WEBVTT 1 00:02:08.979 --> 00:02:10.979 Timo Glastra: Good afternoon, everyone. 2 00:02:25.340 --> 00:02:31.030 Timo Glastra: I'm wondering whether we are in the correct meeting, actually, because I think they recently 3 00:02:31.100 --> 00:02:32.290 Timo Glastra: change the 4 00:02:33.490 --> 00:02:35.570 Timo Glastra: the 5 00:02:35.710 --> 00:02:41.749 Timo Glastra: meeting link again. But it seems you're all here. I didn't know if 6 00:02:42.110 --> 00:02:49.239 Timo Glastra: I'm going quickly. Check the auto link and see if there's more people there like I'll supposed to here without come back 7 00:02:49.510 --> 00:02:50.260 Timo Glastra: a sec. 8 00:03:16.820 --> 00:03:19.839 Timo Glastra: No one in your link, so I think we can just use this one. 9 00:03:19.860 --> 00:03:28.420 Timo Glastra: all right. I was just checking is the hyper ledger Wiki down for 10 00:03:29.200 --> 00:03:30.430 Timo Glastra: for you as well. 11 00:03:33.730 --> 00:03:34.789 So let me check. 12 00:03:50.890 --> 00:03:54.430 Berend Sliedrecht: Yeah. It's it seems to him that loud. So I think so. 13 00:03:56.490 --> 00:03:57.630 Timo Glastra: Okay. 14 00:03:59.950 --> 00:04:00.650 Timo Glastra: well. 15 00:04:00.920 --> 00:04:03.779 Timo Glastra: then, we're gonna do it with. 16 00:04:04.610 --> 00:04:06.229 Timo Glastra: He can be for today. 17 00:04:21.910 --> 00:04:24.839 Timo Glastra: I'll try to convert it to 18 00:04:26.550 --> 00:04:32.219 Timo Glastra: to the to the Wiki. if it's back up again. 19 00:04:49.980 --> 00:04:54.810 Timo Glastra: Cool, I think we can get started small crowd today. 20 00:04:55.070 --> 00:05:08.849 Timo Glastra: monitoring. Why, that is Let's yeah. That's good start. It's open to the, I assume. Jest group working group. Call 21 00:05:09.590 --> 00:05:10.900 off 22 00:05:11.700 --> 00:05:20.330 Timo Glastra: June 20, ninth. to remember you to buy it by the high pledge code of conduct, and then 23 00:05:20.660 --> 00:05:26.420 Timo Glastra: into this policy. cool. 24 00:05:26.610 --> 00:05:36.690 Timo Glastra: Well, I recognize you on the call, so I think we can spare the the introductions. Feel free to add yourself to the tennis list if you wish. So 25 00:05:37.630 --> 00:05:45.310 Timo Glastra: any status updates people want to make. I think Clay showed the 26 00:05:45.420 --> 00:05:50.770 Timo Glastra: shared components and update to a J 4, 0 for us. Finally being merged right? 27 00:05:51.730 --> 00:05:56.940 Clecio Varjao: yep. Finally merged and in in by phone. And we are. 28 00:05:57.580 --> 00:06:05.770 Clecio Varjao: yeah, no, it's working great. A few hiccups cut bugs, but nothing, no, surely stop so awesome. Work 29 00:06:06.940 --> 00:06:17.620 Timo Glastra: cool. That's great to work to our to here. It's been a while so happy. That's finally for now, and it's working mostly 30 00:06:18.320 --> 00:06:19.420 Timo Glastra: as it should 31 00:06:19.470 --> 00:06:22.210 Timo Glastra: cool that we'll still so bye for the call this week. 32 00:06:23.180 --> 00:06:25.629 Clecio Varjao: no, don't by this work 33 00:06:28.130 --> 00:06:29.939 Timo Glastra: cool. Is that goodbye. 34 00:06:31.400 --> 00:06:34.390 Timo Glastra: Any relevant updates for me, Michael. 35 00:06:36.160 --> 00:06:39.939 Clecio Varjao: I did not attend. I kept my meeting. 36 00:06:40.820 --> 00:06:42.419 Timo Glastra: Okay, yeah. Me need it. 37 00:06:44.100 --> 00:06:45.840 Timo Glastra: okay. 38 00:06:45.870 --> 00:06:50.910 Timo Glastra: Then for the agenda for today. So the wiki was 39 00:06:51.520 --> 00:07:07.120 Timo Glastra: not online, so I couldn't look at like the we had a long list of topics from last week that we in the end didn't get to, but I know one was Folks don't like the 0 for 0 release. Now it has been, now that it has been released. 40 00:07:07.730 --> 00:07:14.790 Timo Glastra: place you. You want to talk about the the future of Aj, right? 41 00:07:15.140 --> 00:07:18.640 Clecio Varjao: yeah, I wanna. 42 00:07:19.400 --> 00:07:28.210 Clecio Varjao: I've had a few people reach out to me about ares components and the state where all of them are. And 43 00:07:29.010 --> 00:07:34.439 Clecio Varjao: I want to ask you to community about it. He has anybody taught about it? How? 44 00:07:34.860 --> 00:07:44.180 Clecio Varjao: How those other command and components fit in and what is the vision for Afj. anyway. 45 00:07:44.610 --> 00:07:46.900 Timo Glastra: Cool. Yeah. I think we can 46 00:07:48.070 --> 00:07:50.669 Timo Glastra: go for that today. 47 00:07:51.050 --> 00:07:52.870 Timo Glastra: any other topics 48 00:07:52.890 --> 00:07:55.770 Timo Glastra: we want to. 49 00:07:56.030 --> 00:07:59.849 Timo Glastra: discuss with the people want to add to the to the agenda. 50 00:08:10.770 --> 00:08:12.010 Timo Glastra: Cool? Okay. 51 00:08:12.500 --> 00:08:13.730 Timo Glastra: yeah. Go ahead. 52 00:08:13.830 --> 00:08:16.490 Charles Lanahan: Oh, sorry. Not an agenda. I am per se. But 53 00:08:17.440 --> 00:08:22.450 Charles Lanahan: I open an issue to update the documentation for the storage config parameters. 54 00:08:22.920 --> 00:08:25.729 Charles Lanahan: But I didn't quite know where to look for 55 00:08:25.850 --> 00:08:29.570 Charles Lanahan: to do that completely. So if anyone wants to 56 00:08:29.630 --> 00:08:33.680 Charles Lanahan: point me to where that lives, I'd be glad to do that. 57 00:08:34.480 --> 00:08:37.900 Timo Glastra: And so 58 00:08:38.010 --> 00:08:39.520 Charles Lanahan: in in the docs. 59 00:08:40.809 --> 00:08:41.480 Timo Glastra: Huh? 60 00:08:47.280 --> 00:08:48.660 Charles Lanahan: sorry issues. 61 00:08:54.170 --> 00:08:58.620 Charles Lanahan: Yeah. So I I figured out how to the memory database actually ended up working. 62 00:08:59.370 --> 00:09:04.119 Charles Lanahan: what this issue is to update that because you click on that link, it just has the. 63 00:09:04.970 --> 00:09:12.500 Charles Lanahan: you know, like a, it takes a key and a random random to the keys and values. So I, this is the updated documentation for that. 64 00:09:18.800 --> 00:09:24.949 Timo Glastra: Yeah, okay, so you're mostly about if interested in using the 65 00:09:24.970 --> 00:09:28.480 Timo Glastra: in memory. Option? Right? 66 00:09:28.600 --> 00:09:33.169 Charles Lanahan: Well, yeah, no. So I figure that out, I was just if you click on that link on the top 67 00:09:34.530 --> 00:09:44.800 Charles Lanahan: I was going. I this is an issue. I open. I I I I can update this section right here. if someone can point you where that lives, there's a postgres 68 00:09:44.850 --> 00:09:54.850 Charles Lanahan: section right for storage that has a bunch of key values down there. And then there's some sqlite ones that aren't really documented anywhere. 