screen so we can do a quick rundown of what everyone's been up to. 22 00:07:12.280 --> 00:07:15.049 Tim Spring: I just confirm that you guys can see my screen 23 00:07:16.590 --> 00:07:17.850 Sean Bohan (Hyperledger): looking good, too 24 00:07:18.510 --> 00:07:20.259 Tim Spring: awesome. Thank you. 25 00:07:20.400 --> 00:07:33.060 Tim Spring: So to start off with just a few announcements. we have some upcoming speakers on July 20, seventh and August tenth. So come back. If these presentations look interesting to you. 26 00:07:33.140 --> 00:07:37.439 Tim Spring: there's also a call for papers open for 27 00:07:37.970 --> 00:07:42.290 Tim Spring: yeah, spring or open looks like. 28 00:07:43.790 --> 00:07:57.770 Tim Spring: And then we have a meeting on running hyper ledger areas in the browser with a non credits on July eighteenth. So I believe you can just sign up and join right here to this link 29 00:07:58.910 --> 00:08:11.990 Tim Spring: getting into some working group updates. we have the Hyper Ledger Indie contributors working group met on the Fourth. was anyone able to attend this meeting that would like to give us a quick summary. 30 00:08:19.410 --> 00:08:24.989 Tim Spring: All right. it looks like they just held their indie summit, and they were doing a quick recap on how all that went. 31 00:08:25.490 --> 00:08:33.499 Tim Spring: The Aries working group met on the twelfth. was anyone able to attend the this session? 32 00:08:39.850 --> 00:08:51.430 Tim Spring: Alright, yeah, it looks like they were looking at some good peer and community coordinated. updates there. And if you'd like more information all of these links will take you there. Most recent activity. 33 00:08:51.670 --> 00:08:54.249 Tim Spring: The Aries bifold group 34 00:08:54.830 --> 00:08:59.269 Tim Spring: you met on the fourth, was anyone able to attend this session? 35 00:09:04.400 --> 00:09:09.980 Tim Spring: All right. Well, yeah, that looks like they're just doing some bifold updates 36 00:09:10.530 --> 00:09:18.160 Tim Spring: Aries cloud is in python met on the eleventh. Are there any updates from anyone who attended this meeting? 37 00:09:23.580 --> 00:09:26.789 Tim Spring: Okay, it looks like they're working on. Some did peer stuff 38 00:09:27.680 --> 00:09:30.709 Tim Spring: and move off from there 39 00:09:31.820 --> 00:09:37.039 Tim Spring: areas. Framework Javascript met on the sixth. was anyone able to attend this session. 40 00:09:37.460 --> 00:09:45.370 Sean Bohan (Hyperledger): Tim, this is Shawn. I was not able to attend the session, but on Tuesday we had a pretty great workshop with Ariel 41 00:09:45.520 --> 00:10:03.270 Sean Bohan (Hyperledger): Karim and Baron from the area's framework, Javascript team showing off 0 point 4.0. The new release as well as how to use credentials with areas framework Javascript, how it fits into the overall ecosystem. that is also on Youtube. If anyone would like to watch it, they did a a really great job 42 00:10:03.320 --> 00:10:20.409 Sean Bohan (Hyperledger): of sharing some of the hard work that's got into that community recently, and I was unable to mute fast enough, but occupy was recently mentioned. there's an organization called Lacy, which is announced the release of its wallet. that uses occupy uses and on credits. I believe they're using. 43 00:10:20.760 --> 00:10:29.559 Sean Bohan (Hyperledger): indeed, through id union. And so that that came out recently, and we're reaching out to them to do a a blog post to share some of their experience. Sorry. 44 00:10:29.870 --> 00:10:32.889 Tim Spring: all right. No, very cool. Thank you for sharing 45 00:10:34.570 --> 00:10:39.099 Tim Spring: so awesome. I think that covers 46 00:10:39.270 --> 00:10:44.030 Tim Spring: Harry's stuff. That's not recent 47 00:10:47.260 --> 00:10:56.039 Tim Spring: meeting. I do realize it's some are not. Everyone is meeting Super regularly 48 00:10:56.230 --> 00:11:00.050 Tim Spring: as they used to. I think we've covered those 49 00:11:05.450 --> 00:11:12.179 Tim Spring: alright. I think that at least, according to my list concludes any updates unless anyone else has anything they'd like to share. 50 00:11:16.740 --> 00:11:19.290 Tim Spring: All right. So 51 00:11:19.930 --> 00:11:29.250 Tim Spring: I'm going to go ahead and hand the floor off to to find this. Is that closer? I'm sorry. I'm yeah, that's fine. Thank you. 52 00:11:29.350 --> 00:11:32.300 Stephane MOUY: Okay, I'll share my screen. 53 00:11:33.410 --> 00:11:35.719 Stephane MOUY: which one in this 54 00:11:36.320 --> 00:11:37.850 Stephane MOUY: I think this, is it? 55 00:11:39.610 --> 00:11:42.320 Stephane MOUY: Okay? Now, can you see my screen as well? 56 00:11:42.840 --> 00:11:45.180 Sean Bohan (Hyperledger): Looks good. You're looking good. 57 00:11:45.670 --> 00:11:49.970 Stephane MOUY: Okay. Well, good morning. First. 58 00:11:50.290 --> 00:11:56.119 Stephane MOUY: I'm not sure I know anyone here. in fact. I've been interacting with 59 00:11:56.990 --> 00:12:03.540 Stephane MOUY: they've been for 2 years, in fact, we used to be colleagues a long time ago. 60 00:12:04.250 --> 00:12:18.129 Stephane MOUY: anyway, and they PIN has, you know, invited me to talk to about the regulatory initiatives in your specially the one concerning digital identity. 61 00:12:18.500 --> 00:12:32.350 Stephane MOUY: although I have to say I've always been quite explicit to the in and in in that I know he's very focused on the ot and blockchain and And I said to him repeatedly, well, 62 00:12:32.440 --> 00:12:43.160 Stephane MOUY: it's very interesting. But you're gonna be disappointed because in your when it comes to digital identity, there is only any mention of of the Lt or blockchain. So 63 00:12:43.200 --> 00:12:45.679 Stephane MOUY: the way it's like, well, never mind. 64 00:12:45.780 --> 00:12:52.609 Stephane MOUY: you know, it's still interesting to know what's what's happening. So okay, anyway. So 65 00:12:52.660 --> 00:12:55.300 Stephane MOUY: as as you can see from the 66 00:12:55.480 --> 00:13:05.749 Stephane MOUY: well, from the copper page of college slide. I'm I'm going to talk a little bit about digital identities in the European regulatory environment. And it's 67 00:13:06.290 --> 00:13:17.040 Stephane MOUY: It's a certainly a major work and undergoing with the revision of the so called Eidas. regulation 68 00:13:17.120 --> 00:13:26.730 Stephane MOUY: So we are up to today. We're still living with the AI desk. One regulation, the one that it was enacted in in 2,014. 69 00:13:26.940 --> 00:13:44.110 Stephane MOUY: And these a lot of work going on trying to define a new architecture for digital identity schemes. So which is called K. I. S. 2. And at the core, that project is the digital identity. What it? So let's see a little bit. What's 70 00:13:45.610 --> 00:13:59.380 Stephane MOUY: What's happening here? so yes, as often in Europe. it's you know, as soon as that's something happening. There's a new regulatory initiative. So you can't really 71 00:13:59.560 --> 00:14:09.430 Stephane MOUY: You can't really say that. you know, the European Commission is not active in that field. It is, everybody is talking about digital identity. And there is a 72 00:14:09.880 --> 00:14:32.670 Stephane MOUY: there's a lot of movement. And and a lot of change being being implemented. So the main effort is the revised E, that's regulation. as, as mentioned earlier, we're we're still you know, living with the I. This one voted in 20 73 00:14:32.900 --> 00:14:36.759 Stephane MOUY: 14 came into effect in 2,016, 74 00:14:37.020 --> 00:14:44.310 Stephane MOUY: and and and even in 2,018, for digital identity schemes. It's a fairly imperfect construction. 