Alex Metcalf: Good morning.
Helen Garneau: hey? Can you have 1 s? I am trying to set somebody else up on a different meeting. So just gonna go on mute, but feel free to welcome folks as they come in.
Alex Metcalf: Yeah.
Alex Metcalf: I shall be a couple of minutes. We saw that here.
Sean Mouton: And actually, I'm gonna pop out and then come back. So if you guys, Alex, you want to
Helen Garneau: get started or just hang on 1 s, that's I'll I'll be back.
Alex Metcalf: Okay? Sorry about that.
Helen Garneau: Perfect, very efficient. Everyone. Okay. So opening up the meeting.
Helen Garneau: agenda.
Helen Garneau: Oh, yeah, for July 20, fifth, perfect.
Helen Garneau: Let me share my screen.
Helen Garneau: Awesome. Well, welcome everybody to the Aries marketing working group. Call for July. We meet once a month to discuss every, all things. Marketing related to Aries, and hope to have more kind of voices and thoughts and ideas
Helen Garneau: kind of emerge as we move forward and kind of updating and refreshing. the messaging and kind of public facing content and inscriptions for Aries.
Helen Garneau: If you want to add your information to this, let me. I think I can just put the link in the chat.
Helen Garneau: and so again, my name is Helen Darnell. I'm from in DC, Alex, would you like to introduce yourself.
Alex Metcalf: Yeah, Alex. Smith, of working with coming to British Columbia.
Helen Garneau: and shaun I know we've crossed pads. Can you remind me what we are going to do. Oh, yes, Shaun Tom from Epsa, South Africa.
Sean Mouton: I heard about this last week. Now, for the life of the I can't remember it told me.
Helen Garneau: okay, well, welcome. yeah. We have been talking a little bit about this group and the formation of this group over the last couple of months. in the the regular areas working group call. So you might have heard it
Helen Garneau: talked about there. but yeah, we did a little work in our last meeting. talking about how to describe Aries, what elements that we needed? to kind of hear from the community about. So we I had created a survey to receive some of those, some information, just some opinions about kind of what's missing and what we should be doing. And we got those survey results back. And Alex has done a beautiful job kind of
Helen Garneau: formulating all of those, all that feedback and all our conversations into a deck. Alex, would you like to share your screen and just present, and we could talk about what we have what you have.
Helen Garneau: Yeah, absolutely. Give me 2 min here. I don't know to miss this. I can see it
Alex Metcalf: often. The sided presentation thing where you.
Alex Metcalf: He stands side in front of people, and it feels like an age. But it's actually quite a long time. We will start to get uncomfortable way long, and it feels like when you're presenting playing with that when I'm doing presentations. All right, we share this window up here.
Helen Garneau: There was a
Helen Garneau: a person named Nathan George, who was one of the first kind of leaders of the working group, calls from Indy, and and who was at sovereign and Now he's at Kiva, I believe, and he would say, Oh, does anybody have any comments or questions? And he would like he. He would give a solid minute, or like 90 s of like, wait time before he would move on, and so we called it a Nathan like a unit of so that's where that's what a Nathan is.
Alex Metcalf: That's wonderful. okay, here we go.
Alex Metcalf: how you know this, but they're recording to show them as well. And that's don't you? What we did and what we found here. These are the results. Obviously we put out about 3. Come on 3 weeks ago, now, running for a couple of weeks, promoting the various places various
Alex Metcalf: the working group. And you put on the email list the Hyper Ledge discord Server.
Alex Metcalf: Then if your organizations got 16 responses back.
Alex Metcalf: which is to say, this is not in any way a statistically valid.
Alex Metcalf: So the results it's more of indicative items like, you know, if you just see one prompting comment to open up a new avenue of thinking, which is what it did.
Alex Metcalf: So should be taken with that. We haven't got any. We purpose in recording the demographic information about the people, all their employment, and so forth. So we also know the skew of this. There could be some really great opinions out there about
Alex Metcalf: Aries, and it's important features that are not reflected here. But with all those caveats set we got some good things out of it. So just recap the results now. and just talk about the rather than dive into the actual numbers.
Alex Metcalf: We had a like a question out of the gate from not important to very important. The 5 point scale about how important people think Ares features are to a business person, and we gave them a whole bunch to choose from.
Alex Metcalf: Now this is to get a sense of how we want to prioritize how we write about Aries, because from some questions we asked in the working group, going back about 2 months now, each person has a different
Alex Metcalf: summary of what they thought was important, but areas, how they describe it. So we'll say, Okay, is it? Is it that it's for identity solutions? Is it the is privacy? preserving important? What about the fact? You can make wallets with it if you want to have that note right up front. Is that not clear? How about it's future proof all these kind of things.
Alex Metcalf: So these are the bar graphs that where they skew high to the right-hand side, that means more support. With this queue high to the left it means less support.
Alex Metcalf: apart from the first very first call, which is how they use, which is that don't no answer.
Alex Metcalf: So most of these results in line with what we thought identity solutions being the strongest
Alex Metcalf: people looking for the application for identity. So that makes a ton of sense. It's good to have that backup complete toolk a lot to support, using other credentials for high blue bar there, like W. 3 C. Credentials.