69 00:09:57.210 --> 00:10:02.710 Charles Lanahan: So so the issue is an offer to update the storage config with the various backends. 70 00:10:02.850 --> 00:10:10.369 Charles Lanahan: so that it's not kind of a looking for various things all over the documentation. 71 00:10:11.430 --> 00:10:15.680 Timo Glastra: Yeah. Makes sense. I think. it's 72 00:10:16.390 --> 00:10:27.840 Timo Glastra: I don't know. May. Maybe Ariel knows this. But like, it's the storage object, it's this, is it different between Oscar and in the sk, yeah, right? 73 00:10:29.060 --> 00:10:30.599 Ariel Gentile: They are similar. 74 00:10:30.800 --> 00:10:36.110 Ariel Gentile: But yeah, that there are some different configurations. Both have the type of 75 00:10:36.520 --> 00:10:42.370 Ariel Gentile: the type field where you said, if it's a skylight, or if it's a 76 00:10:42.430 --> 00:10:43.510 Ariel Gentile: that's great. 77 00:10:44.270 --> 00:10:54.880 Ariel Gentile: And also, there are some other parameters like, for instance, with the time out and some some other stuff usually used on the 78 00:10:55.160 --> 00:10:56.709 Ariel Gentile: about the, it's a bit different. 79 00:10:57.050 --> 00:11:02.909 Charles Lanahan: Right? Yeah. So yeah, if if I I can do the documentation update, if you guys will just point me to where 80 00:11:04.040 --> 00:11:07.399 Charles Lanahan: the config options live. for reference. Right? 81 00:11:09.580 --> 00:11:23.969 Timo Glastra: Yeah. Okay. yeah. And then we can probably add a section on both. how to do it within the SDK, and with uscar And then once we update the wallet Api, a bit more, we can 82 00:11:24.130 --> 00:11:27.699 Timo Glastra: separated a bit more between the 2. 83 00:11:27.820 --> 00:11:34.250 Timo Glastra: yeah. aria. Could you add some pointers on like for the different options. Or. 84 00:11:35.220 --> 00:11:37.859 Ariel Gentile: okay, yeah, yeah, I will do that. I will add it to the 85 00:11:38.340 --> 00:11:39.709 Ariel Gentile: to the issue. So 86 00:11:40.660 --> 00:11:42.969 Charles Lanahan: how it works 87 00:11:44.730 --> 00:11:50.360 Charles Lanahan: cool. Because, yeah, I'm glad to adopt. I just wanted to make sure I was doing it right? 88 00:11:51.230 --> 00:11:53.530 Timo Glastra: Yeah. cool. 89 00:11:54.760 --> 00:12:00.110 Timo Glastra: awesome. Okay. 90 00:12:00.990 --> 00:12:13.379 Clecio Varjao: So may be as well to know there is an issue that did we encounter doing the bifold while it's about the auto linking But 91 00:12:14.650 --> 00:12:16.810 Clecio Varjao: link secret creation. 92 00:12:19.040 --> 00:12:20.260 Timo Glastra: Yeah. 93 00:12:21.750 --> 00:12:22.710 Timo Glastra: this one. 94 00:12:26.550 --> 00:12:28.160 Timo Glastra: Right? Yeah. 95 00:12:32.040 --> 00:12:42.359 Timo Glastra: yeah. So issue is link sequence are created by default anymore. We expected that out to wallet. So now you have to do the mainly 96 00:12:42.460 --> 00:12:50.379 Timo Glastra: and a Pr was created by Jason to automatically create it. 97 00:12:50.980 --> 00:12:54.979 Timo Glastra: and we had some feed backgrounds on it. I think 98 00:12:55.980 --> 00:12:57.560 Timo Glastra: there were 2. 99 00:12:58.640 --> 00:13:03.560 Timo Glastra: Yeah, 2 2 things to consider here, I think, is 100 00:13:04.220 --> 00:13:10.949 Timo Glastra: one. Where do we create the link secret? If you want to create it by default? 101 00:13:11.710 --> 00:13:15.200 Timo Glastra: taking into account. No, to Tennessee. 102 00:13:15.220 --> 00:13:26.310 Timo Glastra: maybe that you are not going to use A of J as a holder. So then it wouldn't really be needed to create a link secret, is it? Well. 103 00:13:26.680 --> 00:13:31.999 Timo Glastra: does it matter if you have a link secret that you're not going to use? I don't know 104 00:13:32.260 --> 00:13:49.090 Timo Glastra: And we also need to make sure. or maybe that's a consideration. like race conditions. If we do it in a request, credential call, and you request to credentials at the same time. Then, they could both create a a, a link secret, for example. 105 00:13:51.210 --> 00:13:53.889 Timo Glastra: yeah, any thoughts on this? 106 00:13:57.760 --> 00:14:02.390 Clecio Varjao: Yeah. So so from our perspective is was really about kind of the the 107 00:14:02.530 --> 00:14:21.350 Clecio Varjao: the Usability for the Dev perspective. That is like we expected that that when we initialize the agent things would be ready. I think, where exactly is going to be initialized. I don't think it's that important more of the expectation that when the agent is initialized. It's fully initialized and ready to go. 108 00:14:24.570 --> 00:14:25.390 Timo Glastra: Okay. 109 00:14:25.760 --> 00:14:30.729 Timo Glastra: Mario, you left some comments like, do you think 110 00:14:31.480 --> 00:14:37.630 Timo Glastra: what? What? What needs to be changed before we can merge this or 111 00:14:38.590 --> 00:14:41.410 Ariel Gentile: no. Actually I I was. I was saying that that 112 00:14:41.850 --> 00:14:48.630 Ariel Gentile: that you you are right about about this issue on the on the multi-tenancy. 113 00:14:49.590 --> 00:14:57.559 Ariel Gentile: But if we are going to to add this logic to the credential 114 00:14:57.610 --> 00:15:09.640 Ariel Gentile: request or the first credential request, for instance, it will not be so, or or I couldn't find a a, a very straightforward way to to add it to the to the code in a killing way. 115 00:15:09.720 --> 00:15:20.159 Ariel Gentile: One of the issues is what what you have mentioned recently today about the the rest conditions that it's it's certainly possible. But also to 116 00:15:20.530 --> 00:15:21.359 Ariel Gentile: you know. 117 00:15:22.650 --> 00:15:30.640 Ariel Gentile: we, we will need to be calling to the an ongraduate Api from the all the service, or from the 118 00:15:31.100 --> 00:15:36.640 Ariel Gentile: from the credential, from a service which is a little bit. We are from my perspective. 119 00:15:37.480 --> 00:15:40.930 Ariel Gentile: So probably probably 120 00:15:40.990 --> 00:15:45.239 Ariel Gentile: we can. We can keep it as a As on implemented, because 121 00:15:45.480 --> 00:15:49.849 Ariel Gentile: it will be any way an optional parameter. Maybe we can do it. 122 00:15:50.370 --> 00:15:54.909 Ariel Gentile: Maybe we we can do it force by default if you want. 123 00:15:57.300 --> 00:15:59.100 Ariel Gentile: instead of being through. 124 00:15:59.540 --> 00:16:03.350 Timo Glastra: And so where would we create it? In that case. 125 00:16:04.450 --> 00:16:10.529 Ariel Gentile: No, no, I mean in the we. We can keep it as a straight and implemented. Now in the initialization. 126 00:16:10.730 --> 00:16:12.020 Ariel Gentile: it will solve this. 127 00:16:13.380 --> 00:16:15.160 Ariel Gentile: I mean. It's it's simpler. 