75 00:14:44.430 --> 00:14:54.190 Stephane MOUY: it's based on 2 peters one is the mutual recognition of digital identity scheme, and one is the regulation for so called trust services. 76 00:14:54.300 --> 00:15:00.389 Stephane MOUY: I come to that later. But threat services are primarily electronic signature and the like. 77 00:15:00.990 --> 00:15:21.829 Stephane MOUY: it's been very positive on the Electronic trust services side, but very disappointing on the digital identity. So like. And because of that disappointment, there's been a a new proposal that has been announced nearly 2 years ago, in fact, over 2 years ago. 78 00:15:22.370 --> 00:15:32.560 Stephane MOUY: which is expected to reach the it's legislative process in the coming weeks. this school. Ei, that's 2. 79 00:15:32.890 --> 00:15:48.459 Stephane MOUY: It's not the only piece of regulation that is making reference to digital identities. I don't know if you've seen there is. there's been, literally last In the last few days there's been a digital year draft proposal 80 00:15:48.760 --> 00:16:07.250 Stephane MOUY: which was which was presented. again. much to begin regret very little mention of the Lt. But I think there is a good reason for that. It's primarily related to the fact that offline connectivity is a requirement. And 81 00:16:07.890 --> 00:16:23.819 Stephane MOUY: reconciling offline connectivity with. So it's a little bit of a challenge, maybe have different view in that And also there's a, you know, complete revamp of the European county money laundering architecture 82 00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:37.859 Stephane MOUY: with a uniform. Know your client rules, and these are centered around digital identities for a remote id perfect. So it it it all fits together in a way. 83 00:16:37.990 --> 00:16:47.770 Stephane MOUY: but there is no again. There is no direct reference to the Lt. In the I that's 2 nor in the I that one. Of course. 84 00:16:47.910 --> 00:16:59.070 Stephane MOUY: There is no explicit reason for that. It's not mentioned in the you know, in the explaining to a moment memo on them prepared for the regulation. 85 00:16:59.230 --> 00:17:11.859 Stephane MOUY: But I would say that it's not completely surprising in a European context, because, I think you have to understand that in your digital identity is viewed as the 86 00:17:11.869 --> 00:17:24.040 Stephane MOUY: You know the domain, the preserve of of Member States and the governments. I I have in Europe, at least I'm not taking that positive of you about so 87 00:17:24.170 --> 00:17:25.310 Stephane MOUY: dlt 88 00:17:25.540 --> 00:17:33.590 Stephane MOUY: However. there has. That was initially a reference on the 89 00:17:33.610 --> 00:17:45.609 Stephane MOUY: electronic trust services side to electronic leisure services, which was a sort of indirect way to recognize dlt services. 90 00:17:46.070 --> 00:17:54.029 Stephane MOUY: that was presented by the European Commission in the initial draft of the E. I dust to regulation 91 00:17:54.450 --> 00:18:08.299 Stephane MOUY: but it's been removed by it, was maintained by the European Council document, but it has been removed by the European Parliament. Now, That may seem like a convoluted 92 00:18:08.420 --> 00:18:12.650 Stephane MOUY: discussion. What you have to understand is I think 93 00:18:14.070 --> 00:18:29.410 Stephane MOUY: is that currently the ei that's draft is is is nearing. It's fine on the the Ei. That's 2 legislative processes nearing its conclusion. There's been a vote in presented by the European Commission 94 00:18:29.550 --> 00:18:45.889 Stephane MOUY: been voted by the European Council, which is the body representing the European governments. and it's also been voted by the European Parliament, but not exactly in certain terms. So there is now a sort of reconciling effort to come up with a definitive final version. 95 00:18:45.980 --> 00:18:54.010 Stephane MOUY: that will Apparently it has been done literally last week. we'll see what happens. 96 00:18:54.510 --> 00:18:58.979 Stephane MOUY: on the. So yeah, that's one 97 00:18:59.070 --> 00:19:11.249 Stephane MOUY: As you can see, it's a fairly modest construction, and it's really 2 houses, and they're same roof. so you have the electronic trust services side which is basically private sector 98 00:19:11.580 --> 00:19:25.430 Stephane MOUY: common-sided and certification processes. So you're talking about the electron for services. these signatures. Electronic sales, electronic stamps which is for messages electronic web authentications. 99 00:19:25.520 --> 00:19:31.120 Stephane MOUY: common rules, technical specification, usually that prepared by the European 100 00:19:31.470 --> 00:19:50.249 Stephane MOUY: at say, which is the European standards specification agency. they are offered by the private sector. So every company who wants to become a trust service provider can apply. It just has to be certified 101 00:19:50.310 --> 00:19:52.120 Stephane MOUY: with the common framework. 102 00:19:52.210 --> 00:20:03.880 Stephane MOUY: and one city is certified. It can offer for us services throughout the, you know, European Union. without discrimination, they have to be accepted on the same basis 103 00:20:04.970 --> 00:20:23.940 Stephane MOUY: on the Eid side. You're really talking about a completely different construction. You're really talking about. an intergovernmental recognition of of of digital identity schemes that have been notified by Member States to the European Commission. 104 00:20:23.990 --> 00:20:35.330 Stephane MOUY: so it's a voluntary framework. It has a very public sector focus. that's one of the reason why it hasn't been successful. Actually for example, the 105 00:20:35.370 --> 00:20:46.270 Stephane MOUY: when it was presented, the, the, the, the, the, the use of one of the used cases that was promoted was the Finnish State and rolling in the Spanish University. 106 00:20:46.450 --> 00:21:08.439 Stephane MOUY: and instead of doing all the paperwork by paper and by mail, he would do that. And electronically, that's fine. But you know, how often do you have to do this? I mean in your life, I mean, maybe twice, once, twice, but not more than that, usually. So it's not really worth anyway. So it not like paying electronically or anything that comes as a day occurrence. 107 00:21:08.660 --> 00:21:20.490 Stephane MOUY: another problem was that there are very few on the Eid side. There are very few common technical specifications. So member space have considerable freedom to implement digital identity schemes 108 00:21:20.650 --> 00:21:31.399 Stephane MOUY: which led to internal probability issues. so they're not exactly the same. They can't correspond, you know. They do not fit quite well one with another. 