Alex Metcalf: mixed response, which is interesting to me about wallets and agents in that. we thought there might be. I thought there might be more people saying, yes, it's really important. You say, right up front. You can make your own agents with this to do A, B and C,
Alex Metcalf: that may be important. This is not again the whole community. They are surprised not to see that when they hire. So it's like, Okay, it's not. And putting these lower doesn't mean we're not going to talk about them. It means you may not talk about them as probably right up front.
Alex Metcalf: So I think those are the main takeaways from this is that
Alex Metcalf: Wallace and agent would as important as saying, You can apply this for identity. You can apply this, and it has
Alex Metcalf: of multiple credential support.
Alex Metcalf: I only the one that was negatively against people saying we don't.
Alex Metcalf: the response, saying, we don't really care that it doesn't require blockchain. That wasn't the high priority feature
Alex Metcalf: that may have applicability to a mark in the misunderstanding. There's been some talking in in the EU about these aspects, but
Alex Metcalf: in terms of priority, features response that wasn't one of them.
Alex Metcalf: So then we have. I'll go to these, these, these results, and a bit more detailed to the the working group last week, and I'll leave some space in the
Sean Mouton: on. So on. The create agents is is that in relation to
Sean Mouton: is that it? The people you spoke to already have agents talking to the ledges that they require?
Alex Metcalf: we don't have that information, but my, from from doing a lot of survey work. My interpretation is.
Alex Metcalf: it's not important.
Alex Metcalf: when talking to a business person, to mention what it's an agents upfront. They're more trust in the solution it provides rather than the.
Alex Metcalf: So then we asked the same questions again, but we asked the person that there was. We asked respondents, what about to developer.
Alex Metcalf: and these are much more apart from wide, as mentioned. All the same things apply apart from the feelings of the charts. Open source. Yes, I open stand it? Yes, huge support, multiple. I just that kind of makes sense.
Alex Metcalf: And
Alex Metcalf: again, the same trends to the business people applied to developers. So that's kind of interesting steer that, you know. We'll still mentioned solutions that involve walls and agents, and we'll still mention the fact that It doesn't require a lot chambers like to put that, you know, as high priority in a hierarchy of things. You tell people when you first introduce them to areas. If we will come to in a minute.
Alex Metcalf: We ask them any other suggestions of things that are important to mention.
Alex Metcalf: some good, some good things came up. These are more like, you know, prompting food for thought items. what's the conformity like for existing standards? how about for government level density? And Kyc needs.
Alex Metcalf: What's the time to mark how you know? Where is this ready to go? Do you have to build top of what? What's it come with?
Alex Metcalf: cryptography. Who's is it being externally reviewed by a you know, with the pie all this kind of things. So this is interesting list to come back to as we evolve how we describe our areas.
Alex Metcalf: a lot of these I hadn't thought about before in the first summary, and hadn't been prompted by talking to the community about it. It was good to get these responses.
Alex Metcalf: and then we had a free text question, saying, You know, go out, or what else we missed
Alex Metcalf: with that couple with the free, the the free text. We asked people to give us a whole bunch of materials that they thought would be great for people starting news areas. So we also respond this, if you, you know, developers can be new to this, a business. Can you use Aries, where do you send them? What's that? Bookmarks? Pdf, you like? What's that video that course we got a whole bunch of suggestions which we've collated? And we'll put onto a first pass of a getting started section.
Alex Metcalf: And with all that areas materials. And we can refine this. And the idea is that we're going to build a community. Well, this is not for me and Helen to try. And
Alex Metcalf: you know, micro managers are saying, Here's a place, guys. If you have somebody you always send them. People put it here and reduce the work to everybody else. They can kind of get started. So we have about.
Alex Metcalf: I want to say about 30 links that people provided which is very helpful.
Alex Metcalf: feel the suggestions. it's actually comparing areas to alternatives. It's a good point.
Alex Metcalf: Develop. FAQ,
Alex Metcalf: that's gonna a massive on the fax using most. Send you covered off the well structure information and it becomes a bit of a a catch. It's not looked after it, but it could be fa cues about things that people often ask that we could address our right in that format. So
Alex Metcalf: I think it's another there.
Alex Metcalf: explanation of areas, shorter, longer versions.
Alex Metcalf: Great idea takes work might be a community thing to contribute.
Alex Metcalf: And then this is a good prompting question to. So we're into. I'll just finish it, as someone said. The sooner we can be the Hyper Ledger pages about Aries the better.
Alex Metcalf: and we have some materials that just
Alex Metcalf: daily for the launch of areas. So 2,019 more technical in nature.
Alex Metcalf: don't reflect the latest use cases. And now, in some cases are incorrect.
Alex Metcalf: and all those put together. a. For us to get something
Alex Metcalf: updates as soon as possible. We can cover in a minute.
So
Alex Metcalf: very helpful results which basically said, I think, how do you find the same thing that we were on the right track? We want to make sure that we were not presuming something about writing my areas that the community wasn't in line with. And this is not in any way physically valid. in terms of, you know. quant analysis. we do get some some indications that we're on the right track, and how we describing this.
Alex Metcalf: So so it's not just the Alex talking show. How do you want the bridge into how we're going to be applying this to? Do you want to show a description you've come up with, or how we're going to apply it to the formats of them.
