WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.570 --> 00:00:08.559 Stephen Curran: Meeting. welcome to the July seventeenth, 2,023, and on credit specification working group meeting. 2 00:00:08.620 --> 00:00:15.059 Stephen Curran: so pr, is to review. And then I want to talk about, and all the credits in W. 3 C. Format. 3 00:00:16.480 --> 00:00:21.319 Stephen Curran: we may be pushing forward. BC. Got baby pushing forward on 4 00:00:21.420 --> 00:00:29.379 Stephen Curran: getting code behind that getting more code behind that. So I wanted to get feedback from the community on that 5 00:00:29.420 --> 00:00:33.829 Stephen Curran: to make sure that if we are producing that we can get to the right thing. 6 00:00:34.150 --> 00:00:43.670 Stephen Curran: after that open discussion we can talk about anything people want to raise. we are recording. So I'll record post this after the meeting. 7 00:00:44.030 --> 00:00:53.759 Stephen Curran: reminder. It's a Linux Foundation Hyper ledger meeting. So the antitrust policy of the Linux foundation is in effect, as is the Hyper Ledger code of conduct. 8 00:00:54.180 --> 00:01:01.310 Stephen Curran: anyone want to introduce themselves new to the meeting? and new to, you know, credits. 9 00:01:01.480 --> 00:01:05.370 Stephen Curran: and have feel free to grab the mic and introduce 10 00:01:10.030 --> 00:01:14.140 Stephen Curran: Nice. I don't think I recognize but you but welcome to tail. 11 00:01:14.680 --> 00:01:22.150 Stephen Curran: all right. 12 00:01:22.770 --> 00:01:37.489 Stephen Curran: We've got a few prs to review. So I wanted to get those done. Took a look through them today, saw some things that I wanted to talk about on that. So let's get into looking at the Pr. As we have. We've got 4 of them 13 00:01:39.840 --> 00:01:45.799 Stephen Curran: as noted. This one was put in quite a while ago. 14 00:01:45.920 --> 00:01:49.840 Stephen Curran: We've done had a couple of back and forth on it. 15 00:01:50.010 --> 00:01:53.640 Stephen Curran: This is to do with adding a link secret. 16 00:01:55.270 --> 00:02:00.490 So whoops. Let me get these to the right spot. 17 00:02:03.150 --> 00:02:04.320 Stephen Curran: Okay. 18 00:02:04.750 --> 00:02:18.089 Stephen Curran: I don't know Mike, or a reach, or if you've had a chance to look at these, but would be good. Looks like most of these. not much is changed. Oh, I see a little 19 00:02:18.510 --> 00:02:19.450 Stephen Curran: thanks. 20 00:02:19.930 --> 00:02:32.419 Stephen Curran: Minor fixed er but the V becomes V. This is where I I don't know enough about it, but slight change there in content. This content is added. 21 00:02:33.030 --> 00:02:43.539 Stephen Curran: Mike, would you be able to review this or have you reviewed it? And Is is it accurate? 22 00:02:44.980 --> 00:02:53.500 Michael Lodder: I have not reviewed it. This is my first time seeing it. But this, this does look familiar. 23 00:02:55.050 --> 00:03:06.640 Stephen Curran: This looks like you're just taking exactly what's happening in the code, putting it as a spec. 24 00:03:07.460 --> 00:03:16.099 Stephen Curran: But we do want to make sure that what goes in is is correct, and I I can find things up to 25 00:03:16.340 --> 00:03:27.939 Stephen Curran: these parts. And I've got a few comments on some of the other Pr's from that perspective. But I don't know enough of of interpreting this. 26 00:03:31.300 --> 00:03:35.589 Stephen Curran: I guess, with these Pdfs. We can't point out where. 27 00:03:37.250 --> 00:03:39.849 Stephen Curran: where in the spec we should be looking 28 00:03:42.190 --> 00:03:48.769 Stephen Curran: like to find the definition. So that's one of the things that I notice. 29 00:03:48.800 --> 00:03:56.829 Stephen Curran: or you did as well, and they're doing it, which is all they do is point to the Pdf. As opposed to the specific section within the Pdf. 30 00:03:57.140 --> 00:04:09.960 Stephen Curran: And even if it's got to be referenced by, you know, can't be linked directly inside the Pdf. Which I don't think we can do as the Pdf. Is now we should be at least pointing to where to go. 31 00:04:11.900 --> 00:04:19.510 Stephen Curran: So, Mike, maybe you take a look at these 32 00:04:20.730 --> 00:04:24.949 Stephen Curran: also wondered why this didn't get interpreted properly. 33 00:04:26.570 --> 00:04:28.720 Michael Lodder: Yeah. And the line above it, too. 34 00:04:29.100 --> 00:04:39.189 Michael Lodder: I, I, you know what I think, it is the mark down render is pretty finicky, you can't have spaces between the double dollars. 35 00:04:39.520 --> 00:04:43.809 Stephen Curran: And so I think that's what's going on. They see spaces. 36 00:04:44.300 --> 00:04:55.090 Stephen Curran: One of the things we could do is simply accept the Pr and update, you know, make the tweaks to get the to get those fixed. So that would be easy enough if the rest of it is more or less right? 37 00:04:56.050 --> 00:05:02.090 Stephen Curran: I think that's all he did. So it's those those sections relatively easy to see. 38 00:05:02.370 --> 00:05:05.290 Stephen Curran: I assume you can't do this on the fly. 39 00:05:09.300 --> 00:05:12.000 Michael Lodder: yeah. Do what 40 00:05:12.120 --> 00:05:23.549 Stephen Curran: Evaluate whether he's got these things correct or not? I've got the version up on my screen somewhere else. So I'm just taking a look. 41 00:05:24.210 --> 00:05:29.890 Michael Lodder: So he put like, our caps aren't used. I think they're only used for the 42 00:05:30.010 --> 00:05:34.029 Michael Lodder: the correctness proof. Otherwise, yeah, they aren't used anywhere else. 43 00:05:39.180 --> 00:05:43.259 Michael Lodder: So like it where it says, our caps net destruction. This version. 