109 00:21:31.630 --> 00:21:40.340 Stephane MOUY: it's not that easy to make them work together. So intel vibrations and issues. And on top of that, it's based on A 110 00:21:40.430 --> 00:21:54.699 Stephane MOUY: and an it protocol, that is that is now. Looks quite dated. So and does not integrate mobile device usage. so quite successful on the E trust services side. 111 00:21:54.920 --> 00:21:58.440 Stephane MOUY: very disappointing on the did side. 112 00:21:58.640 --> 00:22:18.420 Stephane MOUY: But in spite of that, it it still remains a landmark regulation for digital identity. And I think the main reason is that it's the first. And if I'm not mistaken, it's still the only set of rule organizing the cross border recognition of digital identity. I don't think anywhere in the world you have anywhere, 113 00:22:18.520 --> 00:22:32.089 Stephane MOUY: a framework. a framework that says, you know, digital identity, not Coming from that country is all going to be recognized with the same value or same effect in in other countries and 114 00:22:32.890 --> 00:22:45.529 Stephane MOUY: and it also enshrines the hallway. The level of assurance concept for digital identity. It's not as, of course, it's not a unique European concept, but it's it's you know it. It was quite 115 00:22:45.560 --> 00:22:54.049 Stephane MOUY: It's significant. And it's it's quite a threshold as you can as an element. 116 00:22:54.670 --> 00:22:56.929 Stephane MOUY: I had a slides for 117 00:22:56.950 --> 00:23:09.490 Stephane MOUY: They PIN, but unfortunately it's not here, because as mentioned earlier, I made a couple of presentation last year, one last year and 1 2 years ago in the very same topic. So 118 00:23:09.520 --> 00:23:17.739 Stephane MOUY: I was wondering if Vietnam was going to think that. you know it was a repeat of what I had said at the time. 119 00:23:18.060 --> 00:23:19.530 Stephane MOUY: And 120 00:23:19.640 --> 00:23:31.440 Stephane MOUY: basically, I I suspect none of you have. we're present as a you know, when when we made a presentation in 2021, 2022. 121 00:23:31.450 --> 00:23:37.069 Stephane MOUY: But, anyway, what's the latest news? so the latest news? Oh, sorry. 122 00:23:37.760 --> 00:23:49.129 Stephane MOUY: Well, first of all, before we get into this maybe we should have a word of caution for non European. So I guess that's the best majority of the audience today. 123 00:23:49.220 --> 00:24:10.309 Stephane MOUY: one is E, I desk 2 is a very ambitious project. There is no question that. This is certainly a piece of regulation where you cannot say that The European Commission has lacked ambition. so it's aiming for the highest level of assurance. 124 00:24:10.330 --> 00:24:18.200 Stephane MOUY: the highest level of privacy. The greatest diversity of the use cases so reconciling this requirements is 125 00:24:18.580 --> 00:24:25.839 Stephane MOUY: guaranteed to be challenging and and and difficult. we can see that already. 126 00:24:26.110 --> 00:24:38.310 Stephane MOUY: and and one of the problem that is facing the the the team leading the efforts of is that You know, technical specifications are 127 00:24:38.320 --> 00:24:52.049 Stephane MOUY: not that easy to find in order to cover such a broad spectrum of use. Cases. Some are only draft forms, some are not fully stable. So it's a you know. It's a difficult decision. 128 00:24:52.220 --> 00:24:53.810 Stephane MOUY: the second. 129 00:24:54.100 --> 00:25:06.500 Stephane MOUY: the second aspect you have to bear in mind, which is that It's a regulatory initiative, and it's It has very obvious, very clear, very powerful, in fact, political backing. 130 00:25:06.750 --> 00:25:16.400 Stephane MOUY: it's it's seen, rightly, wrongly, as the most tangible initially, for European citizens in the digital area. 131 00:25:16.780 --> 00:25:29.600 Stephane MOUY: and it's you know, it's heavily supported by the I would say the heads of the the of the European Commission, but also the European Council representing governments. 132 00:25:30.210 --> 00:25:46.070 Stephane MOUY: and it's it's it's a public You have to understand that it is a public initiative in many ways. The Member space will notify the digital identity, whether they have discretion in in 133 00:25:47.130 --> 00:25:59.859 Stephane MOUY: and defining who will? you know, who would be allowed to present a digital identity what it and they are legally responsible for that process. So they call the shop. Still. 134 00:26:00.120 --> 00:26:18.449 Stephane MOUY: it's it's taking a lot of time. It's celebrated in 2 years in the making. and I think you really are. we're still, I think, not even sure. With Midway I would consider a 5 year horizon. So basically, you would still have 3 years to go. 135 00:26:18.680 --> 00:26:29.860 Stephane MOUY: It's not completely It's not completely surprising. Given that, you know, this is an effort that is effectively involving free 30 different countries. 136 00:26:30.570 --> 00:26:42.400 Stephane MOUY: And that means that you know successes by no means guaranteed. But likewise. On the other hand, you know, complete failure is then like this. So you know, we're probably 137 00:26:42.790 --> 00:26:59.959 Stephane MOUY: it's somewhere in the middle. you know. Which side? Where are we going to end up? That's still there, and decided there are many factors that have to be worked out. it's it's pretty pretty still the period still out there, a lot of things that need to be decided. Still. 138 00:27:01.460 --> 00:27:05.959 Stephane MOUY: on the E, it's ecosystem. 139 00:27:06.130 --> 00:27:07.349 Stephane MOUY: well, hold on. 140 00:27:07.670 --> 00:27:21.739 Stephane MOUY: maybe I should have been here. So where are we now? basically. The the first project was presented in 2,021. that's when I made the first presentation to the 141 00:27:22.120 --> 00:27:33.839 Stephane MOUY: Then that was an AI. That's expert group set up in October that year. That was the first version of the architecture and reference framework document presented in 2,022 142 00:27:34.380 --> 00:27:45.479 Stephane MOUY: and then, you know, the legislative process was, was, initiated, the first considered by the Parliament in October 21 143 00:27:45.630 --> 00:27:52.989 Stephane MOUY: 4 large scale pilots launch in December of last year, one at design concern to them selected 144 00:27:53.440 --> 00:28:06.400 Stephane MOUY: draft regulation, approved by the European Council in December of last year, approved by the European Parliament in March, and now there is a so called Taylor process, aiming to reconcile the 145 00:28:06.510 --> 00:28:18.099 Stephane MOUY: EU Council and the EU Parliament's position? initiated in April. Why is it called the T log and not the dialogue, because the European Commission is involved as well. 146 00:28:18.660 --> 00:28:25.729 Stephane MOUY: So, however You may have seen last. but in fact, 10 days ago 147 00:28:25.900 --> 00:28:29.810 Stephane MOUY: there was a a political agreement 148 00:28:30.070 --> 00:28:34.049 Stephane MOUY: and a statement saying that in fact, you know, the 149 00:28:34.280 --> 00:28:46.489 Stephane MOUY: representatives of the Urban Council and of the European Parliament had a agreed. That settled the founded deal, so to speak, on the on the key terms of the European Digital Identity Framework. 