Helen Garneau: all right. Good. Yeah. I think if you haven't, if you have met at at at the tip of your fingers. That'd be helpful. But I'll just add that, yeah, I I I definitely want this to be a collaborative effort. And it's also going to, you know, have lots of versioning getting something out with sort of a a baseline update across the wiki across the actual hyper ledger. Ares page that pops up when you like the the highest ranked page. When when you do a search for Aries, getting those items
Helen Garneau: refreshed and updated, and then continue to iterate, I think, is going to be the best way moving forward. I would love to, you know, see more kind of implementation
Helen Garneau: used cases, examples of implementation. in a section I would love to have. Yeah, more video content, more contributions from the community in terms of marketing support of in terms of like white papers and longer form. You know, reading materials, I mean, all of this kind of conversation came out of The. I guess it was like 6 weeks ago now, and maybe 2 months ago, that
Helen Garneau: They were talking about the open wallet foundation, and somebody was saying, you know, I'm out in in the community, in in business meetings with potential customers, and they want to hear about a wallet and a wallet is so important, and that's what we should talk about. We don't ever talk about waltz and Aries.
Helen Garneau: And we're like, Yeah, then we should change it. And I think, you know, there's some opportunity to find that middle ground for Aries. if it's a community, if it's communication or messaging problems, and then we should absolutely change it. So this is that opportunity to get started. But it's by no means the the end result that we're never gonna change moving forward so hopefully, this, this we, you know, we get this update going. And then we keep moving
Alex Metcalf: absolutely. So on the screen share in front of you. It is a draft of the content I'll position this we're going to come up with like
Alex Metcalf: this is a like a core description of Aries as a sort of middle ish technical layer. And we're going to apply in 3 places. the landing page for the hyper ledger Wiki pages for areas. So when you come to Aries, and that's one of the main ones that comes up depending on your search engine and your hit in your search history. That could be first, the second one is the Hyper Ledger website.
Alex Metcalf: Now, we can't update that one. Right now, I do some practicalities. We might be able to find a way a way around that. But that's because they are refreshing this site.
Alex Metcalf: And they got a bit of a freeze on Content up place while they do that. But that's the second place, and we might lift some of this content up a little bit to be a bit more slightly more high level for that audience, and then they can link through the more details. That's the second place, you apply the concept.
Alex Metcalf: and the third one is in the Aries main areas, Github Repo the the main reef far when you come into the repo, has got a space for an overview as well.
Alex Metcalf: So those are the 3 core points and we can provide. I want to provide roots up where appropriate to high level information. So if there's anything more business focus. We can link up from that in the right places, and equally more likely as well, we'll go down from this. So people come from this initial Wiki page. They might go down to more technical details, needing me to link into that as well.
Alex Metcalf: And that's where this description came from, based on draft he worked at before, based on feedback. From the survey results I just covered
Alex Metcalf: and some feedback from the Aries working group was somebody who gave a couple of comments last week.
Alex Metcalf: Come to this description. Here, we've got this over a general summary at the top. That's the link of where it's going to be, by the way. some key characteristics
Alex Metcalf: what it is.
Alex Metcalf: this is. These are the links that are provided
Alex Metcalf: by various people. They could still be sorted. I just look at first stab of saying, these are more general, these are more, develop a techy focus. But they could be better grouping. And we can. We can iterate them. But let's get something up, because something is better than nothing. So we got these links here, and then we'll continue the format as on the existing page, except to say that
Alex Metcalf: Helen has got this great template page that we're going to work off as a good structure for a Wiki page, and we'll probably just re purpose this con into the right places on that template page in the coming days right now.
Alex Metcalf: So we can have that. that Wiki page update as soon as possible. So Wiki page first
Alex Metcalf: hyper ledger site when they let us and see if we can find a way through that and then gain that repo for the
Alex Metcalf: theories Repo updated the remedy there.
Alex Metcalf: And now, if you do, a Google search on hyperbolic Aries, because our assumption is that people people people are typically funny. It's not by searching on. Oh, what's out there to do? Identity. And all this often do what that means.
Alex Metcalf: But we're working on the premise, which I think it's been back to by a few people supporting us, and this is that they hear about Aries. It comes up in a conference like here in a talk, and they want to learn more.
Alex Metcalf: So we can. The basis in this search for us by name. That's not to say some of our keywords might not hit that. But when you do that in social hybrid areas by name lose 3
Alex Metcalf: places. Come up first. And also we're talking with this concept.
Helen Garneau: yeah, I think that's the the an app summary. let me put the one more time, just for folks that just joined us. The link to this this meeting? the wiki and the zoom chat here one more time.
Helen Garneau: yeah, if you go to that, Google Dos link up that page to show you the screen share is about page
Alex Metcalf: 2 or 3 into that document to scroll down to this as Wiki content, and then you'll see
Alex Metcalf: what we call there.
Alex Metcalf: So yeah, the next step for us is, I think we have the messing good for now it's not as a final one. If some of it gets something up and that's iterated.
Alex Metcalf: and next step is is is.
Alex Metcalf: And this is any comments which we'd really welcome right now, next step is we're going to update that Wiki page
Alex Metcalf: and and and and move things forward and make it, you know, much more effective as a learning page for people.
Sean Mouton: So that that Wiki page that you just showed is that just a
Sean Mouton: current
Sean Mouton: version that you're looking to update.
Helen Garneau: Oh, sorry. Here's Here's the the just, the Wiki page that I put in the comments is the one for the meeting today. the example page that the Hyper Ledger staff actually mentioned is a great model for filling out a wiki page kind of
Helen Garneau: format for A project is this one, and it's for one of the labs called me Mini Fab and that is this link that I just put in the chat the second link there the short link and for Mini Fab and I can also share my screen.