128 00:16:17.220 --> 00:16:23.530 Timo Glastra: But in initialization this this method is called only once. Right? 129 00:16:24.780 --> 00:16:25.820 Ariel Gentile: Yes. 130 00:16:27.320 --> 00:16:29.860 Timo Glastra: so it won't work for me to Tennessee. 131 00:16:30.020 --> 00:16:31.329 Ariel Gentile: It will not work 132 00:16:31.570 --> 00:16:32.650 what it is 133 00:16:34.850 --> 00:16:38.779 Ariel Gentile: I can. I cannot find a a solution to. 134 00:16:39.400 --> 00:16:43.789 Ariel Gentile: to, to be confront, to, to to everybody. But 135 00:16:44.820 --> 00:16:51.079 Ariel Gentile: if we are going to do it in the, in the credential request. We have this problem you mentioned 136 00:16:51.630 --> 00:16:54.250 Ariel Gentile: about the right condition. That is possible. 137 00:16:55.090 --> 00:16:57.090 Ariel Gentile: Not likely, but possible. 138 00:16:58.780 --> 00:17:03.310 Timo Glastra: Yeah, I think it's very unlikely. So maybe we can go ahead 139 00:17:04.300 --> 00:17:07.440 Timo Glastra: with that approach. 140 00:17:07.650 --> 00:17:15.460 Berend Sliedrecht: I I don't think it would be a race commission right? It would be more just that you have to link secrets while you probably 1 1. 141 00:17:15.890 --> 00:17:20.310 Ariel Gentile: Well, yes, but that that's a problem. 142 00:17:20.990 --> 00:17:23.479 Yeah, no, that's that's very true. That's true. 143 00:17:23.619 --> 00:17:37.670 Clecio Varjao: So is is that an it? A little bit of architecture problem? There is a the system and any initialization. But there is no tenant initialization process for each component. 144 00:17:39.600 --> 00:17:40.990 Clecio Varjao: Is that what I'm hearing? 145 00:17:41.600 --> 00:17:44.039 Timo Glastra: Yeah, kinda 146 00:17:45.310 --> 00:18:05.899 Timo Glastra: yeah, sort of, we have utilization of modules. But modules are more meant to be global. So I think, like this initialization is more if you need to set something up for your module in general that is not related to a specific tenant. So, for example, It is used by 147 00:18:05.900 --> 00:18:18.250 Timo Glastra: the in the Vdr module to connect to the ledger on Agent Startup, but, like the the ledger, pools, are shared by all tenants. So that is like, not a tenant specific action. 148 00:18:18.350 --> 00:18:22.250 Timo Glastra: we do have an agent organization. 149 00:18:22.660 --> 00:18:24.950 Timo Glastra: but the 150 00:18:25.140 --> 00:18:30.539 Timo Glastra: this is like a custom package to allocate package. And so we don't have 151 00:18:30.550 --> 00:18:31.570 Timo Glastra: custom 152 00:18:33.120 --> 00:18:41.539 Timo Glastra: module in a situation for each tenant. so that is a a limitation. maybe. 153 00:18:44.690 --> 00:18:45.400 Timo Glastra: Yeah. 154 00:18:47.300 --> 00:18:47.980 Clecio Varjao: Okay. 155 00:18:49.660 --> 00:18:56.439 Clecio Varjao: yeah. So so we have implemented a workaround in by phone. I guess it's it's just up for discussion. I think you don't have to 156 00:18:56.690 --> 00:19:01.580 Clecio Varjao: accepted. So you we can live. Let it simmer for a little bit and see where it goes. 157 00:19:01.690 --> 00:19:09.360 Clecio Varjao: but others might have issues. So if there is a way to at least raise an air her somewhere. How identify and 158 00:19:09.810 --> 00:19:13.109 Clecio Varjao: how they use it? Like, Hey, this thing is to happen. 159 00:19:15.010 --> 00:19:20.300 Timo Glastra: Yeah, I think. it's weird that there 160 00:19:21.260 --> 00:19:31.500 Timo Glastra: wasn't a an error throne, because it should throw an error if we look at the at the the code base. 161 00:19:31.840 --> 00:19:34.440 And we look at the 162 00:19:34.630 --> 00:19:36.120 Timo Glastra: and I'm correct 163 00:19:36.520 --> 00:19:39.719 Timo Glastra: ours, holder surface 164 00:19:40.550 --> 00:19:44.130 Timo Glastra: and great credential request. 165 00:19:44.650 --> 00:19:59.149 Timo Glastra: here it in here it looks for a link. Secret. Id. If you want to use a custom link secret. if not, it tries to find the default link secret, and if it does not find it I it 166 00:19:59.340 --> 00:20:02.400 Timo Glastra: trust this error. So 167 00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:10.910 Timo Glastra: are you? Could it be that you're swallowing the error, or that A of J is maybe swallowing the error on some layer. 168 00:20:12.100 --> 00:20:17.950 Clecio Varjao: yeah could be. I'll ask Jason about how 169 00:20:18.850 --> 00:20:23.810 Clecio Varjao: how this surface? I can get a little bit more information. But 170 00:20:24.820 --> 00:20:25.500 Timo Glastra: yeah. 171 00:20:27.470 --> 00:20:33.370 Timo Glastra: I think we can maybe like the race condition is a very 172 00:20:34.840 --> 00:20:43.519 Timo Glastra: like very small chance. So I love. Maybe it's fine to have that race condition. 174 00:20:55.010 --> 00:20:57.390 Timo Glastra: or 175 00:20:59.110 --> 00:21:05.899 Timo Glastra: Yeah, but I'm not. I'm not quite sure if that is the intense that you have one linked secret for all the tenants. 176 00:21:08.660 --> 00:21:14.270 Timo Glastra: no, you will have a unique link secret for tenants. 177 00:21:15.870 --> 00:21:19.849 Timo Glastra: So the default link secret that is, 178 00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:33.579 Timo Glastra: being fetched here is for a specific agent context, and the agent context is different for each. It's tenants. So this will return a different value. For based on which tenant you're currently interacting with. 179 00:21:34.830 --> 00:21:39.979 Ariel Gentile: yeah, the the the device thing about that is that we have. We will need to implement that 180 00:21:40.110 --> 00:21:47.279 Ariel Gentile: in both all their services, I mean the and on credits and the in the SDK, and we have to make sure that 181 00:21:47.380 --> 00:21:48.970 Ariel Gentile: we will not forget 182 00:21:49.120 --> 00:21:57.890 Ariel Gentile: when implementing another. If if we are going to another holder service. 183 00:22:06.510 --> 00:22:07.260 Timo Glastra: Yeah. 184 00:22:09.900 --> 00:22:14.210 Timo Glastra: yeah. Okay. 185 00:22:14.920 --> 00:22:25.929 Timo Glastra: So if we implement in the older 186 00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:29.120 Timo Glastra: surface, we need to do it 187 00:22:30.670 --> 00:22:36.520 Timo Glastra: twice, I think, yeah, it's it's not the biggest change. So 188 00:22:36.750 --> 00:22:43.600 Timo Glastra: having to implement it twice is is probably fine for this. yeah. So 189 00:22:43.680 --> 00:22:48.610 Timo Glastra: based in this, what do we think would be the best approach here. 190 00:22:57.800 --> 00:23:01.599 Ariel Gentile: I I like to do it in the in the Holder service. 