150 00:28:47.740 --> 00:28:54.879 Stephane MOUY: I've you know, put extracts of the of the EU Commission. Communicate. 151 00:28:54.900 --> 00:29:06.790 Stephane MOUY: We'll see. We haven't seen the final draft, but it's it's very likely to be somewhere between what the it's been improved by the European Council. What's been approved by the year in Parliament? 152 00:29:07.110 --> 00:29:24.009 Stephane MOUY: there is. for for you guys who are interested in D, there is an interesting topic here, because the electronic ledger services were struck down by the and Parliament on the basis that you know they are 153 00:29:24.050 --> 00:29:33.160 Stephane MOUY: not consistent with an environmentally friendly environment? so the work, you know, for that, you know the the 154 00:29:33.350 --> 00:29:34.570 Stephane MOUY: the 155 00:29:34.710 --> 00:29:47.699 Stephane MOUY: The green movement in in Europe is quite strong. So they they've taken a a negative year, dealt services, and they they shut down everything that was even remotely related to the Lt. In the draft. 156 00:29:47.800 --> 00:30:06.810 Stephane MOUY: whether that will continue will will that position will be upheld in the final draft? We don't know. I mean, that's one of the things to see anyway. And once that it's done, you know, once you have a regulation it's not, you know. It's not the 157 00:30:06.870 --> 00:30:11.899 Stephane MOUY: and of the process by any means. One of the reason in that, because there are 158 00:30:11.930 --> 00:30:30.109 Stephane MOUY: quite a few delegated and implementation acts to prepare. So they are, you know, second secondary regulation, if you wish. that is being mentioned in the in the Ei desk regulation, but not yet drafted. So that's you know, that's another 159 00:30:30.260 --> 00:30:33.480 Stephane MOUY: regulatory dimension to consider. 160 00:30:33.750 --> 00:30:47.980 Stephane MOUY: And on top of that there are 2 other aspect. One is the so called the architecture and reference document. This is a document that is defining the technical specifications of the 161 00:30:48.800 --> 00:31:02.369 Stephane MOUY: difficult identity. What it's if you're interested in that. there's already. well, it's it's an ongoing documents. So you know you have. it's there's an each active process 162 00:31:02.430 --> 00:31:10.119 Stephane MOUY: there is. The first version was published in February last year. The current version is 163 00:31:10.400 --> 00:31:21.130 Stephane MOUY: The current public version is the was probably released in April, and I think the the next one should be available within weeks, or maybe days, actually. 164 00:31:21.720 --> 00:31:32.350 Stephane MOUY: And I'll I'll mention a little bit about this, and on top of that there's a a so called reference of reference implementation of the digital identity. What is so there is a 165 00:31:32.440 --> 00:31:44.570 Stephane MOUY: consolation that has been assigned, or with the task of of building a digital identity wallet that will have to be after that. That will be used by 166 00:31:44.820 --> 00:31:51.229 Stephane MOUY: by Member States when not to find their own solution. 167 00:31:51.490 --> 00:32:02.850 Stephane MOUY: And on top of that, you have, currently for so called large scale pilots that are that are designed to test the real life 168 00:32:03.110 --> 00:32:07.210 Stephane MOUY: usage of the digital identity. Wex, 169 00:32:08.670 --> 00:32:26.080 Stephane MOUY: there are 2 used cases that are being prioritized to that effect. One is the mobile driving license. and the second one is the identification on for online services. But on top of that there are 170 00:32:26.160 --> 00:32:37.350 Stephane MOUY: other use cases like health educational credentials. It's pretty diplomas did little of finance. They did a little travel credentials. So if you look at 171 00:32:37.790 --> 00:32:49.440 Stephane MOUY: some of these large scale pilots are public 3 of the 4, I think the fourth is still to be announced. But 3 of them are known. They have website. They have already, 172 00:32:49.680 --> 00:33:00.220 Stephane MOUY: published information about what she is. Ca, they are considering. there isn't that much information yet, but you know it's and they are. 173 00:33:00.320 --> 00:33:10.190 Stephane MOUY: these are consortium that are gathering firms from companies, from different environments. I I I've been looking for 174 00:33:10.280 --> 00:33:26.080 Stephane MOUY: obvious reasons. I've been looking at the financial sector digital finance use case. and you can see that. you know, quite a few banks are involved in the. There's one large scale that is, fully dedicated to payments. 175 00:33:26.740 --> 00:33:40.410 Stephane MOUY: and there's another one that is dedicated to digital travel credentials, including payments. and they include most of the big names in Europe on that. So you'll learn. 176 00:33:40.720 --> 00:33:47.129 Stephane MOUY: We'll see. So where we now. yeah, like, we've done that with them. 177 00:33:47.360 --> 00:33:50.400 Stephane MOUY: Yeah, I think we've done. Okay? 178 00:33:50.410 --> 00:33:59.359 Stephane MOUY: Now, just how familiar as it are, you guys with the with the digital identity, what do you? I mean. 179 00:33:59.550 --> 00:34:02.190 Stephane MOUY: we need to go through the 180 00:34:02.470 --> 00:34:06.810 Stephane MOUY: details presentation? Or is it something that is quite well known? 181 00:34:12.080 --> 00:34:20.780 Tim Spring: Go ahead, Tim. Sorry. Oh, so I was going to say. I think this group would be at least fairly familiar with the with the wallet. 182 00:34:20.940 --> 00:34:33.509 Stephane MOUY: Okay? right? Just so. Just quick. Recap. what is? First of all, you know there must be a credit is the must comply with the common specifications. You should, you know, that will be 183 00:34:33.600 --> 00:34:49.840 Stephane MOUY: that will appear in the architecture, reference document. They have to be issued or pro by Member States. So there's you know, there's if if a Member State does not like your solution, even though it may be a very good solution. No, you know there is no hope, I'm afraid. 184 00:34:49.920 --> 00:34:57.020 Stephane MOUY: They must have a high level of assurance. they must put the users in full control of the well 185 00:34:57.480 --> 00:35:08.050 Stephane MOUY: they have to be accepted by for identity, proving by reliant policy, is offering financial and other key services as well as very large online platforms. 186 00:35:08.280 --> 00:35:19.650 Stephane MOUY: so that's an important aspect, because it means that you know, all providers of key services will have to accept digital. Nobody would. 