44 00:05:43.600 --> 00:05:47.800 Michael Lodder: It's just the those are only use for the setup part. 45 00:05:48.820 --> 00:05:50.390 Stephen Curran: Oh, so it is you. 46 00:05:50.470 --> 00:06:00.479 Michael Lodder: It's used. But it's not like it's not used every time you do a proof, it's only used for the correctness part. So we'd probably rip that part out. 47 00:06:00.930 --> 00:06:01.820 Stephen Curran: okay. 48 00:06:03.520 --> 00:06:09.979 Michael Lodder: yeah. The unfortunate thing is, you can't really comment right here very easily. But maybe we could make a list 49 00:06:11.520 --> 00:06:15.290 Stephen Curran: to come back to this, though, come back to this. 50 00:06:16.800 --> 00:06:19.950 Michael Lodder: Oh, okay, yeah. So if we could add up there, that'd be good. 51 00:06:22.130 --> 00:06:23.470 Stephen Curran: What do you want to say? 52 00:06:26.070 --> 00:06:30.359 Michael Lodder: our caps belongs only in the correctness setup roof. 53 00:06:39.730 --> 00:06:41.759 Stephen Curran: So do you remove from here? 54 00:06:42.210 --> 00:06:42.960 Michael Lodder: Yep. 55 00:06:56.210 --> 00:07:01.960 Michael Lodder: and I'm trying to decide why he's saying it's necessary to check. 56 00:07:08.110 --> 00:07:09.550 Michael Lodder: Hey? Hello. 57 00:07:13.540 --> 00:07:14.370 yeah. 58 00:07:20.180 --> 00:07:24.750 Michael Lodder: Okay, so this is issuance. All right. the primary credentials. 59 00:07:25.180 --> 00:07:26.160 Stephen Curran: Yeah. 60 00:07:27.350 --> 00:07:28.250 Michael Lodder: alright. 61 00:07:29.340 --> 00:07:30.959 Stephen Curran: Yeah. This is the 62 00:07:31.410 --> 00:07:34.700 Stephen Curran: why did master secret correct as proof. 63 00:07:42.890 --> 00:07:44.520 Michael Lodder: hey? Let's see 64 00:07:48.270 --> 00:07:49.450 Michael Lodder: you tick. 65 00:07:51.140 --> 00:07:52.280 Michael Lodder: Okay. 66 00:08:03.060 --> 00:08:06.480 Michael Lodder: why do we need to find the inverse of you? 67 00:08:09.620 --> 00:08:13.440 Michael Lodder: It doesn't make sense to me. I don't see that in the math anywhere 68 00:08:15.320 --> 00:08:18.519 Michael Lodder: like Line 320. I don't know why that's needed. 69 00:08:26.760 --> 00:08:28.379 Michael Lodder: Oh, I see. Okay. 70 00:08:45.030 --> 00:08:46.809 Michael Lodder: Oh, I see what he's doing. 71 00:08:49.040 --> 00:08:52.140 Michael Lodder: Okay? So this reads a little weird. So 72 00:08:53.530 --> 00:08:57.580 Michael Lodder: probably what needs to happen here is just some clarifying 73 00:08:57.740 --> 00:09:04.749 Michael Lodder: sentence or something that says the force before issuing begins we need to verify 74 00:09:05.750 --> 00:09:06.990 Michael Lodder: the 75 00:09:07.270 --> 00:09:09.940 Michael Lodder: blind signing request proof 76 00:09:11.740 --> 00:09:15.500 Michael Lodder: by doing the following, and then I would understand what's going on here. 77 00:09:17.780 --> 00:09:19.799 Stephen Curran: So again. 78 00:09:20.400 --> 00:09:23.920 Michael Lodder: before issuing. 79 00:09:24.410 --> 00:09:28.309 Michael Lodder: we need to verify the blind signing request proof. 80 00:09:37.450 --> 00:09:38.950 Stephen Curran: Yeah, I mean, that's 81 00:09:40.330 --> 00:09:41.190 Stephen Curran: okay. 82 00:09:43.900 --> 00:09:52.060 Michael Lodder: Well, as follow up, like as follow up using the following steps, because I was just like what what's going on here. 83 00:09:52.340 --> 00:09:53.660 Stephen Curran: I see what you're saying. 84 00:10:04.700 --> 00:10:11.610 Michael Lodder: Not blinded, linked secret correctness. Purv, it's just a blind, signing request, because maybe in the future you might have more. 85 00:10:13.130 --> 00:10:14.130 Stephen Curran: Okay. 86 00:10:31.170 --> 00:10:35.539 Stephen Curran: I think in the code it's called blinded, linked secret, correct as proof. 87 00:10:36.190 --> 00:10:37.060 Michael Lodder: Hmm! 88 00:10:40.730 --> 00:10:42.310 Michael Lodder: What did you want about it? 89 00:10:42.450 --> 00:10:53.050 Michael Lodder: But I'd like to call the line signing request proof. Because when we go to a non credits, too, that's what it is. But we still have to change the terminology. 90 00:10:53.690 --> 00:10:56.369 Stephen Curran: Blind signing request proof. 91 00:10:56.620 --> 00:10:57.450 Michael Lodder: Yeah. 92 00:10:57.620 --> 00:10:58.510 Stephen Curran: okay? 93 00:10:58.750 --> 00:11:05.439 Michael Lodder: like. If you've got attributes that you want to sign blindly, you have to do a proof 94 00:11:05.800 --> 00:11:12.050 Michael Lodder: that you truly know what those values are. I mean, you didn't just like get them out any other way. 95 00:11:14.000 --> 00:11:15.550 Michael Lodder: That's the whole point of it. 96 00:12:04.890 --> 00:12:05.820 Stephen Curran: Okay. 97 00:12:10.430 --> 00:12:13.310 Stephen Curran: okay, this is more another ticket. 98 00:12:13.430 --> 00:12:16.430 Stephen Curran: so I can likely put that in. 99 00:12:17.700 --> 00:12:18.510 Michael Lodder: Sure. 100 00:12:20.470 --> 00:12:27.999 Stephen Curran: the rest of this looks okay, other than what this gets in. Does the does the math look right? 101 00:12:28.140 --> 00:12:31.930 Michael Lodder: Let's see. I'm looking right now. 102 00:12:33.290 --> 00:12:36.110 Michael Lodder: that looks fine. That looks fine. 103 00:12:39.640 --> 00:12:44.470 Michael Lodder: Trying to understand what 325 is the just. he's just expanding it out. 104 00:12:47.780 --> 00:12:51.490 Michael Lodder: Yeah, okay, he's just expanding it. Okay, yeah, done that. That's fine. 105 00:12:51.760 --> 00:12:52.720 Stephen Curran: Okay? Good. 106 00:13:00.560 --> 00:13:05.729 Stephen Curran: So in theory, we could, I accept this and just clean it up. 107 00:13:07.760 --> 00:13:09.319 Michael Lodder: Yeah, the future. Pr. 108 00:13:09.420 --> 00:13:17.770 Stephen Curran: yeah, okay. I'm going to go ahead and accept it that way. We don't have to worry about when he gets involved again. 109 00:13:19.090 --> 00:14:01.110 Stephen Curran: hey? 110 00:14:30.250 --> 00:14:31.190 Stephen Curran: All right. 111 00:14:36.750 --> 00:14:42.969 Stephen Curran: hey? Tails, file generation again. I'll start with just the 112 00:14:46.250 --> 00:14:47.829 Stephen Curran: This view of it. 113 00:14:50.560 --> 00:14:53.650 Stephen Curran: Our reach is on the call. So, oops! 114 00:14:55.820 --> 00:15:01.420 Stephen Curran: Oh. I always do that the one there we go. 115 00:15:03.240 --> 00:15:06.240 Stephen Curran: Okay, this is tails file generation. 116 00:15:07.450 --> 00:15:09.109 Stephen Curran: which is right here. 117 00:15:10.210 --> 00:15:15.060 Stephen Curran: so change to list of primes to points on the curve. 