191 00:23:01.840 --> 00:23:02.830 Ariel Gentile: probably 192 00:23:03.410 --> 00:23:04.830 Ariel Gentile: about the 193 00:23:04.980 --> 00:23:08.079 Ariel Gentile: I mean, it's it's a it's a 194 00:23:09.790 --> 00:23:11.270 Ariel Gentile: I think it's the more 195 00:23:11.500 --> 00:23:16.759 Ariel Gentile: straightforward way to do it right now. But, I think 196 00:23:17.310 --> 00:23:21.090 Ariel Gentile: we will need to find our way to to do what you 197 00:23:21.280 --> 00:23:23.270 Ariel Gentile: there about the 198 00:23:23.300 --> 00:23:26.770 Ariel Gentile: initialization for our nation context. 199 00:23:27.970 --> 00:23:31.980 Ariel Gentile: especially because we already have this issue on the mediation. 200 00:23:32.450 --> 00:23:34.469 Ariel Gentile: and we will probably have it 201 00:23:34.520 --> 00:23:36.590 Ariel Gentile: or other more. This, as well. 202 00:23:37.780 --> 00:23:38.550 you know. 203 00:23:38.700 --> 00:23:40.150 Timo Glastra: I mean. 204 00:23:41.950 --> 00:23:46.020 Berend Sliedrecht: that's also my, my, my preferred way to do it. Yeah. 205 00:23:47.120 --> 00:23:53.219 Clecio Varjao: So, oh, sorry. What do you mean by holder service? Is that live it in externalized. 206 00:23:53.820 --> 00:24:02.349 Timo Glastra: So it will be in here. So in here, instead of throwing an error, they'll just I don't know whether they's health or service. Okay, got it? 207 00:24:02.440 --> 00:24:07.730 Timo Glastra: Yeah. And then we'll do the same in the in the SDK older surface. 208 00:24:11.220 --> 00:24:23.460 Clecio Varjao: have you thought about how we're gonna do the you duplication of that in the SDK. How is that going to be communicated setting the road map? 209 00:24:25.370 --> 00:24:27.269 Timo Glastra: So what do you mean? Exactly. 210 00:24:28.610 --> 00:24:39.250 Clecio Varjao: So when you say in the in the SDK. I I think about the the in the SDK Rest library that we just went through for removing and replacing 211 00:24:39.450 --> 00:24:43.279 Timo Glastra: Is that what you mean? Are you talking about that? Hold one? 212 00:24:44.990 --> 00:25:06.690 Timo Glastra: Yeah. So we still have here. because we didn't want to make it like you have to move over now. But like, allow for period. So we still have a support for the in the SDK service, and that has the same create credential request. 213 00:25:06.700 --> 00:25:12.239 Timo Glastra: it does the same check here. So we just have to do like the default. Creation 2 times 214 00:25:12.710 --> 00:25:17.069 Clecio Varjao: is is to go to keep supporting or duplicate it. 215 00:25:17.990 --> 00:25:36.700 Timo Glastra: I think, deprecated as as soon as we can. I think we should keep it, maybe in for one or 2 2 versions more. and then remove it. if it's not needed anymore, I think yeah, would would be really nice if we can get rid of it sooner rather than later. 216 00:25:41.270 --> 00:25:50.560 Clecio Varjao: Do do we need to start adding some duplication markers or duplication warnings that this module is going to be duplicated. 217 00:25:52.140 --> 00:26:16.539 Timo Glastra: That's good for? Yeah, we have for new modules. We in the module. We now have this warning. this modules experimental and could have an expect breaking changes. We're using this module so maybe we can add like similar warning. But more like this module is deprecated. Please migrate to this, and then we can add a link to the documentation. 218 00:26:17.300 --> 00:26:18.030 Clecio Varjao: yeah. 219 00:26:43.110 --> 00:26:43.870 Timo Glastra: cool 220 00:26:53.450 --> 00:26:55.239 Timo Glastra: anything else on this issue. 221 00:27:02.510 --> 00:27:10.470 Clecio Varjao: the just about checking. So right now it raises an air like you implying that instead of raising a here, we will out of create. 222 00:27:12.090 --> 00:27:12.770 Timo Glastra: Yeah. 223 00:27:15.210 --> 00:27:19.969 Timo Glastra: I think so. I, yeah, do. We need an option for this? 224 00:27:21.150 --> 00:27:26.330 Timo Glastra: so you can choose better to how to create it. Or. 225 00:27:26.990 --> 00:27:38.299 Timo Glastra: yeah, I'm not too keen on adding more options. So if if the if the default to is makes sense to create a link secret, then maybe we should just create it by default. But 226 00:27:39.150 --> 00:27:42.040 Timo Glastra: yeah, maybe we need to have an option for this. 227 00:27:44.570 --> 00:27:50.420 Ariel Gentile: Yeah, yeah, it's it's a it's a computation option you have to create in secret, or something like that. 228 00:27:51.550 --> 00:27:59.010 Ariel Gentile: The question is, if it will be true by default, or or if it will be forced by the phone 229 00:27:59.540 --> 00:28:06.979 Ariel Gentile: currently in the, in, the, in, the, in the SDK, is, is it? I automatically created the link secret? Or 230 00:28:08.840 --> 00:28:10.760 Ariel Gentile: are we doing it manually 231 00:28:10.900 --> 00:28:13.130 Ariel Gentile: or 232 00:28:13.400 --> 00:28:22.310 Timo Glastra: in? We do. No, it's automatically created when you create to wallet. So the wallet when you created the wallet. We also created the the link secret. 233 00:28:23.250 --> 00:28:24.030 Okay? 234 00:28:24.510 --> 00:28:34.739 Timo Glastra: And you had the option to pass the link secret. Id, because that is a use case. We've heard, I think, from the Epsa team, or they already had a 235 00:28:34.770 --> 00:28:46.809 Timo Glastra: a link secret in the wallet, so Then it wouldn't be marked as the default in a of. But they did want to use that specific link secret. Id. So if we 236 00:28:47.180 --> 00:28:51.140 Timo Glastra: yeah, we need to look at a way, how 237 00:28:52.300 --> 00:28:53.440 Timo Glastra: to 238 00:28:57.410 --> 00:28:58.860 Timo Glastra: yeah, how to 239 00:28:58.910 --> 00:29:01.839 Timo Glastra: make sure that still works. 240 00:29:03.500 --> 00:29:04.240 Timo Glastra: yeah. 241 00:29:09.010 --> 00:29:14.219 Timo Glastra: Should that also be an ancient option? Then, like the link secret id you want to use or 242 00:29:15.700 --> 00:29:20.070 Ariel Gentile: no, I don't think it would be an ancient option that 243 00:29:20.780 --> 00:29:34.680 Ariel Gentile: you can then just use. You can then send set out to create link secret to false. You can manually create the record and stuff. Probably. Yeah, because also you you, you can also specify the links it Iv. 244 00:29:35.150 --> 00:29:36.710 Ariel Gentile: A on the 245 00:29:36.990 --> 00:29:47.659 Ariel Gentile: on. The caller service is running from. So you can also have a you, you can always have a way to specify your your own Id for for each flow. 246 00:29:48.870 --> 00:29:50.020 Timo Glastra: So maybe 247 00:29:50.190 --> 00:29:51.210 Ariel Gentile: it's fine. 248 00:29:51.820 --> 00:29:55.049 Timo Glastra: Okay. yeah, that sounds good. 249 00:30:02.830 --> 00:30:03.630 Timo Glastra: cool 250 00:30:04.260 --> 00:30:09.970 Timo Glastra: Then. 251 00:30:11.720 --> 00:30:17.859 Timo Glastra: maybe we can talk about the future. If J or 252 00:30:20.440 --> 00:30:35.910 Timo Glastra: let me see. I also wanted to give a short demo of a Maybe we can do that now is of a what we've been working on that's built on a of that's also open source. 