187 00:35:20.140 --> 00:35:26.699 Stephane MOUY: they have to accept. electronically tested. At stations. 188 00:35:26.980 --> 00:35:29.800 Stephane MOUY: We have to be free of charge for users. 189 00:35:29.870 --> 00:35:38.140 Stephane MOUY: They must be able to create to the the user to sign with the highest level of 190 00:35:38.460 --> 00:35:42.240 Stephane MOUY: of certainty. So this is a quantifying electronic signature. 191 00:35:42.420 --> 00:35:53.280 Stephane MOUY: They must allow the user to interact online and offline, and they must support us from customer authentication requirements including for payment. That is. 192 00:35:53.550 --> 00:36:06.949 Stephane MOUY: incidentally, that is a topic that is creating a lot of tension with the banking sector that is, the banking industry that is not really happy, and that some of the statement about this 193 00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:23.259 Stephane MOUY: and On top of that, you know, they should be able to strengthen privacy. They should be able to several identity profile and should be able to support Cbdc interactions. So we'll see how far we go in that 194 00:36:23.400 --> 00:36:26.130 Sean Bohan (Hyperledger): I ask you a question about the last slide. 195 00:36:26.650 --> 00:36:40.669 Sean Bohan (Hyperledger): Yeah. In the early days of self sovereign identity, correlation, resistance was a very big deal. It's it's absolutely something that a lot of organizations looked at as a requirement. unique identifiers, kind of defeat, correlation, resistance 196 00:36:40.770 --> 00:36:43.140 Sean Bohan (Hyperledger): when you say, whenever required. 197 00:36:43.260 --> 00:36:52.289 Sean Bohan (Hyperledger): who is? Who is the doing? The requiring? Is it a? Is it a bank? Is it a state? Is it any entity on a network could require your unique identifier? 198 00:36:53.960 --> 00:37:03.930 Stephane MOUY: Okay, that I know what you're talking? Yeah, I know what you're referring to this. a reference to the unique identifier in the regulation that is 199 00:37:04.630 --> 00:37:06.920 Stephane MOUY: I think. 200 00:37:07.480 --> 00:37:10.249 Stephane MOUY: What what it, what it came from are they 201 00:37:10.440 --> 00:37:18.080 Stephane MOUY: surprisingly is from the it's. It's it's a request or a demand depending on how you say it from the tax authorities. 202 00:37:18.110 --> 00:37:19.830 Sean Bohan (Hyperledger): because, 203 00:37:19.890 --> 00:37:33.699 Stephane MOUY: these are, you know they are saying, well, some people come up with with one country with one identity, and they by national. They have another identity from another country, and we cannot correlate it to. And this is 204 00:37:33.750 --> 00:37:41.620 Stephane MOUY: problematic. Don't ask me why. But this is apparently quite problematic for tax avoidance pro, because it facilitates tax avoidance 205 00:37:41.750 --> 00:37:49.790 Sean Bohan (Hyperledger): that that is a great answer. Thank you. I I I wasn't so bad. Yeah, so just to. So 206 00:37:50.050 --> 00:38:10.999 Stephane MOUY: as you know that you, you need to know that but once you know that, you can understand why it's in there now, people are saying, and I think a lot of people, including I think you and me are saying, Hey, you know, but a unic eye, that fire is the worst thing that can you can think about from a privacy viewpoint, because basically it allows anyone to track your interactions 207 00:38:11.000 --> 00:38:24.979 Stephane MOUY: and and monitor your usage. So of course, that's highly highly problematic. so there's there's a tension between these 2. I would say. competing 208 00:38:25.110 --> 00:38:38.259 Stephane MOUY: demands. If you wish your objectives. how that is going to be. That's one of the topics that is still not completely decided. We'll see in the final version how it will be taken care of. I think it's 209 00:38:38.280 --> 00:38:53.750 Stephane MOUY: likely to remain as a requirement, but not everybody. I think what was likely to happen is that only certain public sector, relying parties will be able to will be allowed to require the unique identifier. That's what I understand. 210 00:38:53.900 --> 00:38:56.400 Sean Bohan (Hyperledger): Understood that. Thank you so much for that answer. 211 00:38:57.130 --> 00:38:59.000 Stephane MOUY: Okay, 212 00:38:59.050 --> 00:39:21.260 Stephane MOUY: right? So at the very, at the very core. You know the the the ecosystem is pretty simple. You have, basically an app provider that publishes the digital the digital, identity one. It on the app. It's been, of course, has to be certified. It has to be. Not only has it got to be certified, but it has to be 213 00:39:21.430 --> 00:39:42.320 Stephane MOUY: approved by a Member State, and it has to be notified to the European Commission. So it has to be, I would say, approved by stick. and once that is done, the what it user can use. The app can download an identity profile, that identity profile is effectively provided by so called Pid providers 214 00:39:42.580 --> 00:39:47.259 Stephane MOUY: providers of personal identification data. 215 00:39:47.370 --> 00:39:58.680 Stephane MOUY: and on top of that you can also have electronically tested attributes which are issued by effectively. Trust service providers 216 00:39:59.270 --> 00:40:19.149 Stephane MOUY: and and you can combine the 2, of course, and those are used to and communicate it to relying parties in the normal course of action. So what that means is that you have. you know, a Plato up of possible use cases that are can be considered 217 00:40:19.390 --> 00:40:29.640 Stephane MOUY: public sector, private sector banking, not banking health. trouble. There's virtually no 218 00:40:29.830 --> 00:40:38.150 Stephane MOUY: animals, no no aspect of of of one's life that cannot be considered or can not be. 219 00:40:39.220 --> 00:40:50.779 Stephane MOUY: used by the digital identity. What we'll see again, we'll see how this is going to work in practice. But you know, the ambition is certainly. 220 00:40:51.190 --> 00:41:12.079 Stephane MOUY: because I'm it's certainly there. Bear in mind that You know you have public attributes, private attributes, and you have the ability to sign with the highest level of of legal certainty, which is the quantified electronic signature. The combined effect of those should be quite transformational. 221 00:41:12.230 --> 00:41:14.000 Stephane MOUY: Assuming it works well. 222 00:41:14.020 --> 00:41:18.389 Stephane MOUY: I've provided the 223 00:41:18.930 --> 00:41:30.180 Stephane MOUY: What I what I find is that you know authorizing have been focusing a lot on the payment use case. And I I do believe that the ability to 224 00:41:30.200 --> 00:41:39.960 Stephane MOUY: in track offline is is at is absolutely key. So there's been a fair amount of focus on that 225 00:41:40.190 --> 00:41:52.479 Stephane MOUY: and and this is also quite relevant for the the digital identity. What it to be used with in connection with some bank digital currencies and the the digital or in particular. 