118 00:15:16.210 --> 00:15:23.370 Stephen Curran: biggest thing I saw here. based on the bug that was found 119 00:15:23.800 --> 00:15:25.789 Stephen Curran: in the generation. 120 00:15:26.450 --> 00:15:32.020 Stephen Curran: It sounds like there's one extra point included. 121 00:15:32.300 --> 00:15:37.990 Stephen Curran: And and that was actually the bug. that's in the implementation. 122 00:15:38.760 --> 00:15:41.879 Stephen Curran: Is that right? that? There's one extra. 123 00:15:48.210 --> 00:15:49.810 Stephen Curran: Mike, are you familiar? 124 00:15:50.970 --> 00:15:57.739 Michael Lodder: I'm sort of familiar with what it what it's doing. But like I, I'm looking at the spec on my screen. 125 00:15:57.850 --> 00:16:01.329 Stephen Curran: Yeah, just to compare what I've got here 126 00:16:01.620 --> 00:16:05.589 Michael Lodder: to see if it's exact. And I wonder if it was just not by one error. 127 00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:08.830 Michael Lodder: Let's see. 128 00:16:13.490 --> 00:16:17.080 Stephen Curran: what I understand. The bug is is the first and the 129 00:16:17.590 --> 00:16:21.220 Stephen Curran: for lack of a better term 130 00:16:21.330 --> 00:16:23.959 Stephen Curran: ones are the same. 131 00:16:26.740 --> 00:16:31.540 Michael Lodder: Oh, I know what it is, it is it is an off by one. So here's so. Here's the bug. 132 00:16:31.630 --> 00:16:40.300 Michael Lodder: When you generate points you're supposed to go to like. Say, I'm going to create L number of credentials in the tail's file 133 00:16:40.430 --> 00:16:41.980 Michael Lodder: to represent that many. 134 00:16:43.030 --> 00:16:45.160 Michael Lodder: It's the great points 135 00:16:45.310 --> 00:16:46.389 Michael Lodder: like, say. 136 00:16:46.760 --> 00:16:52.390 Michael Lodder: index, 1, 2 all the way up to L, and then L, plus 2 all the way to 2 out 137 00:16:53.300 --> 00:16:55.960 Michael Lodder: l. Plus one is special 138 00:16:56.040 --> 00:17:00.100 Michael Lodder: because it's tied to the private key. 139 00:17:00.640 --> 00:17:04.820 Michael Lodder: So by including a point at L one, it allows you to forge anything 140 00:17:07.400 --> 00:17:09.189 Michael Lodder: that one's not supposed to be. Now. 141 00:17:09.609 --> 00:17:15.740 Stephen Curran: okay. so this definitely doesn't include that detail in here. 142 00:17:17.560 --> 00:17:19.270 Michael Lodder: Yeah. So we could add it. 143 00:17:19.910 --> 00:17:21.960 Stephen Curran: okay, so we need to add that 144 00:17:23.900 --> 00:17:27.779 Stephen Curran: the reach or are you taking notes here? 145 00:17:28.240 --> 00:17:30.799 Aritra B.: Yeah. You see. I have noted it. 146 00:17:31.340 --> 00:17:32.610 Michael Lodder: Okay. 147 00:17:32.710 --> 00:17:36.989 Stephen Curran: is that enough detail for you, or to be able to include it? 148 00:17:37.900 --> 00:17:40.389 Aritra B.: Yeah, I mean, I have to just write the 149 00:17:40.600 --> 00:17:47.180 Aritra B.: right? Just that that we are removing the middle point from the tails file so, or else we have to show the maths also. 150 00:17:47.530 --> 00:17:48.390 Stephen Curran: Okay. 151 00:17:49.210 --> 00:17:57.179 Aritra B.: so what? So should I also for the maths? I know. or only just say, that the middle one to the tail file is removed 152 00:17:58.030 --> 00:18:00.380 Aritra B.: because it's associated with the private key. 153 00:18:01.260 --> 00:18:09.560 Michael Lodder: Yeah, just say, it's L one. so that it's the L one index. So basically, you're supposed to create it like one to 2 l. 154 00:18:11.080 --> 00:18:16.450 Michael Lodder: But outlook one the special, for whatever reason. that 155 00:18:16.510 --> 00:18:23.910 Michael Lodder: you know. 5 years ago, when I talked to yon, he he had a decent reason Yan commit. So now I don't remember what that was. 156 00:18:26.560 --> 00:18:29.239 Michael Lodder: I think it was because he wanted 157 00:18:29.800 --> 00:18:38.729 Michael Lodder: it to be on. not as predictable like. If you always pick the first one that makes it easy to guess, whereas if it's somewhere in the middle, it wasn't 158 00:18:41.660 --> 00:18:44.700 Stephen Curran: oh, I see. But he did want to include it. 159 00:18:45.420 --> 00:18:53.550 Michael Lodder: Yeah, like, it has to be there for the for everything to work out. But he said, I just didn't want it as the first few indexes, because it was easy to guess 160 00:18:53.610 --> 00:18:54.890 Michael Lodder: I was like, Oh, okay. 161 00:18:57.220 --> 00:18:59.750 Stephen Curran: but we now we're leaving it out entirely 162 00:19:01.840 --> 00:19:04.409 Michael Lodder: out of the tails file. 163 00:19:04.850 --> 00:19:12.030 Stephen Curran: Yeah, it was never. It was never supposed to be in there. In the first place. 164 00:19:12.530 --> 00:19:13.560 Michael Lodder: that's right. 165 00:19:13.940 --> 00:19:14.640 Stephen Curran: Okay. 166 00:19:17.450 --> 00:19:22.040 Stephen Curran: okay? And I'd leave out the reason why we leave it out to say we leave it out. 167 00:19:27.760 --> 00:19:33.840 Stephen Curran: okay, one to L l, 2 plus to 2 l. 168 00:19:36.210 --> 00:19:38.210 Michael Lodder: that's all in the Pdf. 169 00:19:38.680 --> 00:19:39.600 Stephen Curran: okay. 170 00:19:42.050 --> 00:19:45.570 Stephen Curran: okay? And then the other thing was, 171 00:19:47.340 --> 00:19:49.079 Stephen Curran: okay, this is good. 172 00:19:57.080 --> 00:19:58.560 Stephen Curran: What's this link? 173 00:20:01.460 --> 00:20:02.900 Stephen Curran: Okay? 174 00:20:05.610 --> 00:20:12.170 Stephen Curran: Oh, that's still it to do, anyway. I think this. Oh, you've removed it already. Thank you. 175 00:20:16.810 --> 00:20:27.209 Stephen Curran: Okay. And so this is right. 2 plus 12 times the size of the Revocation registry is is now correct, because the plus 1, one of them will be dropped away. 176 00:20:30.070 --> 00:20:30.790 Michael Lodder: Yeah. 177 00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:32.260 Stephen Curran: Yeah. Okay. 178 00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:41.149 Stephen Curran: Okay. let's a Richard. Can you make those changes and we'll get this one merged? 