Helen Garneau: but this would be an example of what we're looking at in terms of updating the Ares, the current aer's page. So we'd have maybe some content at the top a like a description of what it is some of the highlights of what it does. And it's some of those value points that that Alex just had in there and then how to like, get people going quickly, how to get them, using it, contributing to it, learning about it, participating in meetings, etc. So we have all of the get started.
Helen Garneau: Get involved items right at the top. If you have questions where to go, where the discord channel is, etc.
Helen Garneau: I think you know, a layout similar to this is kind of what we're looking at. If you go to the Aries
Helen Garneau: page as it stands. it has. It has a description that you know needs to be updated. it has some characteristics. and then it has a documentation repos, and then communication and chat. But I think that you know, and then, you know, calendars and stuff. But I think there's an opportunity here to kind of move things around, make it a little more user friendly, especially again, for you
Helen Garneau: potential customers or partners or vendors who are looking to adopt Aries looking to learn about it whatever Just make it easier for them to find what they're looking for quickly depending on their level of
Helen Garneau: knowledge or interest? Or what have you in in the project? So kind of move things around to make it a little more user friendly and update it with the the messaging that Alex just shared.
Sean Mouton: But the description that you, if you scroll up quickly to the top. So to me this description is more of what it is, then
Sean Mouton: what we proposing to update
Sean Mouton: so potentially, just keeping keeping this description is what you're what you're
Sean Mouton: for interaction as defined.
Sean Mouton: Because if addicts brings up these description.
Sean Mouton: It talks to more it being i digital identity ecosystem, but it's more the infrastructure that allows the to to be a interaction
Helen Garneau: I don't know any. Next was my view or or ease my view of what
Sean Mouton: hey reese
Helen Garneau: absolutely and does anybody else want to jump in and and chat. I think there's an opportunity here to have a nice yeah discussion on what other people think.
Helen Garneau: I mean, when we kind of set out with the task of updating the language. It was through the lens of trying to
Helen Garneau: supply a view of Aries that would be more
Helen Garneau: understandable, palatable.
Helen Garneau: Familiar to somebody who doesn't know anything about Aries, somebody who is a again, a potential customer or partner, or what have you? Somebody who maybe isn't technical. Who wants to? Who's a business decision maker, who's trying to decide whether or not to put money into a particular project or a particular vendor, etc. And so when I think the we had, we started asking the questions in the survey, etc., we were sort of framing it, as
Helen Garneau: you know, there's these 2 different audiences, the business audience and the developer audience. And how can we kind of start real high level and then provide
Helen Garneau: the links and the offshoots, and the the experience that each one of those you
Helen Garneau: types of audiences would require.
Sean Mouton: I don't know if you can actually get that first sentence in this technical
Helen Garneau: sure.
Sean Mouton: especially for a business person.
Sean Mouton: because, I mean, this is the language we utilize.
Sean Mouton: when communicating our business. But in all famous. We actually don't even go into the detail around Aries just due to the fact that we find it's more a technical tool. Keep them, for example, what Indies?
Sean Mouton: So we would.
Sean Mouton: we would have more business conversation around indie than what we would have around a
Helen Garneau: It goes to assets. I pure
Sean Mouton: technical tool set, same with Asia. for us, to implement the centralized
Sean Mouton: identity.
Helen Garneau: I don't know how the other
Sean Mouton: I was on the
Sean Mouton: go see it. And if I actually have a different type of conversation.
Helen Garneau: one of the things about that first sentence, in, or even the first, you know part of that sentence. Hyper, hyper ledger areas is an infrastructure for blockchain rooted peer-to-peer interactions.
Helen Garneau: We have found it in this kind of conversations. In the last, you know, couple of months. that a lot of organizations don't even really want to talk about blockchain.
It's a word that they immediately start thinking, crypto for a this a high level business decision maker it it can be. It can be a sticky word. So that was one of the items that I think had come up in one of the conversations. was just that that word. And then also
Helen Garneau: peer-to-peer interactions. Again, if we're trying to start high level. Maybe this is a maybe this, this phrasing and this terminology can then be used you somewhere else. But peer-to-peer interactions is also something that it doesn't really spark
Helen Garneau: the value-driven conversation. How can I implement? What? Why would I implement this? What good is it to me in my business? Why would I want to do this? Where would I? You know? Where would I implement it? And so I think part of what we were looking at is
Helen Garneau: providing descriptions that were more again value oriented and and communicating ares as a Well, I mean Shawn, you could, or Alex, you could bring. Bring it up again. What kind of the draft that you have there? But looking at it at from a perspective, from a lens of
Helen Garneau: if a business is putting time, resources, energy, money, developer time towards Aries. Why would they make that decision? And we're trying to answer that that question. Maybe that's not the question we should should, it should start with. I don't know, Alex, do you have any thoughts on this?
Alex Metcalf: Yeah, I can see the value of clarifying at the right time what it actually is like. I understand that. And when we've in a parallel piece of work, the hell I doing with Dcom, we've gone more that way. It has a lower level. 10, that full value. And we actually saying, this is what it is, quick.
Alex Metcalf: clearly out front.