226 00:41:52.890 --> 00:41:58.610 Stephane MOUY: again, if you're interested at the use case. And you should look at the 227 00:41:58.750 --> 00:42:09.800 Stephane MOUY: website of the Ew, the 228 00:42:09.940 --> 00:42:14.540 Stephane MOUY: dealing with the preparing working on use cases. 229 00:42:15.720 --> 00:42:18.910 Stephane MOUY: Now on the technology side. 230 00:42:19.140 --> 00:42:20.480 Stephane MOUY: the 231 00:42:20.800 --> 00:42:35.679 Stephane MOUY: current version of the AI does mention some technology choices that I've been made. And what you can see that those choices reflect the 232 00:42:35.750 --> 00:42:48.059 Stephane MOUY: so call priority used cases. if you remember one of the priority used cases, the mobile driving license. I I gather in the Us. You you do have 233 00:42:48.350 --> 00:43:02.949 Stephane MOUY: Apple has been quite instrumental in deploying mobile driving license on the iphone. And I think, basically, what is what is considered is, it's it's a repeat of that process. And 234 00:43:03.120 --> 00:43:12.940 Stephane MOUY: so the there is a dedicated, the isolated for that. So we should be I so 18013 sl, 5, 235 00:43:13.140 --> 00:43:32.300 Stephane MOUY: and and that is you know, those likely to be used for proximity connections proximity connections being when the what it user is. let's say, physically present with the reliant party. And it's, in fact, interacting 236 00:43:32.600 --> 00:43:40.129 Stephane MOUY: typically with a an Nfc or a call, or a or a bluetooth, or or a 237 00:43:41.380 --> 00:43:44.979 Stephane MOUY: However, the 238 00:43:45.020 --> 00:43:54.960 Stephane MOUY: I'm not totally convinced that it can be they love beyond the mobile driving license. Use case because I don't. If you're familiar with this. But it's 239 00:43:56.180 --> 00:44:05.740 Stephane MOUY: it's basically transferring to the reliance party the the digital photo of the what it user? 240 00:44:05.800 --> 00:44:16.659 Stephane MOUY: which is fine if you're presenting it to to a police officer. But now so fine if you're presenting it to someone you really don't know and you can't trust them. So 241 00:44:17.200 --> 00:44:25.019 Stephane MOUY: there is also reference to the W. 3 C verifiable credential data model 242 00:44:25.330 --> 00:44:30.530 Stephane MOUY: but it appears to be given second priority compared to the 243 00:44:30.780 --> 00:44:37.750 Stephane MOUY: end up I saw 18 of 1, 3 5 specifications. So 244 00:44:38.010 --> 00:44:41.099 Stephane MOUY: again, no mention of the Lt 245 00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:48.100 Stephane MOUY: you know, I'm part of the I'm not a technology expert. So I think, 246 00:44:48.260 --> 00:44:58.149 Stephane MOUY: But I have. I'm attending the yeah, that's expert group meetings. I have never heard anyone saying, look, we should mention the Lt. 247 00:44:58.430 --> 00:45:04.710 Stephane MOUY: so why, that is I I don't know. I mean I am, but it's it's a fact of life. 248 00:45:04.950 --> 00:45:23.410 Stephane MOUY: The other thing that is quite quite clear is that those specifications are not dressing the relying party authentication. it's it's basically not addressing the fact that, you know, maybe in digital interaction, you should start from a 249 00:45:23.540 --> 00:45:34.220 Stephane MOUY: a 0 trust basis or principle, you should apply 0 press principle, and you know you should make sure that the the is fully authenticated before you can do anything with it. 250 00:45:35.890 --> 00:45:42.560 Stephane MOUY: Okay? On the other hand. it's still early days on the technology side. 251 00:45:43.010 --> 00:46:07.099 Stephane MOUY: because the air. So it's designed to be a work in harvest document and and it's it's not. you know, it's quite possible that changes would be made to the choice of specification hopefully. Not, major major change because it cannot completely. You know. you know, restart from scratch and and and forget everything you've been working on for months. But there is certainly a room for adjustment. 252 00:46:09.280 --> 00:46:14.999 Stephane MOUY: so payment, which is my area of specialty. 253 00:46:15.680 --> 00:46:26.740 Stephane MOUY: yeah, maybe before that. first, the yeah, it does to. It's really moving from a user control to a user control identity based system. 254 00:46:26.890 --> 00:46:37.419 Stephane MOUY: maybe. Ss, I don't know if it's the right for it. possibly, maybe. Yes, maybe not. But And what's also clear that 255 00:46:37.670 --> 00:46:44.739 Stephane MOUY: payments are key a key part of most one ethical systems in interaction and digital interactions. 256 00:46:45.350 --> 00:46:57.900 Stephane MOUY: and I, there's there's a renewed images for the Given all the work on the digital year. I did mention the fact that 257 00:46:59.050 --> 00:47:01.790 Stephane MOUY: back here where this 258 00:47:04.790 --> 00:47:07.109 Stephane MOUY: I don't know. sorry. 259 00:47:11.410 --> 00:47:16.450 Stephane MOUY: Oh, it's here. Okay. Yeah. I'll come to that in a minute. 260 00:47:16.940 --> 00:47:28.859 Stephane MOUY: but and and you know, at a at a wider level, there is a clear recognition that a digital interaction that can combine. I would say, core id attributes. 261 00:47:29.030 --> 00:47:34.489 Stephane MOUY: status and professional attributes like diplomas, licenses 262 00:47:35.010 --> 00:47:48.419 Stephane MOUY: or eligibility. credentials can open, you know, a new and payment attributes can open, and you would be quite transformational for customer interaction and customer experience. So 263 00:47:48.720 --> 00:47:52.019 Stephane MOUY: we'll see how far it goes. 264 00:47:52.280 --> 00:47:57.409 Stephane MOUY: the on the payment use case. I was saying that the 265 00:47:57.490 --> 00:48:08.549 Stephane MOUY: very a recent digital year draft proposal makes. But if you references to digital identity, what it for Cvdc interactions. 266 00:48:10.030 --> 00:48:19.409 Stephane MOUY: you know. So I've copied the a few of the mentions of the digital identity what it in the recital and substantive provisions. 267 00:48:19.650 --> 00:48:22.500 Stephane MOUY: again, you know, it's 268 00:48:23.060 --> 00:48:39.700 Stephane MOUY: a it. It clearly is recognized. For you know the the digital identity. What I will clearly be recognized for interest. In some digital years we'll see again. It's still early days, but you know we'll see how things will turn out. But 269 00:48:39.930 --> 00:48:51.769 Stephane MOUY: the I would say, certainly the digital identity. What it is is on the rate of screen of the European Cell Bank. when it comes to the difficult year. 270 00:48:52.230 --> 00:49:07.820 Stephane MOUY: when you're looking at the payment case. of course. you know the ability to store and communicate personal, identifiable information. And if, an electronically tested actually be through line quality is very important. 271 00:49:07.980 --> 00:49:20.750 Stephane MOUY: you have to be able to use to comply with from customer communication requirements. As you probably know, I don't quite know what the situation in the is in the Us. But in Europe this is 272 00:49:21.170 --> 00:49:25.409 Stephane MOUY: This is an absolute payment requirement. So 273 00:49:26.740 --> 00:49:38.579 Stephane MOUY: and you know, and the fact that the what it would have to be accepted by all payment service providers, including all banks. As a matter of fact, is, is it important? 