179 00:20:41.330 --> 00:20:53.529 Stephen Curran: Yeah, I'll update it by today. Oh, oh, you know what I wanted to do, or at least I wanted to ask you about this, Mike. I can add, this is another one. what data would be needed to create some test vectors. 180 00:20:54.620 --> 00:21:00.280 Stephen Curran: I was thinking, if we had Jason that basically produced, you know, like. 181 00:21:00.920 --> 00:21:04.029 Stephen Curran: inputs to this. 182 00:21:06.540 --> 00:21:13.470 Stephen Curran: And then an output tails file in a in, you know, base 64 encoded 183 00:21:14.080 --> 00:21:15.800 Stephen Curran: as a test, vector 184 00:21:16.530 --> 00:21:20.390 Michael Lodder: a text vector to see if you've gender properly generated, a sales file. 185 00:21:20.610 --> 00:21:22.860 Stephen Curran: So what inputs would be needed 186 00:21:23.880 --> 00:21:28.490 Michael Lodder: The main thing you need is the curve and just 187 00:21:28.500 --> 00:21:31.749 Michael Lodder: the gamma, which is one of the private keys. 188 00:21:32.600 --> 00:21:39.139 Stephen Curran: They just say, here's, here's a gamma, that's a test. Vector obviously don't use this in production exactly. 189 00:21:39.830 --> 00:21:41.950 Michael Lodder: And just the curve, and that's it. 190 00:21:41.980 --> 00:21:45.739 Stephen Curran: And what does it mean by the curve? What would that include? 191 00:21:46.000 --> 00:21:47.719 Michael Lodder: Well, like for 192 00:21:48.450 --> 00:21:53.780 Michael Lodder: and not for what we're doing right now and the 193 00:21:53.830 --> 00:22:01.120 Michael Lodder: implementation. I'm just going to call it a non-credit implementation. It's using the Bn 254 curve. 194 00:22:02.550 --> 00:22:05.299 Michael Lodder: But any pairing-friendly curve would work. 195 00:22:05.510 --> 00:22:12.970 Stephen Curran: Okay? So you're saying, you just say what curve type it is. That's what you mean by curve. And then, the gamma being the private key 196 00:22:15.250 --> 00:22:16.370 Michael Lodder: for that. 197 00:22:16.620 --> 00:22:23.139 Stephen Curran: and then from and then you can put in the A base. 64 of the tail. Oh, and the number of credentials. 198 00:22:23.610 --> 00:22:24.440 Michael Lodder: Yeah. 199 00:22:25.290 --> 00:22:30.000 Stephen Curran: And and then the base 64 that you can compare your results to. Okay. 200 00:22:30.390 --> 00:22:31.130 Michael Lodder: yep. 201 00:22:31.330 --> 00:22:38.609 Stephen Curran: I'm gonna put a ticket in that, will we, you know, have a couple of vectors in there that people can use to for testing. 202 00:22:39.500 --> 00:22:47.519 Michael Lodder: Right? Does the curve tells you what? What are the generator points? What's the curve modulus? What you need. You need all of that. So 203 00:22:47.620 --> 00:22:52.049 Michael Lodder: the only the only value you really need is the the gamma 204 00:22:52.060 --> 00:22:54.359 Michael Lodder: and the curve. That's it. 205 00:22:54.850 --> 00:22:55.710 Stephen Curran: Okay. 206 00:22:55.910 --> 00:22:59.509 Stephen Curran: excellent. And I imagine there's some of those in the 207 00:22:59.540 --> 00:23:03.599 Stephen Curran: the existing implementation. I would think so, I should look there. 208 00:23:03.990 --> 00:23:05.089 Michael Lodder: there might be. 209 00:23:05.310 --> 00:23:06.830 Stephen Curran: yeah. Okay. 210 00:23:07.570 --> 00:23:09.250 Michael Lodder: Okay. I don't remember. 211 00:23:11.350 --> 00:23:19.859 Stephen Curran: okay, that one's close. Good Let me get back to her requests. 212 00:23:21.610 --> 00:23:25.369 Stephen Curran: this one. The only thing I was wondering is, is this. 213 00:23:25.560 --> 00:23:33.759 Stephen Curran: specific to and on credits, or did you? Is this just a copy of what's in the Bvs. Plus? 214 00:23:34.840 --> 00:23:37.210 Aritra B.: A few of these are the copy. And 215 00:23:37.420 --> 00:23:44.410 Aritra B.: I found that there are some that are there in and on credits, but not in the Pvs. Whatever I could find, I had added. 216 00:23:44.510 --> 00:23:50.530 Aritra B.: but I'm not sure that there is any that I am. I haven't missed something. So 217 00:23:50.890 --> 00:23:59.000 Stephen Curran: I suspect we can put this in and adjust it later. Mike, do you see anything anyone else see anything that 218 00:24:00.290 --> 00:24:07.109 Stephen Curran: is wrong that would be wrong to put in here. and if there's anything obvious missing, we can add it. 219 00:24:14.740 --> 00:24:19.100 Michael Lodder: and I don't see anything wrong. I just don't know if we need all of it 220 00:24:23.610 --> 00:24:24.940 Stephen Curran: in particular. 221 00:24:26.810 --> 00:24:28.939 Michael Lodder: do we need range 222 00:24:32.130 --> 00:24:34.130 Michael Lodder: like the fourth one down? 223 00:24:36.170 --> 00:24:36.980 Stephen Curran: Yeah. 224 00:24:38.240 --> 00:24:43.769 Michael Lodder: maybe we do. It's hard to say. I mean it doesn't hurt to leave it in for now, because we can always delete it later. 225 00:24:43.890 --> 00:24:46.449 Stephen Curran: Yeah. let's leave it in for now. 226 00:24:50.120 --> 00:24:51.620 Stephen Curran: I think we're good with this one 227 00:24:54.490 --> 00:24:55.620 Stephen Curran: objective. 228 00:24:56.050 --> 00:24:56.820 Stephen Curran: Okay? 229 00:25:16.770 --> 00:25:20.570 Stephen Curran: All right. First, one to reach out nice work. 230 00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:25.069 Stephen Curran: Okay? Last one. 231 00:25:30.260 --> 00:25:37.160 Stephen Curran: Okay, this is the credential definition process Mike, do you want to look at it here? Or 232 00:25:37.610 --> 00:25:38.830 Michael Lodder: but there's fine. 233 00:25:39.040 --> 00:25:39.920 Stephen Curran: Okay? 234 00:25:41.450 --> 00:25:49.660 Stephen Curran: I, Richard, this is the one thing where it would be nice to include a here is where again, it would just happen. 235 00:25:50.210 --> 00:25:51.680 Michael Lodder: We're putting. 