Alex Metcalf: but a is the breadth of it, like, I said, every time we ask people a different idea of what they meant. So we have gone. Just this is value based. It's it's, it's, it's your complete
Alex Metcalf: toolkit for doing this. And let you do this and this and this. Okay? And then the thinking is.
Alex Metcalf: Well, how's it? What, exactly is it that we dive in? You? Look at those videos, you look at those intros. You look at the okay. I get it. Now it's it's facilitates this. So I think it is important.
Alex Metcalf: I could see potentially the value somewhere in the description in the right places, saying, You know explicitly what it is. but we have
Alex Metcalf: so far purposely picture that bit higher
Alex Metcalf: as to what it brings the table rather than technically what it is, especially because I think the words
Alex Metcalf: when it's so easy when we're so in it, to think this was a common place. But when we, when you in any way like approaching, and that that first line is critical, and we sign to use
Alex Metcalf: 4 plus to level words and get into longer technical things and
Alex Metcalf: blockchain root and infrastructure and peer to peer. They're not.
Alex Metcalf: We just have to find the middle ground of language. And so it's an ongoing discussion. And I really hear what you're saying, Shaun. I don't know that, because I want the exact answer.
Alex Metcalf: The only answer is, so far is that the feedback we've had is being there, being a lot of people of of it have have not pushed back on the track we've taken.
Alex Metcalf: So I'm wondering there's a way to have a cake, and you don't. If we can take the value basic proof you have and also have a statement. Someone say exactly what it is. Maybe there's like a
Alex Metcalf: you know. What? What point does that become critical?
Sean Mouton: What point does it? I would say, point of the implementation? But neither you are they the. So if if we look at the first saying, A is your complete toolkit for the same for you, when people see complete toolkit?
Sean Mouton: Yeah. Oh, I'll take a reason. Now I can start issuing my, the that you call
Sean Mouton: you need a components like that. You need components like a pipeline in the or depending on, you know which direction you want to take.
Sean Mouton: If it's like your complete toolkit for
Sean Mouton: integration.
Sean Mouton: Because the the sentence in itself said Con, just says, guys, if you take Aries, you don't need anything else.
Sean Mouton: That's the port that
Tim Bloomfield: this is Tim here. Sorry I'm driving it too much noise. I I'll go back on mute.
Tim Bloomfield: But
Tim Bloomfield: I'm struggling with this a bit because of the areas I mean, public areas is as many different
Tim Bloomfield: applications. We talked about the occupy as a complete tool. Kitty, you're talking A of J. Is a quick toolkit.
Tim Bloomfield: because I could certainly don't need in the to issue credentials, some in with with some of those tools depending on what I'm doing.
Tim Bloomfield: Others, you know I don't do so. I struggle with I I still always struggle with what is Aries in terms of the toolkit, a set of standards
Tim Bloomfield: working code influencing a set of standards.
Tim Bloomfield: but I I do think it areas is an important focus. I mean, it's post I really I to me, Indian stuff is almost.
Tim Bloomfield: There's a very few pieces left in India that are needed. but but there is, it is! It's it's it's pretty much a placing most of the pieces. The last one is a ledger, but India is a long, I mean sorry. Aries is a credential agnostic. Now, I mean noncredit, I should say so. You don't have to use indy note, for example. Anyway, I I do struggle with. I'm not sure what it is.
Helen Garneau: and maybe there's room for modification. Instead of your complete toolkit. We we do mention an an open source code repository or the a, a, a mature code base for building to centralize, I did what dynamic solutions or something like that,
Tim Bloomfield: because that one thing we I, I, I always had in the back of my mind is when aries was graduated from
Helen Garneau: or like whatever, and into graduated status. I don't know. Whatever the top level, most mature status that hyper ledger. it's because it has a thriving community. It has tons of con contributors from a bunch of different organizations. There's constantly, you know, commits and interesting things happening. And you know, it's it's I want. I want to make sure that anybody who you know comes our way and is looking at Aries
understands that it's not just.
Helen Garneau: you know, a bit of a bit of code that has been open, sourced, and you can pick it up and might be able to do something with it. I I want to make sure that it is very clear about the breadth and and
Helen Garneau: depth of of the of the code, and and that the description is in line with again what somebody, what their pain point is right like, who are we serving with this top level description? And you know, at the end of the day. It's it's gonna be somebody who's putting money towards creating a a product with this. So why would they create a product with with this? And you know. Let me learn more. Right?
Helen Garneau: So I think, starting out with, Oh, it's a code base that you know. If it's mature code base, it does. But whatever we decide, you know the word wording there and then we go into
Helen Garneau: making peer-to-peer connections, and you know, to send you something. You know we could build. I think we can build that language into a place in a workflow
Helen Garneau: in a kind of a you know, customer experience flow for using that. Using that language so we could, we can definitely build it in there. I don't think we have to abandon it. you know, just blankly.
Sean Mouton: Hmm, no, it's it. It. It was more around just getting
Sean Mouton: that appropriate view of what it is to us as a community. I mean your ongoing communication channels for reaching interaction to me, is a good replacement for
Helen Garneau: in, if you
Sean Mouton: you know that business type terms
Sean Mouton: the the meet the requirements and regulations for government label identities.
Sean Mouton: might be a bit of a stretch.
Tim Bloomfield: Well, there's a couple of governments that are very keen on using it for that.