274 00:49:38.800 --> 00:49:42.989 Stephane MOUY: anyway? So that's where we are now. 275 00:49:43.290 --> 00:49:59.960 Stephane MOUY: now, the question is, whether this is fit for payment purposes. So far. again, there are to payment interactions. you have 0 trust by default so new to a authentication is required for for simply for for prevention purposes. 276 00:50:00.090 --> 00:50:15.709 Stephane MOUY: it's currently not defined in the eras. I think it will be. But you know it's it's it's probably going to rely on on on I would say x 5 and 9 certificates, but we'll see how that where it'll work out. 277 00:50:16.030 --> 00:50:33.009 Stephane MOUY: Then you need to ensure legal equality of payment instructions. and you need to ensure that, you know, if you have a player with what it's gonna pay with the world you need to make sure that they both fully committed legally. And that also implies having an 278 00:50:33.160 --> 00:50:39.250 Stephane MOUY: and not a trail of the payment messages that can be archived, and they can be presented in court proceedings. 279 00:50:39.720 --> 00:50:48.039 Stephane MOUY: And as mentioned, you need to have some user authentication in line with the European regulation on payments. 280 00:50:49.180 --> 00:50:56.750 Stephane MOUY: But it's it's currently not obvious at all that these requirements we can be met with the current set of complicated specifications. 281 00:50:56.760 --> 00:51:11.720 Stephane MOUY: I, this is my private view, of course. But I do think that you know, the Iso, 180135 specification is the standard is privacy invasive. 282 00:51:12.330 --> 00:51:27.139 Stephane MOUY: I hope you did not disagree with me, but I think the W Threec. Verifiable credentials specifications are not designed to deal with mutual commitments they did not. also 283 00:51:27.240 --> 00:51:30.160 Stephane MOUY: readily support offline interactions 284 00:51:30.650 --> 00:51:39.479 Stephane MOUY: and the rest Api request responses are not tailored to me. So all the trial requirements. So these are, you know, 285 00:51:40.360 --> 00:51:51.880 Stephane MOUY: technical issues. it's it's work in progress. It's It's annoying. If it's You know, there is a lot a lot of work to be done. 286 00:51:51.890 --> 00:52:12.139 Stephane MOUY: we'll see if the ambition, the considerable ambition of the digital identity, while it will translate into meaningful reality. There's, you know, there's a little bit of dial about that, but we'll see. I mean, it's Anyway, it's not the end of the story. We're not even midway through the 287 00:52:12.260 --> 00:52:13.590 Stephane MOUY: the process. 288 00:52:13.860 --> 00:52:17.280 Stephane MOUY: So we'll see what happens. 289 00:52:17.740 --> 00:52:30.869 Stephane MOUY: any before I move to the next In fact, time is running out. I can see. Maybe I should stop here. A. Is there any any comments, any any suggestion, any questions, or, if I will clear. 290 00:52:40.840 --> 00:52:44.600 Tim Spring: I would say no questions currently. So if you have, like a 291 00:52:45.080 --> 00:52:49.429 Tim Spring: a quick summary or anything, I think that would be. 292 00:52:50.000 --> 00:53:01.890 Stephane MOUY: I think it's it's really here. I think that's probably the best to give you. That's why we did the best view of you know the the yeah, I guess, to initiative. 293 00:53:03.010 --> 00:53:18.410 Stephane MOUY: again, a lot of the basically the next steps within a few weeks. I think we're going to see the final final version of the Ei, this regulation, the one that will we should sign you groups. 294 00:53:18.760 --> 00:53:29.570 Stephane MOUY: we will also see an updated version of the architecture reference document, and that will probably include a provision on on mutual. 295 00:53:29.790 --> 00:53:35.590 Stephane MOUY: and give more clarity on the choice of technologies that are going to be used. 296 00:53:35.980 --> 00:53:44.909 Stephane MOUY: There is going to be work down. There is work down on the I would say, prototype implementation of the wallet. 297 00:53:45.310 --> 00:53:58.510 Stephane MOUY: and the Ls field will start to get into real motion. Currently, you know, the on the Lsp. Side the consortia has been. They made an offer. They've been accepted. They've negotiated 298 00:53:58.640 --> 00:54:04.089 Stephane MOUY: a contract with the European Commission, but they haven't really 299 00:54:04.170 --> 00:54:17.820 Stephane MOUY: started work. They need to have the a workable prototype wanted to do that. So they're waiting for the reference for the reference implementation side, and then more clarity on the era side as well. 300 00:54:18.010 --> 00:54:23.140 Stephane MOUY: I think that's what we can say. it's an exciting project. 301 00:54:23.390 --> 00:54:25.910 Stephane MOUY: It's certainly 302 00:54:25.920 --> 00:54:28.870 Stephane MOUY: very ambitious, no doubt. 303 00:54:29.180 --> 00:54:39.260 Stephane MOUY: and And we'll see what happens. maybe I have to. I'd be given another opportunity to present. It's in in in 12 on side. 304 00:54:40.940 --> 00:54:44.309 Tim Spring: Huh? Absolutely. No, I think. 305 00:54:44.650 --> 00:54:51.069 Tim Spring: it's exactly what you said. It's ambitious, but it is exciting. And yeah, if there's more updates in another year, we'd love to have you back 306 00:54:51.360 --> 00:54:53.200 Stephane MOUY: oh. 307 00:54:53.600 --> 00:55:02.710 Tim Spring: oh, yeah, I think, we'll throw it out to questions, one more time. But I think if there is still none we appreciate you coming to talk to us today. 308 00:55:04.020 --> 00:55:06.310 Stephane MOUY: Thank you. That's good. 309 00:55:06.880 --> 00:55:11.710 Stephane MOUY: Can I ask you a question, though I I gather the 310 00:55:12.200 --> 00:55:19.610 Stephane MOUY: I could leisure. Can you clarify? What's the difference between the hyper leisure, identity, special interest group and the previous group 311 00:55:19.830 --> 00:55:26.410 Stephane MOUY: managed by? By the is it more or less the same, or is it a different one? 312 00:55:27.030 --> 00:55:34.749 Tim Spring: I am unfamiliar. Unfortunately, with the previous group managed by Vivid. So I know that we were combined 313 00:55:36.190 --> 00:55:42.609 Tim Spring: at some point. But I I was not part of that conversation, unfortunately so sorry about that. 314 00:55:42.940 --> 00:55:44.270 Stephane MOUY: No problem. 315 00:55:45.310 --> 00:55:47.170 Tim Spring: Okay? Well, listen. 316 00:55:47.710 --> 00:55:52.599 Stephane MOUY: all right. If you're if you're interested in the presentation, I'm happy to 317 00:55:53.200 --> 00:56:03.080 Stephane MOUY: give you the link to the to the document, so you can take a a closer look at it. later. 318 00:56:03.610 --> 00:56:05.769 Tim Spring: No, that would be awesome. I would appreciate that. 319 00:56:06.290 --> 00:56:07.730 Stephane MOUY: Okay, perfect. 