236 00:25:52.020 --> 00:25:58.530 Michael Lodder: just put a section in there like section. What is it? 2 or 3, or whatever you find 237 00:25:59.140 --> 00:26:00.790 Michael Lodder: this references. Section 238 00:26:24.400 --> 00:26:25.790 Stephen Curran: anything more. 239 00:26:29.720 --> 00:26:31.649 Michael Lodder: The rest of it looks pretty good. 240 00:26:32.470 --> 00:26:33.310 Stephen Curran: It's 241 00:26:34.460 --> 00:26:36.070 Michael Lodder: I think the rest is fine. 242 00:26:36.590 --> 00:26:41.970 Stephen Curran: Excellent. Okay. okay. 243 00:26:42.860 --> 00:26:52.579 Stephen Curran: should this be to just a matter of interest? Just again, Randy Pot for me. Is this a link in an on credits? Rs, or should this be to cl signatures 244 00:26:57.040 --> 00:26:58.020 Stephen Curran: repo. 245 00:27:00.910 --> 00:27:03.080 Michael Lodder: Is there a Cl signatures repo? 246 00:27:03.400 --> 00:27:06.840 Stephen Curran: There is an oncred Cl signatures. Is the new 247 00:27:07.030 --> 00:27:08.739 Stephen Curran: replacement for Hersa. 248 00:27:12.940 --> 00:27:14.729 Stephen Curran: so I could click this link. And 249 00:27:15.360 --> 00:27:22.790 Michael Lodder: oh, cause I thought, I thought, okay, so you're extracting out the primitives from the actual protocol. 250 00:27:22.890 --> 00:27:26.619 Michael Lodder: And they were all meshed as one which I hated. 251 00:27:29.640 --> 00:27:32.680 Michael Lodder: So, yeah, this is, this is part of 252 00:27:34.350 --> 00:27:43.179 Stephen Curran: okay. So should this. For some reason, I'm having trouble clicking on a link. You know how tough that is. 253 00:27:48.610 --> 00:27:50.770 Stephen Curran: oh, nice. 254 00:27:55.880 --> 00:27:57.679 Michael Lodder: I love leaving out the age. 255 00:28:16.990 --> 00:28:22.110 Stephen Curran: Yeah. So this presumably calls. This is the call into our signatures. Right? 256 00:28:25.060 --> 00:28:25.930 Michael Lodder: Yeah. 257 00:28:26.140 --> 00:28:26.800 Stephen Curran: Yeah. 258 00:28:28.950 --> 00:28:37.190 Michael Lodder: Like to me, eventually it could be renamed to sign. which would be very helpful instead of new, credential, deaf. 259 00:28:40.970 --> 00:28:44.359 Stephen Curran: So if if a richer, you could change that one 260 00:28:44.920 --> 00:28:48.589 Stephen Curran: to a link directly into the Cl signatures repo. 261 00:28:50.130 --> 00:28:52.870 Stephen Curran: That would probably be a little better. 262 00:28:54.120 --> 00:28:57.350 Aritra B.: Okay, so I have to link the 263 00:28:57.580 --> 00:29:03.120 Aritra B.: the signing the creation of public key. 264 00:29:03.310 --> 00:29:04.380 Stephen Curran: That's function. 265 00:29:04.820 --> 00:29:05.600 Aritra B.: Okay? 266 00:29:18.540 --> 00:29:22.340 Stephen Curran: Yeah. Okay, good. Excellent. Okay. 267 00:29:24.130 --> 00:29:26.260 Stephen Curran: all right. 268 00:29:27.290 --> 00:29:32.670 Stephen Curran: good stuff. And we'll keep going with updates. over the next while. 269 00:29:33.090 --> 00:29:38.539 Stephen Curran: I wanted to get into So, as I said, DC, Gov is thinking of putting out a 270 00:29:38.690 --> 00:29:47.070 Stephen Curran: doing work, possibly by a code with us to support W. 3 C. Credentials with an ongrad. 271 00:29:47.370 --> 00:30:00.749 Stephen Curran: John Jordan came up with this term flux correct, which is a a thing that basically a rif off of what managed for me. And and I'll John talked about where 272 00:30:01.320 --> 00:30:08.520 Stephen Curran: by putting an on cred a signature on a what amounts to a a data integrity proof. 273 00:30:09.080 --> 00:30:22.649 Stephen Curran: We can have multiple signatures on a single credential. And this signature, as well as in an on cred, so that we have flexible credentials that can be used in multiple scenarios. So that's the goal of this. 274 00:30:24.130 --> 00:30:36.380 Stephen Curran: we want to produce and consume it on credits. Vcs and W. 3 C. Format such that we can FET, fade out the An on print format and only use the W. 3 C. Format. So that would be 275 00:30:36.570 --> 00:30:42.920 Stephen Curran: where we're going long term. this idea of flex grant siding with multiple signatures. So 276 00:30:43.230 --> 00:30:53.120 Stephen Curran: again, so dhs, for example, can use these and and other government organizations that must be able to support missed signatures. 277 00:30:53.300 --> 00:30:55.469 Stephen Curran: They. They have a. 278 00:30:55.560 --> 00:31:09.049 Stephen Curran: you see, with both. When they use the nest. They use the privacy conver features. but but they can use them as the fall back and use it on credits primary, and get the privacy preserving features of an on credits. 279 00:31:09.320 --> 00:31:12.880 Stephen Curran: eventually do the same with Jwt, so that. 280 00:31:13.120 --> 00:31:21.039 Stephen Curran: again, we can have multiple signatures on a credential but in Jwt format versus the data integrity proof. 281 00:31:21.960 --> 00:31:26.969 Stephen Curran: And for the data integrity proof. again, I 282 00:31:27.430 --> 00:31:30.359 Stephen Curran: for those familiar with Jason, Ld. 283 00:31:30.470 --> 00:31:41.870 Stephen Curran: we don't have a way in it on cred to say, Oh, this is the context I want to use. So the context would be predefined, and we would use what's called the vocab feature 284 00:31:42.660 --> 00:31:45.670 Stephen Curran: and vocab, basically says. 285 00:31:45.860 --> 00:31:55.720 Stephen Curran: here's the Json. Ld, I'm going to use it. Anything that is not defined in the context that I've used. Here's a a generic 286 00:31:56.350 --> 00:32:01.569 Stephen Curran: string, basically to use for any undefined 287 00:32:01.800 --> 00:32:03.560 Stephen Curran: attribute. 288 00:32:03.580 --> 00:32:10.979 Stephen Curran: And so for the attributes within the credential itself, we use the vocab, and then we wouldn't have to have a specific 289 00:32:11.040 --> 00:32:13.100 Stephen Curran: Jason, Ld. 290 00:32:13.640 --> 00:32:17.330 Stephen Curran: context for the 291 00:32:17.640 --> 00:32:22.099 Stephen Curran: for the attributes in the schema itself. 292 00:32:24.440 --> 00:32:27.870 Stephen Curran: yeah, Steve. 293 00:32:28.320 --> 00:32:38.569 Steve McCown: yeah. Just real quick question on your first bullet on the last slide. using w threec. Form that and paid out a non-creds format. 