Sean Mouton: let's call it a governance framework around it to need those regulations. It in itself
Sean Mouton: doesn't do it.
Tim Bloomfield: No, no, it's a to it. It's a technology stack, it's not. It's not the pieces around absolutely a great.
Tim Bloomfield: But I still think it's the tool. It's it's a set of libraries and open source code base is mature, open source code that allow you to implement these these standards. I think that's that's a huge value proposition. I think it's earlier. It's it's very real. You got a code.
Helen Garneau: Awesome. I have been have not taking very good notes by. Let me get back into the page, and then we'll. I'll add that those those comments in here, because it really that's what this meeting is for, right is to make sure that we aren't you know, leaving anything on the table when we go to make to then present kind of what our
Helen Garneau: to present this to the general kind of working Aries working group. but I want to make sure. You know, we want to make sure that there is
Helen Garneau: enough ideas. And
Helen Garneau: yeah, enough ideas being circulated and and the in consideration, so that we are able to provide a a good
Helen Garneau: good, you know, next steps
Helen Garneau: so just adding some notes into the Aries marketing.
Helen Garneau: working group meeting. Page.
Okay?
Helen Garneau: So I think that was, that was the majority of what we wanted to talk a little, you know. Talk about today. And and Alex, what do you think about
Helen Garneau: adding, or when you, I think the idea is, the next steps is to present that deck to the working group or to the like general Aries working group. Is that right? Is that what that would be? The next steps
Alex Metcalf: we've had. We did that summary of the deck last week. I think the next step was really about here is that
Alex Metcalf: here's a Wiki page ready to go. I I would imagine, as well as I think.
Alex Metcalf: if we can reflect the language of the front. So it's very clear what this is. Let me get that right. I think that feedback is really helpful. So thank you. I'm sure on, Tim on that. If we get, if we tighten that up. We will clear on that. I think. The next step is.
Alex Metcalf: I suggest, is, let's get something improved. Let's get the Wiki page
Alex Metcalf: improved and ready to go.
Helen Garneau: and maybe what we do is We implement the the language from the documents that you shared into a draft, and then I send it out.
Helen Garneau: and then we can. you know.
Helen Garneau: add or subtract, or to, you know, change things as needed. but you know I I do. I just I really think that starting out high level, and then kind of letting it, you know, choose your own journey. If you're looking at more learning about understanding what areas is or going to, you know. Look under the hood and start seeing
Helen Garneau: the code and the, you know, different, you know, underlying descriptions for developers. I think that there's there's room for both and and you know, being able to accommodate that in what in in the wiki, and you know, with offshoots, I think, is the best
Helen Garneau: course of action. So whether or not we keep that sort of the same Aries language higher up or further down, it will be there. so I think it's just a matter of who that most appeals to. But we could definitely move things around as we go
Alex Metcalf: for sure.
Helen Garneau: Cool And you put all those links to those 2 documents in the chat. Is that right, Alex?
Alex Metcalf: They put
Alex Metcalf: the we have been there. No, I didn't put the
Alex Metcalf: the the the Google top link to that
Helen Garneau: update description. 1 s here.
Helen Garneau: Yeah, maybe I'll just. I'll drop in.
Helen Garneau: That's
Helen Garneau: the yeah. We just want to drop in. The survey results deck that you showed. And then I think I rate. And I made it deleted the the link that I we had in there and then the area, the one that you had just
Helen Garneau: presented.
Sean Mouton: I just the question, are we going to be looking at the training material as well, because I see these,
Sean Mouton: of course, and invert the commerce that covers, I believe, to Aries, Indies, and Montreal.
Helen Garneau: It's after the Linux Foundation training.
Helen Garneau: that is a good question. the Aries community did not make that training material. Specifically, I think, like Steven Current wrote it. Maybe.
Helen Garneau: of hyper ledger. Yeah, something like that. So we could, we could out. Yeah, we could approach even about it, you know, if he's working on any updates, or if we could, you know, review any of that material.
Alex Metcalf: I think he's been updating it over the years. As as things are going. It keeps refreshing it from what I remember hearing anecdotely so
Helen Garneau: awesome. so yeah, maybe I'll I'll try to grab that
Helen Garneau: Talk to Stephen about how how to best present that maybe I grab him for our next meeting. He can join us, and we he could talk, walk through the the training and certification materials. Because you're right. That's that's definitely a a first step, you know, in a lot of people's journeys. For sure.
Alex Metcalf: I feel like I went through it. It was like free for a minute, and I went through it. But it was years ago. Shawn, did. Have you ever gone through it in any iteration, or Alex, have you gone through it
Helen Garneau: back in the day? I think it's $180, or something to that effect
Helen Garneau: for the certification or for the the just, the training.
Helen Garneau: Okay? Yeah. So the the
Helen Garneau: just the workshop, like the work, the training is free. So you can access and see the questions and everything you know the content there. But what you're saying is, you'd like to see the certification questions. Is that what you're asking for?
Sean Mouton: No. So it yeah. The E, as we update the material. Yeah, and give that to business
Sean Mouton: view of what as is Steven kind of to me needs to take that wording and included in the training course because the training course to specifically to
Sean Mouton: an introduction for business
Helen Garneau: yeah, no, that would be that would be counter kinda productive to our effort, so yeah, we'll, we'll definitely, i'll, I'll reach out or Alex, if you talk to Stephen if you want to invite him to our next next month's meeting, and we can walk through the training and certain materials that would be, I think, a good idea.