253 00:30:37.130 --> 00:30:38.660 Timo Glastra: let me see. 254 00:30:41.370 --> 00:30:42.310 Timo Glastra: So 255 00:30:44.350 --> 00:30:45.889 Timo Glastra: this is the 256 00:30:46.470 --> 00:30:48.990 Timo Glastra: repository. 257 00:30:50.180 --> 00:30:57.610 Timo Glastra: and it's also published to the to, the to Google play store and the app stores. and it's 258 00:30:57.760 --> 00:30:59.170 Timo Glastra: currently a very 259 00:30:59.580 --> 00:31:21.799 Timo Glastra: simple wallet. it supports receiving credentials and sharing them. And it's fully built on open Iv for verify credentials, so it doesn't yet. We will extend it, but it doesn't get support did go more on them credits or any ledger at all, it's a fully 260 00:31:21.980 --> 00:31:32.369 Timo Glastra: it's based on. Did Web did key the Jwk so no blockchain. And it also supports. Jwt, credentials. 261 00:31:33.590 --> 00:31:37.379 Timo Glastra: I think, yeah, what I really like about it is that 262 00:31:37.500 --> 00:31:45.599 Timo Glastra: we yeah, it's it. It really shows that you can now also use Fj to build stuff that is not necessarily 263 00:31:46.200 --> 00:31:59.890 Timo Glastra: hypnotic errors or high pleasure indie or hypotheticals, but you can also build. Use it to build a opening for PC. Wallet, where you still use the the, the the core of the framework. 264 00:32:00.300 --> 00:32:08.539 Timo Glastra: for the crypto and the ditch and and everything. so yeah. The only 265 00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:19.010 Timo Glastra: we have in terms of oh, it's not here. It's in the the apps So we use 266 00:32:19.300 --> 00:32:28.269 Timo Glastra: Ariz. I'll score for this one, but not in the Vdr. Or on of credit for us. So just uscar for the crypto and the storage 267 00:32:29.470 --> 00:32:33.850 Timo Glastra: and I can do it quick. 268 00:32:34.920 --> 00:32:36.830 Timo Glastra: Demo. 269 00:32:42.280 --> 00:32:43.680 Timo Glastra: correct myself 270 00:33:18.350 --> 00:33:20.249 Timo Glastra: all right. His you, Miss Cree. 271 00:33:22.150 --> 00:33:23.120 Berend Sliedrecht: Yes. 272 00:33:23.620 --> 00:33:24.470 Timo Glastra: perfect. 273 00:33:26.210 --> 00:33:53.040 Timo Glastra: So this is one of the flows like it's it's it's part of a ditch intro profile we're working on that's based on open D for PC, and that's what we're also, I've been working on with the D's book chain coalition, and and so I can start off by getting a credential and if you want, you can install the wallet from the stores, and also 274 00:33:53.120 --> 00:33:57.709 Timo Glastra: Test it out. I'll post the link here. 275 00:33:58.080 --> 00:34:01.770 Timo Glastra: also to 276 00:34:03.350 --> 00:34:08.230 Timo Glastra: repo Link here. There's all the links also. 277 00:34:09.230 --> 00:34:12.880 Timo Glastra: So I feel in all my fields. 278 00:34:13.100 --> 00:34:19.269 Timo Glastra: and just for the demo purpose. Normally this would be derived from somewhere else. 279 00:34:19.620 --> 00:34:21.519 Timo Glastra: So 280 00:34:21.610 --> 00:34:29.289 Timo Glastra: once I have done that I can. open my wallet. I already have quite some in there. 281 00:34:29.330 --> 00:34:36.629 Timo Glastra: And I can receive a credential with branding and the credential, the attributes we just had. 282 00:34:36.670 --> 00:34:38.890 Timo Glastra: Now it has been added to my wallet. 283 00:34:38.909 --> 00:34:50.220 Timo Glastra: And the next thing I can do I can now use this for several use cases, but one of them is signing into the ditch book, chain coalition website. so I can 284 00:34:50.489 --> 00:35:07.249 Timo Glastra: scan 9. This cure code and I get approved request, and it says, like, right, which field. So you want to share, and under the who this uses the presentation exchange specification from this 285 00:35:07.910 --> 00:35:12.069 Timo Glastra: and so I can. A request. I can accept it. 286 00:35:12.250 --> 00:35:19.779 Timo Glastra: It will be shared, and then I'm signed in, and you can now see, I'm signed in as Demo, so I think, especially for 287 00:35:20.050 --> 00:35:38.270 Timo Glastra: case where you do want to do sign in The opening for PC. Stack provides a quite streamlined flow. because it's basically all out and all that stuff which is yeah, being used primarily for authentication and stuff. so yeah, 288 00:35:39.040 --> 00:35:48.559 Timo Glastra: as I said, open source, so feel free to to run it yourself or modify it, or you would like, 289 00:35:50.060 --> 00:35:50.760 Timo Glastra: yeah. 290 00:35:57.150 --> 00:35:57.910 Charles Lanahan: cool. 291 00:36:00.750 --> 00:36:06.059 Ariel Gentile: very, very nice. So did did you manage to to to get it 292 00:36:06.430 --> 00:36:15.029 Ariel Gentile: a published on the app store in in Apple? Because I have seen in your that you got to reject it, Reflected, because it was too 293 00:36:15.310 --> 00:36:17.659 Ariel Gentile: similar to what it said. 294 00:36:17.920 --> 00:36:33.750 Timo Glastra: Yeah, we got rejected, and then we at least it like with like all the so like all the previews we have, we remove those, then they accept it. And then we tried 295 00:36:33.820 --> 00:36:49.249 Timo Glastra: in the end. What did the trick is we removed the the title wallet here, and we edit a logo here, and I think that's what did it? Because if you look at the apple wallet design 296 00:36:50.350 --> 00:37:03.320 Timo Glastra: They have, like the title wallet here as well, and I think that was causing it to be very similar. But yeah, as you can see it. It looks quite similar to to. But I'm happy. They accepted it in the end. 297 00:37:03.760 --> 00:37:05.320 Ariel Gentile: Yeah, that's fine. 298 00:37:08.140 --> 00:37:09.420 Clecio Varjao: That's awesome. 299 00:37:10.170 --> 00:37:10.850 Timo Glastra: Cool. 300 00:37:13.020 --> 00:37:16.370 Timo Glastra: then, 301 00:37:16.470 --> 00:37:18.629 Timo Glastra: next topic, future of 302 00:37:19.160 --> 00:37:21.569 Timo Glastra: if J. 303 00:37:22.930 --> 00:37:24.120 Timo Glastra: do you 304 00:37:24.640 --> 00:37:37.939 Timo Glastra: have specific topics or like questions, you want to start with glacier? Or do you want to share some slides, or do you want me to go ahead and just start talking? Or how do you want to approach? 305 00:37:38.080 --> 00:37:44.289 Clecio Varjao: I don't have any slides. So actually just answer one. The question it was about expos. So 306 00:37:44.350 --> 00:37:53.739 Clecio Varjao: that the wallet that you guys are creating it, it seems to be was done using expo right? 