294 00:32:38.670 --> 00:32:44.999 Steve McCown: So the W. Threec format right now allows you to use Cl signatures in a zk, 295 00:32:45.250 --> 00:32:49.490 Steve McCown: so is is that where you're heading? Or 296 00:32:50.720 --> 00:33:02.550 Steve McCown: that's that's the the direction then, to cause that's an optional right now with, and I was hoping that would become less optional. Doing is allowing 297 00:33:02.680 --> 00:33:12.110 Stephen Curran: you know, allowing, and a non-credit signature to be a proof sorry and an oncredit proof to be attached into the proof 298 00:33:12.170 --> 00:33:17.179 Stephen Curran: of a W. Threec. Format. Json, Ld. Data, integrity proof. 299 00:33:17.510 --> 00:33:18.870 Stephen Curran: and with that 300 00:33:18.980 --> 00:33:24.389 Stephen Curran: it it gets processed, used completely as it, and on credits. 301 00:33:24.610 --> 00:33:28.409 Stephen Curran: you know, blinded links. It linked secret. 302 00:33:28.630 --> 00:33:30.449 Stephen Curran: you know. No subject. 303 00:33:31.280 --> 00:33:35.029 Stephen Curran: all of the same things you get in and on credits. But 304 00:33:35.070 --> 00:33:40.550 Stephen Curran: the wrapping, the the data structure is W. Threec format compliant. 305 00:33:42.240 --> 00:33:57.709 Stephen Curran: Okay? Awesome that I just wanted to clarify as we got started. I'm I I I think this is excellent. Keep going 306 00:33:57.830 --> 00:34:08.409 Stephen Curran: shared that with the you know the Json Ld. Folks we've done at. In fact, Patrick, say that we did an actual demo of this, using a 307 00:34:08.550 --> 00:34:21.770 Stephen Curran: W. 3 C. Wallet and exchanging the credentials. And it it all worked. So this is to sort of complete the transition from proof of concepts into real real use. 308 00:34:23.179 --> 00:34:37.889 Stephen Curran: So the first work before for coding would be to formalize the the transformations that happen. Because really, that's all. It is you, we're just doing a transformation of the data elements into different places. 309 00:34:38.139 --> 00:34:59.279 Stephen Curran: But it's just simply moving Json elements around so align with the data. Integrity. Proof. standard is a a question I've really got to ask of Menu and Dave Longley. When they saw this, they said, oh, this looks really good. There's a couple of things we'd like you to align with the data integrity proof. So I I just have to find out what those are. 310 00:34:59.350 --> 00:35:12.089 Stephen Curran: so that one's kind of a just ask some questions and and read through the data integrity proof. for those not familiar with data. And Taylor deproof is really 311 00:35:12.370 --> 00:35:19.070 Stephen Curran: the basis of a W threec, Json, Ld. Credential. 312 00:35:19.410 --> 00:35:38.360 Stephen Curran: the data integrity proof is the actual proof format. And then the W. 3 C. Is really just a profile that says, Oh, by the way, you're going to use data integrity proof. But you're also going to have these specific things that are required or or optionally used 313 00:35:38.590 --> 00:35:45.730 Stephen Curran: in that proof. So you can use a data integrity proof for everything for it to be a a verifiable credential that must have certain 314 00:35:45.740 --> 00:35:48.419 Stephen Curran: constraints on it. But that's it. 315 00:35:49.900 --> 00:35:51.910 Stephen Curran: start with the vocab. 316 00:35:52.380 --> 00:35:57.070 Stephen Curran: Issue. Date is a required field. 317 00:35:57.160 --> 00:36:01.169 Stephen Curran: in a non credits. Obviously it might be 318 00:36:01.200 --> 00:36:13.609 Stephen Curran: within the schema, so there might be a an issue date within the schema, or it might have to be added, because it's not part of the schema. Obviously, if it's added, it's not signed 319 00:36:13.650 --> 00:36:20.109 Stephen Curran: with an on credit. So that's an interesting attribute. So we want to to find the handling of that. 320 00:36:20.520 --> 00:36:22.180 Michael Lodder: Why would it not be signed? 321 00:36:22.570 --> 00:36:25.060 Stephen Curran: So 322 00:36:25.560 --> 00:36:30.569 Stephen Curran: the way we do this, I should have this up. So let me just open this up. 323 00:36:30.820 --> 00:36:36.759 Stephen Curran: let's see. 324 00:36:42.150 --> 00:36:47.659 Michael Lodder: my thoughts are the the BC. Is just exactly that. It's just a data format. 325 00:36:47.850 --> 00:36:53.400 Michael Lodder: You don't have to store it as that. You can store the credential. However, you want. 326 00:36:53.810 --> 00:36:57.379 Michael Lodder: and then it just becomes like a transport or map. 327 00:36:58.130 --> 00:37:07.050 Stephen Curran: Yes, that's basically what we're doing. So this is what a what it looks like in a non credits format. This is a a credential. 328 00:37:07.200 --> 00:37:12.560 Stephen Curran: So if I come over here and I look at this one. This is what it looks like now in a on credits format. 329 00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:16.510 Stephen Curran: So it's a single name. Attribute 330 00:37:16.920 --> 00:37:25.679 Stephen Curran: Alice Jones, and it's got an encoding. And then here are the various elements all around it that are in the non credits. Okay. 331 00:37:26.990 --> 00:37:33.970 Stephen Curran: in W. Threec, it looks like this. This is where the actual data is stored. 332 00:37:35.590 --> 00:37:42.159 Stephen Curran: This is essentially a base 64 of all of those other attributes that we're in it. 333 00:37:43.160 --> 00:37:47.190 Stephen Curran: a few things go here. 334 00:37:48.050 --> 00:37:52.120 Stephen Curran: but we've got this issuance date that is. 335 00:37:52.430 --> 00:37:58.519 Stephen Curran: outside of what is signed so and on. Credit simply signs these elements right? 336 00:37:58.980 --> 00:38:13.059 Stephen Curran: Plus. It, adds the the link secret. This is outside of what would be signed by an on. So that's why I'm saying not signed as part of this signal. It's not part of this signature. 337 00:38:13.660 --> 00:38:16.209 Michael Lodder: Well, couldn't you just add it in there 338 00:38:16.360 --> 00:38:20.140 Michael Lodder: and then, when you're when you're translating formats, you just 339 00:38:20.270 --> 00:38:21.520 Michael Lodder: paste it in there. 