320 00:56:08.790 --> 00:56:11.760 Stephane MOUY: Very good. 321 00:56:11.840 --> 00:56:14.239 Jairo Romo: Hi, guys, I don't know. You don't hear me. 322 00:56:14.830 --> 00:56:15.820 Jairo Romo: Yeah. 323 00:56:15.980 --> 00:56:28.560 Jairo Romo: yeah. Okay, guys, my name is Gyro Romo. I'm going to go directly to the question. I was I was working in the past, or I've been working during the last couple of years 324 00:56:28.560 --> 00:56:54.720 Jairo Romo: for drink, finance, blockchain trade finance. One of the initiatives, as you know, to refinance is one of the industries that needs more these days. Digitally, they say she, on a standardization. Those type of things in entity is incredibly important at a individual level. But it's also important at a company lever who is buying what we're sending. 325 00:56:54.960 --> 00:57:07.600 Jairo Romo: There was a couple of initiatives of there was an initiative to implement a global legal entity or let identity and the fire 326 00:57:07.860 --> 00:57:13.779 Jairo Romo: a promote or supported by the G. 7. 327 00:57:13.840 --> 00:57:18.569 Jairo Romo: That initiative. I was a I was my. 328 00:57:18.730 --> 00:57:37.870 Jairo Romo: the doing some type of analysis around it was an initiative for to to create an identifier that every single country from the G 7. And now there are more countries. We're going to implement to interviews at a global level. 329 00:57:37.870 --> 00:57:55.609 Jairo Romo: To do exactly that, we identify or to have a globally. Then, if I, your 4 companies, more than 4 individuals. Do you know anything about this initiative? Do you know what I think? I I've heard to be honest, but I'm not 330 00:57:55.690 --> 00:58:02.650 Stephane MOUY: I'm not really involved. I think I should have mentioned earlier that the I hope it's clear from my presentation, though. 331 00:58:02.650 --> 00:58:26.429 Stephane MOUY: I should have mentioned earlier that the digital identity, what it is primarily designed to be used by an individual, so not not a legal entity per say, the however the individual can produce and a chronically attested attributes, and these can be, for example, authority to act on behalf of the legal entity that know that. But 332 00:58:26.430 --> 00:58:44.000 Stephane MOUY: effectively here, you're really talking about digital identity and and the service primarily to be used by individuals, maybe in a professional capacity, but primarily for individuals. What you're referring to is a is a purely 333 00:58:44.360 --> 00:58:56.240 Stephane MOUY: an initiative that's been going on for many years, in fact. to define a common registration scheme for all legal entities. 334 00:58:56.260 --> 00:59:07.179 Stephane MOUY: I've heard of it. I've you know. I heard of it repeatedly, but I'm not involved in that effort. I'm not really part of it. It's a different 335 00:59:07.300 --> 00:59:11.000 Stephane MOUY: so I really cannot talk meaningfully about it, I'm afraid. 336 00:59:11.330 --> 00:59:12.260 Jairo Romo: Okay. 337 00:59:12.460 --> 00:59:20.179 Jairo Romo: Another quick, quick question. Then, if we are all this world, we are talking about 338 00:59:20.360 --> 00:59:33.799 Jairo Romo: a good we prepare in terms of technology in terms of infrastructure, to be able to cover in the future as a second phase as ours and nexus State. 339 00:59:33.910 --> 00:59:42.100 Jairo Romo: For these a. A. A. A legal or or enterprises, identities or identifiers. 340 00:59:45.790 --> 00:59:47.230 Stephane MOUY: Yeah, I mean, there's 341 00:59:47.890 --> 00:59:55.330 Stephane MOUY: what what I can say is that there's always in the background, you know the the the 342 00:59:55.390 --> 01:00:08.130 Stephane MOUY: let me put it this way. The the primary efforts is clearly individuals. Okay, now people are saying, Oh, yes, but individuals they act in. They can act on behalf of the legal entity 343 01:00:08.800 --> 01:00:10.710 Stephane MOUY: that is seen as 344 01:00:10.780 --> 01:00:22.190 Stephane MOUY: you know, as effectively an individual in, in, in, in it, acting in a defined capacity, with a defined authorization or authority credential 345 01:00:22.300 --> 01:00:29.860 Stephane MOUY: acting to able being able to, you know, for example, to activate the A company's account. For example. 346 01:00:30.080 --> 01:00:43.199 Stephane MOUY: it's it's it's a set of It's a subset of it's seen as a subset of of used cases that are considered by the I that's 2 initiatives. 347 01:00:43.280 --> 01:00:51.550 Stephane MOUY: so that will come. What I think you're unlikely to see, though, is what it? That is, a pure 348 01:00:51.950 --> 01:00:56.800 Stephane MOUY: company, wide that has no individual's name to it, so to speak. 349 01:00:57.680 --> 01:00:59.610 Jairo Romo: Okay. okay. 350 01:00:59.890 --> 01:01:02.959 Charles Lanahan: just to just jump in. 351 01:01:03.400 --> 01:01:11.339 Charles Lanahan: I think what you're referring to Mr. Rome is the glee, the global legal. I I posted it in the chat 352 01:01:11.540 --> 01:01:25.079 Charles Lanahan: and then the identifier as the legal in the identifier. And then the company credentials will be the virtual legal in an identifier. And I agree with your assessment. sure that the Ei, this is more toward 353 01:01:25.220 --> 01:01:36.169 Stephane MOUY: individuals. And the I mean, it's it's it's very. It's very clear that AI that is geared towards individuals, because, in fact, you know, really talking about here. 354 01:01:36.410 --> 01:01:38.880 Stephane MOUY: where it is. on 355 01:01:40.140 --> 01:01:58.580 Stephane MOUY: Yes, you know you do have pad providers at the core of the it's project you have did providers who are providing core identity attributes to an individual. And then, you know the. So that's you know, that's the key quite a fundamental structural building block. 356 01:01:58.610 --> 01:02:12.600 Stephane MOUY: On top of that, you can have. you know that individual authorized to act on behalf of a company? There is no question about that. But it it's it's you know. It's seen as another 357 01:02:13.160 --> 01:02:18.660 Stephane MOUY: layer of of authority or given to one individual. 358 01:02:18.740 --> 01:02:27.829 Stephane MOUY: So it's not purely, you know, a a tool for legal entities that has no connection with any individual. I mean, that's very clear. 359 01:02:28.050 --> 01:02:31.570 Charles Lanahan: Right? Well, assuming that both of them succeed. 360 01:02:32.110 --> 01:02:45.710 Charles Lanahan: they'll probably be bridge credentials and all that stuff in the future. There's companies, and they have an individual work for them. But they're are all company focused. 361 01:02:46.320 --> 01:02:51.990 Jairo Romo: Yeah. Yep, yep. thanks, guys, thanks for the planning. Thanks. 362 01:02:52.340 --> 01:02:54.470 Charles Lanahan: Yeah, thank you for your presentation. 363 01:02:54.500 --> 01:02:56.740 Stephane MOUY: Thanks, Charles. 364 01:02:56.980 --> 01:03:04.379 Stephane MOUY: nice interacting with you guys. I think it's it's the one I will talk, anyway. So we're we're done. Yeah, I have a good day. 365 01:03:04.510 --> 01:03:07.060 Tim Spring: Alright. Have a good one, everyone bye.