307 00:37:56.280 --> 00:38:08.699 Clecio Varjao: So the question that I get I get people reaching out to me on a fairly frequent basis, asking about, oh, so there is a wallet. 308 00:38:08.840 --> 00:38:10.620 Clecio Varjao: There is a by fault wallet. 309 00:38:11.640 --> 00:38:16.390 Clecio Varjao: and and there's a whole bunch of components in this area's ecosystem. 310 00:38:16.430 --> 00:38:20.159 Clecio Varjao: which one should it go? Where do I go? Right? 311 00:38:20.360 --> 00:38:29.210 Clecio Varjao: So of course, we we like Fj, and and and the shared components and and and devolution that is that is happening. 312 00:38:29.360 --> 00:38:30.900 but it's also a whole 313 00:38:31.680 --> 00:38:34.700 Clecio Varjao: other libraries out there. 314 00:38:35.250 --> 00:38:41.590 Clecio Varjao: so the question is 315 00:38:42.320 --> 00:38:48.010 Clecio Varjao: is to go for Fj to remain Javascript. 316 00:38:48.730 --> 00:38:51.480 Clecio Varjao: negative in a way, although 317 00:38:51.620 --> 00:38:56.239 Clecio Varjao: there, there are a few native dependencies already. 318 00:38:56.550 --> 00:38:59.000 Clecio Varjao: Or is that go to? 319 00:39:00.370 --> 00:39:20.230 Clecio Varjao: To? Maybe facilitating that the rapid development that maybe was having issues within this in the SDK and and some other stuff under the hood. I understand there is a flexibility to enabling that fast development in in the Javascript side. It's easier, potentially cheaper to develop. 320 00:39:20.340 --> 00:39:25.889 Clecio Varjao: But where we're starting is that consistence in the in the ecosystem 321 00:39:26.360 --> 00:39:28.659 Clecio Varjao: across different implementations? 322 00:39:29.270 --> 00:39:33.299 Clecio Varjao: is there an opportunity to to start 323 00:39:34.030 --> 00:39:37.899 Clecio Varjao: moving as as maybe 324 00:39:38.140 --> 00:39:44.400 Clecio Varjao: Vcx matured. Then afj just leverage that or did calm. 325 00:39:45.560 --> 00:39:52.660 Clecio Varjao: I know stabilizes, and there is leverage of the did come from from this. 326 00:39:52.680 --> 00:39:55.420 Clecio Varjao: there's a rest implementation or something like that. 327 00:39:55.450 --> 00:40:05.609 Clecio Varjao: I'm just trying to understand a little bit. W. We're where do you think the project is gonna go, or where where's the vision for now? When? 328 00:40:05.670 --> 00:40:10.949 Clecio Varjao: What do you think about the things the other things are at play, and 329 00:40:15.070 --> 00:40:15.990 Timo Glastra: that's 330 00:40:16.120 --> 00:40:23.869 Timo Glastra: hey? Good question. anyone that that wants to as has some thought on this already, or 331 00:40:34.730 --> 00:40:42.740 Timo Glastra: alright then, I'll I'll give it to shot So I think, yeah, one of the things you mentioned is like, 332 00:40:43.690 --> 00:41:05.009 Timo Glastra: having a lot of it's implemented in in type script. Javascript allows for quite flexible developments. which I think is nice, like there are maybe some downsides to using javascript and and some things that you maybe wouldn't have if you implemented in rest, I think, probably 333 00:41:05.490 --> 00:41:07.719 Timo Glastra: like in the end you can run it in more. 334 00:41:08.130 --> 00:41:16.639 Timo Glastra: Expose it to more languages if you write it in in in something like rest. because you can write rappers. 335 00:41:16.880 --> 00:41:40.830 Timo Glastra: and the performance probably also better if you write it in rest. so I think there's something to say for it. I am less fan of having a lot of it implemented in another language, because then it becomes complexer. If you want to do You either need to have a very minimal Api exposed in the wrapper. 336 00:41:40.830 --> 00:41:49.589 Timo Glastra: or you have very advanced Api. With that means the rapper layer becomes really complex. And I think also F of I, 337 00:41:49.660 --> 00:41:51.090 Timo Glastra: that's quite some 338 00:41:51.530 --> 00:41:55.790 Timo Glastra: performance impact, so that you also lose a lot 339 00:41:55.880 --> 00:42:14.169 Timo Glastra: of the advantages of having a fast language like, for, for example. So then I would rather say, you you move mostly to another language. but I think in terms of future of Aj. I think 340 00:42:14.670 --> 00:42:20.119 Timo Glastra: we probably want to like add more features to make it more 341 00:42:20.140 --> 00:42:22.710 Timo Glastra: suitable, for I think a 342 00:42:22.790 --> 00:42:31.830 Timo Glastra: sure for environments. That's something we're really interested to announce has been used a lot in mobile environments. But we're now starting to use it in in 343 00:42:32.240 --> 00:42:42.970 Timo Glastra: sure for environments. And to actually start using it on a large scale, like having managing hundreds of thousands of wallets in an agent. 344 00:42:43.540 --> 00:42:44.560 Timo Glastra: and 345 00:42:44.670 --> 00:42:55.740 Timo Glastra: So there's definitely work to be done there, because, like, we now have most Tennessee and and but like, there's definitely components that are going to break on that skill. 346 00:42:55.880 --> 00:42:57.720 Timo Glastra: and 347 00:42:58.320 --> 00:43:07.929 Timo Glastra: I think, making it more modular and maybe extracting some stuff like there's a lot of code in the framework which also adds complexity. So I think 348 00:43:08.190 --> 00:43:12.610 Timo Glastra: beer, and has lately done some 349 00:43:12.630 --> 00:43:20.830 Timo Glastra: great work on like writing some smaller libraries. Let me see if I can 350 00:43:20.990 --> 00:43:23.240 Timo Glastra: find some here. 351 00:43:24.520 --> 00:43:35.690 Timo Glastra: yeah. So like, implementing selective disclosure. jobs and implementing dates in typescript. So as like. 352 00:43:35.720 --> 00:43:42.379 Timo Glastra: yeah, more for we scope libraries which allow you to 353 00:43:42.490 --> 00:44:07.979 Timo Glastra: bars. It did create a did document, and and and have to validation in there. And I also asked Karen to to give a presentation on that in the next few weeks, I think. Yeah. So, extracting more code over time out of the framework and making them general purpose. Typescript libraries is more of the direction. I would see it going then moving stuff to 354 00:44:08.100 --> 00:44:13.249 Timo Glastra: rest, for example. and having it in another 355 00:44:13.280 --> 00:44:21.549 Timo Glastra: language, because I think with that we could remove some complexity from the framework itself. 