Helen Garneau: and it might also be
Helen Garneau: oh, sorry, and it might also be helpful to bring, you know Sam in as well, and you know, with the 2 working group chairs and us. you know, really get into the nitty gritty. So if we draft, you know, take take
Helen Garneau: the information that we have draft a new Wiki page, and then kind of wireframe out what the web, what the Hyper Ledger Foundation website Page would contain. and then present it to the working group, and then we could fine tune it with the working group chairs on our next call. I think that would be a good kind of
Helen Garneau: next steps.
Helen Garneau: So I'll put that under
Helen Garneau: future topics.
Helen Garneau: Oh, yeah, we did want to talk, and that was one of the questions we had had is about competitors like what? What? I maybe somebody on the call could answer the question, Shawn, or Tim or Robert. But who? What are the other competitors to Aries if someone's looking at building decentralized identity, what else are they looking at?
Tim Bloomfield: That is your dominance, competitor? I I look at Iso. Mdl.
Tim Bloomfield: yeah, problem is that that all the same things? But let's just say I. So I'd be an open Id for Vc. Is where a lot of people are going.
Tim Bloomfield: now. They did the different things, and eventually I so generic standards. the id standards are coming out. Those are your primary competitors. I mean, open idea for Vc can actually work with in area. So it gets complicated. And it's been diagrams and then diagrams and stuff. But I would definitely say, the I saw stuff. especially government, which is very, very focused on Mdl, right now.
Helen Garneau: Okay.
Helen Garneau: is there a way to
Helen Garneau: make it clear that open Id can work with Aries? Is there some some miscommunication or misunderstanding about any of those kind of competitors when it
Tim Bloomfield: in that ven diagram. I I it's not that it. Yeah, I don't know this. Some of those have to sort of put it on chime in. So there's definitely pieces of areas that are are overlapping with open that even Vc issue. It's right. That's exactly what an issue is. And and and and and presenting proof
Tim Bloomfield: both of those things are overlapping. But then you can, you know, a non-credit could be presented by a open id, you can see, be issued by it anyway, or a proof can be presented. So
Tim Bloomfield: it it yeah, it's really hard to nail it down. I mean, there's there's there's a bit of a I don't know it better way of saying that an event diagram. But i'm not sure how you can clarify that
Tim Bloomfield: yeah, sorry, I have to think about it.
Helen Garneau: No, I appreciate that. Yeah. I mean with the I think it'd come up Alex and I were, just, you know, thinking about what other mess? yeah. Messages out there. messages are out there from other organizations, other private entities, other open source entities, other standards, bodies, etc. And so yeah, that's, I think a great, a great place to start.
Helen Garneau: yeah. As Alex mentioned, we're working on some sort of, you know. Did come language as well and open Id, for Vc. Is coming up there as well. And so it sounds like, there, there's yeah, an opportunity to clarify, to sort of clarify and and less muddy the waters. That would be a good place to do it. Actually, I think that's the best place to do it, because there's no reason why I did come and open the Vc. Cannot, cannot.
Tim Bloomfield: we'll be side by side, but that's where there is some misunderstanding. You will think that you, you know, if you' that, you can't be using Gycom. Well, you you certainly could.
Tim Bloomfield: It's just and so yeah, that that makes a lot of sense to me.
Helen Garneau: Okay.
Helen Garneau: adding some notes into the page. another item that we had on our agenda was use cases, specifically going through the repos of and describing each
Helen Garneau: a little more
Helen Garneau: familiar, a little more palatable for somebody who doesn't know what a non-creds or doesn't know what Jason out, like all the all the different repos that are in Ares. How can we present those that you know, these ones kind of go together? And this is what they do. If you're looking to do this, you you want to look at these ones. If you, if you're looking to do this other thing, you want to look at these ones. So I think that was another question for Steven and Sam and and anybody on this call could you know, help help with, that is
Helen Garneau: What different
Helen Garneau: parts of Aries are most compatible with one another, and why would someone want to use one and not the other? And in making their their decisions on where to build.
Tim Bloomfield: One thing you might want to look at there is. It's starting to come up. seeing it in over while the foundation others is the concept of profiles.
Tim Bloomfield: really precise. It's it's not quite what you're asking, because, you know, you may have
Tim Bloomfield: from peaked, you know they they I mean, once you've more use mobile ones more use for desktop. But really they actually allow the same functionality. But
Tim Bloomfield: it does. I think profiles are an area where you could. You works in a list for this this credential scheme.
Tim Bloomfield: this issue. It's this presentation to get our presentation for protocol, whatever it may be, very precisely listed so. But there's not many profiles right now.
Tim Bloomfield: and that would at least help identify the and I, anyway, Overall Foundation is also working and trying to get profiles together. It's a swift try and identify those kinds of patterns.
Helen Garneau: I don't know if it's going to be done with Aries to try it.
Tim Bloomfield: Link them together. I'm not sure.
Helen Garneau: Yeah, absolutely. I mean that the getting started is always. I mean, it is always a a a factor that comes up with Aries even not I mean, last week this week. I think I don't. I can't remember my weeks now.
Helen Garneau: In the discord channel. There was somebody saying, I tried this, and I didn't know, and I don't know where to start. I tried to follow the guide on this that I found on the wet, like no one can. It's very. There's a high barrier of entry for using and understanding areas. And all of this work that we're doing is trying to lower that area of entry and get more people using it. More people understanding it, more people.