340 00:38:21.820 --> 00:38:33.900 Stephen Curran: there's ways to do that, but it's a bi-directional transformation. So whichever, when you start with, you have to be able to loop back and and produce it. So that's why I'm saying we've got to define how we handle it. 341 00:38:34.990 --> 00:38:36.270 Stephen Curran: Does that make sense? 342 00:38:36.460 --> 00:38:38.820 Stephen Curran: There's there's things you can do. I'm 343 00:38:38.910 --> 00:38:41.610 Stephen Curran: have to formalize. Okay, here's what we're gonna do. 344 00:38:42.920 --> 00:38:54.860 Stephen Curran: That's probably the trickiest feature, because it is a required field in and on preparing in W Threec. It is the only required field. So if I come back to this thing 345 00:38:55.390 --> 00:39:01.840 Stephen Curran: I don't have. Normally you would have a subject in here, or an id for the subject 346 00:39:01.940 --> 00:39:11.130 Stephen Curran: not necessary. And so we actually don't have it. although. you know, obviously in a schema you could put 347 00:39:11.410 --> 00:39:17.859 Stephen Curran: the subject in, and you can put issue with state into here. So that's one way to handle it. Does that make sense? 348 00:39:18.120 --> 00:39:20.430 Michael Lodder: That's what I do in the non credits, too? 349 00:39:20.460 --> 00:39:25.260 Stephen Curran: And I just use the Rfc, 339 350 00:39:25.580 --> 00:39:28.090 Stephen Curran: 333 90 iso dates. 351 00:39:29.200 --> 00:39:30.359 Michael Lodder: Sorry. 352 00:39:30.420 --> 00:39:33.629 Michael Lodder: Rfc. 3, 3 and a 9, 353 00:39:34.220 --> 00:39:48.200 Stephen Curran: yeah, 3, 3, 3, 9. That's date and time time time on the Internet. Timestamp. What? Yup, that's what what I was. Yeah, that's exactly what we talked about last week in the yeah, that we would use that and then encode it. 354 00:39:48.320 --> 00:39:52.549 Michael Lodder: They also correspond. The Iso 801. So 355 00:39:52.650 --> 00:39:54.940 Michael Lodder: you could say, it's a combination of both. 356 00:39:55.030 --> 00:39:57.140 Stephen Curran: Iso, yeah, that's it. Okay. 357 00:39:57.310 --> 00:40:02.040 Stephen Curran: versus. I didn't know that. Yeah, I didn't recognize the number 8, 601. I recognize 358 00:40:03.710 --> 00:40:18.689 Stephen Curran: we've got to make sure that all of these are supported in the Revocation, in both the issuance and in the presentation. and then reveal them unrevealed and self attested in the 359 00:40:19.690 --> 00:40:22.399 Stephen Curran: verifiable presentation 360 00:40:22.660 --> 00:40:23.670 Stephen Curran: format. 361 00:40:25.520 --> 00:40:33.779 Stephen Curran: we document the actual transformation. So Andrew has implemented all of these things. So there's there's code 362 00:40:34.590 --> 00:40:37.070 Stephen Curran: to actually do this. 363 00:40:37.240 --> 00:40:50.829 Stephen Curran: it's just a question of exactly what they do. So he's written up the code to to do the transformation whoops. That's the wrong repo. That's what I thought, it looks a little easier than that. 364 00:40:53.480 --> 00:40:57.030 Stephen Curran: so basically, he's 365 00:40:57.140 --> 00:41:00.290 Stephen Curran: got a a decode in an in code 366 00:41:01.740 --> 00:41:11.760 Stephen Curran: or sorry a 2 W threec. And a decode W, 3 C, which basically just manipulates the data to move it in and out of that signature field. 367 00:41:12.220 --> 00:41:18.809 Stephen Curran: So we wind up with the actual data elements. and it's just a a pretty simple transformation. 368 00:41:19.670 --> 00:41:23.449 Stephen Curran: There's the 2 in the from sorry. That's the 2. And the from 369 00:41:23.830 --> 00:41:28.400 Stephen Curran: so just documenting that? So we have it. 370 00:41:28.840 --> 00:41:32.880 Stephen Curran: document, how to handle multi-signature. Vcs. 371 00:41:32.900 --> 00:41:39.569 Stephen Curran: this is where again coming back to this format where 372 00:41:39.920 --> 00:41:50.429 Stephen Curran: there's multiple proofs in here. So there's a there would be a comma here with a NIST, a type of nest signature and a and another signature field. 373 00:41:53.750 --> 00:42:01.989 Michael Lodder: Yeah. So 1 one in one implementation. We did. Steve was or Steven. Sorry was we just put 374 00:42:02.020 --> 00:42:05.389 Michael Lodder: in the proof field we put 375 00:42:06.200 --> 00:42:07.060 Michael Lodder: pipes. 376 00:42:07.730 --> 00:42:18.570 Michael Lodder: and it was an array array of objects. So then they look similar to this, or we'd say, 5 steel Sig encoding whatever signature, whatever value. 377 00:42:18.680 --> 00:42:23.259 Michael Lodder: you know, and so on. So we have multiple values in there. 378 00:42:23.770 --> 00:42:31.890 Stephen Curran: And that's exactly what. yeah, that's the plan for what? What? for doing that with nest signatures and so on 379 00:42:33.360 --> 00:42:43.279 Stephen Curran: longer term phone possibilities, as I mentioned using the same thing, but using Jwt's. And then this one's a little 380 00:42:43.300 --> 00:42:44.640 Stephen Curran: obscure. 381 00:42:44.960 --> 00:42:58.799 Stephen Curran: so I I don't have to go into this one. But for those who understand Jason Le. And what a data integrated group does, it's basically signing the entire contact. So it is signed signs the 382 00:42:59.260 --> 00:43:25.480 Stephen Curran: context of the credential plus the data values within it. That's that's essentially what's being signed. So the one thing, obviously, and on credit signs the data values, but it doesn't sign. Well, the encoded data values, but it doesn't sign the Jsonlde because it has no concept of Jsonlde. But there are ways that we could possibly do that. that I've come up with, or 383 00:43:25.770 --> 00:43:29.820 Stephen Curran: thought of, and may or may not want to go further with that. 384 00:43:30.990 --> 00:43:45.269 Stephen Curran: So that's formalizing what we're gonna do. Then the next one is coding it. So the ability to receive a current credential signed with an on A on cred, but in W 3 C format 385 00:43:46.030 --> 00:43:51.390 Stephen Curran: and basically it's just transform it into an on credits and process it. 386 00:43:52.030 --> 00:44:10.030 Stephen Curran: you want to retain the the client, the holder would want to retain both forms in case there's multiple signatures on it, so they they might want to hold on to the A non credits format. They might want to hold on to the W. 3 C. Format, so they might have both. 387 00:44:10.150 --> 00:44:40.780 Stephen Curran: for this I'm not entirely sure where the line is between an oncredit Rs. The In on credits, implementation, and storage. Where is the line between, say, occupy, and a on credits and the storage area's frame where Javascript and on credits and the storage. So this is just a clarification to be done. How much of it is done in an on Credits library itself, and how much is just left to the holder software to handle. 