356 00:44:21.720 --> 00:44:34.009 Timo Glastra: We could make it usable. for all the libraries. For example, you have to foram or framework, and if there is like general purpose libraries that we can create, we can share some some 357 00:44:34.080 --> 00:45:02.999 Timo Glastra: codes between those frameworks as well. And the framework Ofj really becomes more of the glue that clues together the different libraries. So if you want to use dates with Sd. Jolts a. Ofj. Would depend on both of these libraries and make sure they work nicely together instead of you having to write the glue between those different libraries, but you can all always directly, depend on it. 358 00:45:04.070 --> 00:45:07.690 Timo Glastra: yeah. I think that's why 359 00:45:07.890 --> 00:45:13.150 Timo Glastra: I see it mostly going. I don't know if people have things to add or like to with this? 360 00:45:19.840 --> 00:45:22.910 Ariel Gentile: Well, I think you can. There is a 361 00:45:23.860 --> 00:45:25.520 Ariel Gentile: this 362 00:45:27.720 --> 00:45:30.999 Ariel Gentile: remaining discussion about the about 363 00:45:31.440 --> 00:45:39.910 Ariel Gentile: moving on to the open. What it foundation, right? You asked me about my opinion about that last week, but you didn't respond. 364 00:45:44.140 --> 00:45:48.889 Timo Glastra: Yeah, sorry I I've been really busy with. 365 00:45:49.090 --> 00:45:56.379 Timo Glastra: we had deadlines for this wallet this week. So I I I've been there. 366 00:45:57.330 --> 00:46:00.550 Ariel Gentile: But but but I think I I I think that that some 367 00:46:00.580 --> 00:46:07.019 Ariel Gentile: so something I'm sorry I'm I'm thinking, is that 368 00:46:07.620 --> 00:46:08.540 Ariel Gentile: yeah. 369 00:46:09.520 --> 00:46:16.779 Ariel Gentile: Now that there are some other. Some of the libraries also written in in, in in shells, people typescript like. 370 00:46:19.160 --> 00:46:26.350 Ariel Gentile: what's the different? That? What? What would the Afsh position against those? 371 00:46:26.400 --> 00:46:32.160 Ariel Gentile: All the libraries that also. somehow. for the same purposes? 372 00:46:32.380 --> 00:46:44.429 Ariel Gentile: Because, you know, with you can also deal with the deeds and Vcs. Or maybe not. But this is in general. 373 00:46:44.670 --> 00:46:50.199 Ariel Gentile: and and also do. Some did come and and and and implement some custom protocols as well. 374 00:46:50.900 --> 00:46:51.820 Ariel Gentile: So 375 00:46:52.110 --> 00:46:55.620 Ariel Gentile: maybe 376 00:46:55.740 --> 00:46:57.230 Ariel Gentile: if we are 377 00:46:57.660 --> 00:47:01.310 Ariel Gentile: thinking or or moving towards the 378 00:47:02.900 --> 00:47:05.070 Ariel Gentile: the open id 379 00:47:05.430 --> 00:47:10.150 Ariel Gentile: for Vc's approach, I mean, if we are going to support different 380 00:47:10.170 --> 00:47:12.639 Ariel Gentile: different transport. 381 00:47:13.240 --> 00:47:18.940 Ariel Gentile: and we are moving to the Open World Foundation. Maybe that could that that could 382 00:47:19.790 --> 00:47:20.930 Ariel Gentile: the 383 00:47:20.970 --> 00:47:26.630 Ariel Gentile: an opportunity for a if she to become a more generic or more general. 384 00:47:26.820 --> 00:47:30.389 Ariel Gentile: It's a I frame, or like we mentioned some weeks ago. 385 00:47:39.050 --> 00:47:41.140 Timo Glastra: Yeah. that makes sense. 386 00:47:42.340 --> 00:47:45.029 Timo Glastra: Gracio. You also want to say something. 387 00:47:47.990 --> 00:47:59.900 Clecio Varjao: just wanna share like this document. which I'm trying to figure it out and get confused with all those 388 00:48:00.540 --> 00:48:05.469 Clecio Varjao: government acronym. So is this Dutch government? 389 00:48:05.660 --> 00:48:09.420 Timo Glastra: Yeah, yeah, I think I shared this with, John 390 00:48:09.460 --> 00:48:12.159 Timo Glastra: last week. yeah. 391 00:48:12.740 --> 00:48:23.649 Clecio Varjao: And and and I've seen this question over and over again about the the again mobile development is like, Oh, do we go, native? Do we use 392 00:48:23.870 --> 00:48:25.729 Clecio Varjao: something else? Right? 393 00:48:25.790 --> 00:48:36.559 Clecio Varjao: And and for me it's less of what is the language that is develop it? But it's more of like, what can I build on top of it? So 394 00:48:36.570 --> 00:48:42.660 Clecio Varjao: if it is of react native and and and javascript and provide. SDK, 395 00:48:43.940 --> 00:48:54.690 Clecio Varjao: I'm not concerned about how curious that implementation is as long as it's working, and I can work in in the language that I 396 00:48:54.720 --> 00:48:57.590 Clecio Varjao: chose, for whatever reason. That's fine. 397 00:48:58.720 --> 00:49:11.329 Clecio Varjao: I think one of that they make. It's about this kind of a cross platform compilation. And they mentioned a phone gap and react native and flater. And those things come and go. 398 00:49:11.350 --> 00:49:21.999 Clecio Varjao: so so it becomes less less agnostic. So that's that's my, that's my concern. And and and and my point about it. 399 00:49:22.170 --> 00:49:37.629 Clecio Varjao: But that's fine. If the intention is to to remain that kind of a more, closer to nodes, development and node language as well. That's that's understandable. That's a direction that the project want to go. 400 00:49:37.780 --> 00:49:45.459 Clecio Varjao: But I just also want to raise that in the scenario, some, some all that would automatically get 401 00:49:45.650 --> 00:49:58.940 Clecio Varjao: and some government automatic exclude this this framework right from the get go. so so it depends where where you want to go. So so I'm 402 00:49:59.130 --> 00:50:13.730 Clecio Varjao: I like, I said. I've had people reach out and asking to me about integrating existing applications into their adding verifiable credential, or or a didcom features into a app, an existing app 403 00:50:13.760 --> 00:50:20.489 Clecio Varjao: existing app are not necessary within react native. It could be written native code 404 00:50:20.670 --> 00:50:25.219 Clecio Varjao: and and that hasn't been that smooth for what I understand. 405 00:50:26.390 --> 00:50:35.050 Clecio Varjao: so so it's just a question for the community where? Where? Where they want to go. I mean, there's no right or wrong. It's just where do you want to go. 406 00:50:36.380 --> 00:50:38.279 Timo Glastra: Yeah. 407 00:50:39.360 --> 00:50:42.029 Timo Glastra: So that's a good thing. Yeah, I think 408 00:50:42.400 --> 00:50:49.439 Clecio Varjao: so. So I guess the the the main, the main topic is, do you want to remain as a 409 00:50:49.880 --> 00:51:00.090 Clecio Varjao: there is Javascript framework, or it's more of I don't know if I can compare, for instance, to aws, sdks that 410 00:51:00.220 --> 00:51:05.650 Clecio Varjao: behind the scenes they call executables do whatever it is that needs to do. 411 00:51:06.320 --> 00:51:13.460 Clecio Varjao: that is compatible with with with some interface. Right? So it doesn't. It's not necessarily fully 412 00:51:14.040 --> 00:51:16.409 Clecio Varjao: implemented, although 413 00:51:16.470 --> 00:51:26.630 Clecio Varjao: there's some sometimes code duplication. which is fine. coding duplication is not all bad. But it's just. I I just want to ask the question. 