Helen Garneau: a roadmap on where they want to go, based on what their use cases in their head that they've identified that
Helen Garneau: decentralized identity, verifiable credentials. Whatever is, is would benefit them. So the more we can lower that barrier. I think that's that's the goal here.
Tim Bloomfield: and that's where I mean the open Id for BC. Is so, being so successful. People think they know it because they already know all I, DC and all, even though it's I just protocol. But they understand it intuitively. It's very simple.
Tim Bloomfield: It doesn't do as much, you know. You pick your poison. But yeah, that that's exactly where that that protocols standard, which is still, you know, has been finalized. So so you know, it's already EU's standard issuance.
Tim Bloomfield: and that was done because of people could just understand it. And so, yeah, that's pretty important.
Helen Garneau: Yeah, that's great.
Helen Garneau: yeah, I think there, there is some there was talk about open Id and Aries having some sort of
Tim Bloomfield: agreement or co- collaboration in something or other. I'm not quite sure where what had come up. What was that? That was the wall, that open wallet which is different. Oh, sorry. Sorry. I'm mistaking my opens. Yeah, which is also very open for BC centric right now. But we'll also support, you know, which should also support down here is to come
Tim Bloomfield: either the Swiss army knife. But yeah. yeah.
Sean Mouton: So so open wallet is more related to.
Sean Mouton: Let's call it authentication protocol when you log on to, and
Sean Mouton: we we are. And that's where you can use in open wallet
Sean Mouton: credentials, people, credentials that are issued. But, for example, open wallet wouldn't use
Sean Mouton: proof of employment.
Sean Mouton: It has the value in its current.
Sean Mouton: Let's call it deployment, because using your proof of employment to log on is, you know, you draw the What is your identity to log on?
Sean Mouton: Are we talking about the same? All the foundation hasn't. Is not that precisely prescribed?
Tim Bloomfield: I don't talk about open Id here. I'm talking about open Id for Vc. Which does cover the same territories. This is different from O, I, DC, and that's you know, we're getting it to, probably, which is about authentication. But open Id for Vc.
Sean Mouton: it's okay. Okay. I I'm I'm I'll open Id. They.
Sean Mouton: But if you set up an Id for Vc, that's something different. It's not
Sean Mouton: Alex. All who's starting, Helen.
Tim Bloomfield: Yeah. The great confusion with the open Id, the number 4. And then Vc, and thanks for catching that
Helen Garneau: apologies I put, yeah, I put in other places. Not I wasn't being prescriptive on it. But yeah, open id for Vc.
Helen Garneau: okay. Well, I mean, in the last few minutes here, I think we had a great this, I think this has been a great discussion on
Helen Garneau: what more I think we were. We don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water, but we, you know, there is a lot that we could keep from Aries, I think, from the current areas, description and and messaging. But I think it's putting it in the right places for the right audiences. So we'll we will definitely be moving some things around, adding, like another higher level,
Helen Garneau: kind of description at the at this onset. but definitely want to get in into these nuances. So it it answers people. It's almost like a FAQ, not that we put an FAQ. But, like you know it, it's one of these common, the the misconceptions misunderstandings of technology. again, high high barriers of entry, people not understanding where to go and what to do, that we're trying to eliminate so that I think might be in the next iteration or next
Helen Garneau: series of, you know, work steps for us moving forward. Once we kind of get the first first elements implemented.
Helen Garneau: So what we're gonna do, I don't think there's other business. But I just took this template from someone else. So we're gonna do. We're going to invite Steven and Sam to the next call to talk about the training, the the training and certification.
Helen Garneau: we're going to review
Helen Garneau: and have them review kind of the new pages. that we will be drafted between now and then. for them to look at. And why, hopefully, a wire get a wireframe put together to at least give the Hyper Ledger foundation, so that when they implement their new website they can quickly kind of update them. The the language there. yeah. And in the meantime just focus on
Helen Garneau: Oh, sorry for the action items.
Helen Garneau: We're gonna just focus on updating the the wiki for now. and go from there.
Helen Garneau: Yeah, very helpful feedback. Thank you.
Helen Garneau: cool. Is there any other kind of last minute? Call outs, comments. Anything that anybody wants to share.
Alex Metcalf: Hmm!
Alex Metcalf: I gave like no point one. Nathan's there.
Helen Garneau: but yeah, so yeah, feel free to reach out. Feel free to, you know. Add notes, or or what have you on this page? Happy to keep the conversation going on discord. There is a as marketing channel, I believe, now on discord. So we can keep, you know. Keep the conversation going there. If you see examples or resources or links that you want to share, that you think should be included, or are good examples of something, please, you know. Drop them in, keep the, you know. Keep the conversation going after this meeting.
Alex Metcalf: This is not a point in time. This is the first that many a hey increments. You may get it all right first time, but we can keep improving it.
Alex Metcalf: I think if we think of it that way, it's it's a lot more freedom, because everything's been, I think, a big step forward where we are right now in terms of what we're trying to show of all the great ones have in the areas last year. So let's let's do that to keep it going, and all the feedback as well.
Helen Garneau: Awesome. Thank you all for your time today. Thanks for showing up, and we'll see you on the interwebs. Thank you all.