388 00:44:43.220 --> 00:44:54.280 Stephen Curran: receiving a verified presentation in W. Threec format at at minimum transform and process and return. A, you know. verified, not verified. 389 00:44:54.470 --> 00:45:07.390 Stephen Curran: and then there's a question of whether return the data in both the W. 3 C. Format that it was received in, and then on credit, so that it could be saved in in either format. 390 00:45:09.680 --> 00:45:17.950 Stephen Curran: Then, once we're able to handle receiving them. We obviously want to generate them. So an option in 391 00:45:18.060 --> 00:45:25.759 Stephen Curran: in the generate for the Vc. To say, Hey, I want to put the data in and on credits of W. Threec. Format 392 00:45:26.140 --> 00:45:36.480 Stephen Curran: you may have received the data. not just in an on credits format, but in W. 3 C. Format already, perhaps with the proof already on it. 393 00:45:36.740 --> 00:45:50.300 Stephen Curran: So the idea there would be. You receive a W. Threec. Proof, but you want it and then on credit signature attached to it. So an additional proof added, so that may be, the operation being done, in which case. 394 00:45:50.510 --> 00:46:02.950 Stephen Curran: you need to take the data out of the format it's in now generated and on credits matching the schema and the credential definition being used, transforms W. 3 C format. 395 00:46:03.070 --> 00:46:04.740 Stephen Curran: potentially adding. 396 00:46:04.810 --> 00:46:18.989 Stephen Curran: the credential to the sign and handing it back. And then this is some notes on, you know the issue date field. Whether it's part of the schema or whether it's not included in the schema and what to do about it. 397 00:46:22.530 --> 00:46:40.959 Stephen Curran: Same thing with verifiable presentation format. Obviously there would never be multiple signatures on it in this case. So it's a matter of just generating the on credits, transforming it to the Vp and returning it with the issue date set to the current date time. That was easy. 398 00:46:43.430 --> 00:47:02.850 Stephen Curran: and then finally, a demonstration of it by putting encoding it in occupy, adding flood, adding, ability to do multiple signatures on a single one. So what's the Api look like in Acupy? What is the Api look like to say, Hey, I want this in W. Threec format. 399 00:47:03.660 --> 00:47:10.369 Stephen Curran: My hope is that with doing that we get all the features we need 400 00:47:12.190 --> 00:47:19.680 Stephen Curran: in a you know, if I define this as a as a task for a developer, can we get all the way through that? 401 00:47:20.340 --> 00:47:33.920 Stephen Curran: again? I I don't know if people have any feedback on that plan. But the, as I say, the idea would be to put this to find this as a package and say, This is what we want done 402 00:47:34.110 --> 00:47:42.559 Stephen Curran: as a coding exercise. We'll probably do this part ahead of time, so decisions are made ahead of time. But the rest of this 403 00:47:42.790 --> 00:47:47.130 Stephen Curran: would be a a code project 404 00:47:47.170 --> 00:47:53.369 Stephen Curran: that we would publish out, possibly with with funding attached to say, Hey, implement this. 405 00:47:59.810 --> 00:48:03.099 Stephen Curran: So I don't know if people have feedback on that interest 406 00:48:10.220 --> 00:48:26.019 Stephen Curran: all right. If as I say, we're likely. BC, I was thinking of posting this, so we would. We'll definitely let people know when this is is posted and out there. If that gets done, and and encourage folks to 407 00:48:26.500 --> 00:48:35.299 Stephen Curran: think about implementing it. If anyone wants to contribute, or wants to help to find the direction of this. welcome your feedback on in doing that. 408 00:48:38.030 --> 00:48:39.310 Stephen Curran: All right. 409 00:48:40.070 --> 00:48:53.040 Stephen Curran: The last thing was, is there any other topics people want to talk about on this call, or is there any other topics to go over? 410 00:49:00.750 --> 00:49:04.870 Stephen Curran: We'll do, Steve. I'll post the slides and share that 411 00:49:10.830 --> 00:49:13.479 Stephen Curran: all right. Productive meeting. Thank you all. 412 00:49:15.340 --> 00:49:21.759 Stephen Curran: So anyone has any questions or comments or anything. Let's go back and forth on discord. 413 00:49:22.010 --> 00:49:36.430 Stephen Curran: a richer is going to keep working with Mike on doing additional parts. I have some to do in the specification to work on, so we should have a few more things in the next couple of weeks to talk about on the next call 414 00:49:37.530 --> 00:49:42.719 Stephen Curran: next week we'll The plan is to do some more on 415 00:49:42.760 --> 00:49:46.649 Stephen Curran: and our price, too. So next week it's the later 416 00:49:46.810 --> 00:49:49.190 Stephen Curran: call, and we'll do. I know it credits to 417 00:49:52.640 --> 00:49:53.650 Stephen Curran: all right. 418 00:49:54.720 --> 00:49:57.929 Stephen Curran: Thanks. All have a great week. 419 00:49:59.160 --> 00:50:00.020 Michael Lodder: Thanks. 420 00:50:00.430 --> 00:50:02.060 Rodolfo Miranda: Thank you, everyone. 421 00:50:02.270 --> 00:50:04.270 Matteo Midena: Thank you. Bye. 422 00:50:04.780 --> 00:50:06.110 Bruno Evaristo: thank you. Bye, bye.