414 00:51:27.900 --> 00:51:31.180 Timo Glastra: yeah. yeah. I think 415 00:51:32.200 --> 00:51:46.339 Timo Glastra: first off, I think there is a lot of like assumptions in this document that I don't agree with. I think their take on the cross-platform development. And then all these things. I don't think they're 416 00:51:48.390 --> 00:52:00.759 Timo Glastra: the right assumptions. They're making But data site, I think it is an issue that, like you can build natively in Ios and Android easily with this tech 417 00:52:01.600 --> 00:52:05.680 Timo Glastra: question is always like in the end. 418 00:52:06.810 --> 00:52:11.100 Timo Glastra: do we need a single implementation? 419 00:52:11.190 --> 00:52:24.049 Timo Glastra: for all use cases? or not? I think. having it implemented in rust can work. I know, for example, like the you have the 420 00:52:24.630 --> 00:52:29.160 Timo Glastra: spruce id libraries which are 421 00:52:29.340 --> 00:52:33.200 Timo Glastra: I think they have. Yeah, the did get 422 00:52:33.330 --> 00:52:38.629 Timo Glastra: which is written in 423 00:52:40.070 --> 00:52:44.220 Timo Glastra: rest, and I think it exposes 424 00:52:44.490 --> 00:52:55.830 Timo Glastra: They expose it to a lot of different languages. which is nice, and I'm not sure to build an ios and android any flutter, and I think brick native falls on their roadmap. Maybe. 425 00:52:55.840 --> 00:53:00.299 Timo Glastra: so I think yeah, that's 426 00:53:00.570 --> 00:53:11.759 Timo Glastra: that's something that would work in this case. but I think it can also sometimes add a lot of complexity if you want to have the same thing working in all environments. and if you look at 427 00:53:11.790 --> 00:53:12.820 Timo Glastra: like a 428 00:53:12.860 --> 00:53:18.069 Timo Glastra: a lot of libraries are just like, if you look at Jwt. Libraries, they're 429 00:53:18.310 --> 00:53:25.539 Timo Glastra: often now just implement it in every language again. and the question is like 430 00:53:25.760 --> 00:53:42.789 Timo Glastra: over time. I think more and more libraries will come available for this. Like you have more date libraries, more data with T. Sd job libraries PC libraries. And then, yeah. if we also get that for 431 00:53:42.930 --> 00:53:45.670 Timo Glastra: Kotlin, 432 00:53:46.010 --> 00:53:56.030 Timo Glastra: because I know a lot of people are now working on, on, on coupling for Sd chilt libraries, and if we then also get that for Swift, for example, then 433 00:53:56.190 --> 00:54:10.820 Timo Glastra: it would become a bit more like you now have with development. Where, if you're gonna make a a mobile app you often have, like different dependencies to achieve the same team, which isn't always the easiest But yeah, 434 00:54:11.880 --> 00:54:18.919 Timo Glastra: So I don't know if that answers your question. It's not a very concrete answer. But I would say 435 00:54:19.310 --> 00:54:23.440 Timo Glastra: it is a problem. But I don't think it's a problem for 436 00:54:31.590 --> 00:54:33.590 Clecio Varjao: yep. that's fair. 437 00:54:36.280 --> 00:54:36.940 Timo Glastra: Yeah. 438 00:54:38.350 --> 00:54:39.280 Timo Glastra: So 439 00:54:39.720 --> 00:54:47.850 Timo Glastra: it also depends really on like we when we build wallets, we for now, like we've always been in the 440 00:54:48.580 --> 00:54:57.620 Timo Glastra: in the situation where we can choose, react native, or we start from scratch, and then we choose react native. So like, it has been 441 00:54:57.790 --> 00:55:01.859 Timo Glastra: a limitation for us and I. There would be 442 00:55:02.210 --> 00:55:05.950 Timo Glastra: not a lot of cases where I would go with writing 443 00:55:06.110 --> 00:55:11.439 Timo Glastra: 2 wallets in Ios and android separate I think 444 00:55:11.780 --> 00:55:23.640 Timo Glastra: separate from having to do it 2 times. I think there's a lot of complexities in building native applications that are just extracted away, for example, with with Expo, 445 00:55:24.200 --> 00:55:36.659 Timo Glastra: yeah. But that's also my personal opinion. And we're a small team. So yeah, different considerations to make. I think, Charles, you you 446 00:55:36.870 --> 00:55:38.310 Timo Glastra: wanted to say something. 447 00:55:40.670 --> 00:55:47.279 Charles Lanahan: Oh, no, I didn't want to say in particular. I I kind of agree with the glue. 448 00:55:48.410 --> 00:55:58.929 Charles Lanahan: the blue comment, the glue, the path seems like a good one. The reason 3,000. This is a beginner comment. The reason I was attracted to the area. Javascript framework 449 00:55:59.220 --> 00:56:00.400 Charles Lanahan: was for 450 00:56:01.360 --> 00:56:07.590 Charles Lanahan: the chance to do rapid prototyping in react native. And then, if the idea plays out. 451 00:56:08.060 --> 00:56:15.129 Charles Lanahan: maybe making that decision to re-implement, or or, you know. just from the framework from there. But 452 00:56:16.720 --> 00:56:18.639 Charles Lanahan: but that seems like a goal that that 453 00:56:20.770 --> 00:56:28.009 Charles Lanahan: that is, that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that 454 00:56:28.180 --> 00:56:32.299 Charles Lanahan: that kind of thing. So that was not only 455 00:56:33.740 --> 00:56:35.090 Charles Lanahan: comment on the issue. 456 00:56:36.670 --> 00:56:37.370 Timo Glastra: Yeah. 457 00:56:38.590 --> 00:56:39.839 Timo Glastra: that makes sense. 458 00:56:41.630 --> 00:56:43.340 Berend Sliedrecht: I think something that that 459 00:56:43.400 --> 00:56:49.270 Berend Sliedrecht: might be worth investigating in the far, far future would be just 460 00:56:49.490 --> 00:56:56.100 Berend Sliedrecht: instead of anything with F of I. Because what you mentioned is, there are performance strokes in ffi, and 461 00:56:57.080 --> 00:57:06.469 Berend Sliedrecht: there are small use cases where, like calling something over, if I to rest, is actually faster implementing it in in, in typescript, a lot of times 462 00:57:06.520 --> 00:57:08.810 Berend Sliedrecht: is faster than going over 463 00:57:09.250 --> 00:57:19.779 Berend Sliedrecht: But looking at Webassembly would take a lot of those things away. You don't have to deal with unsafe F by rappers. 464 00:57:20.150 --> 00:57:32.029 Berend Sliedrecht: you have a unified interface. It is. It works very well. It's compuls to Webassembly. You can reuse it within. Now, jazz Browser, and well, very scheduledly reactive right now. 465 00:57:32.100 --> 00:57:34.200 Berend Sliedrecht: And I think if 466 00:57:34.340 --> 00:57:39.010 Berend Sliedrecht: at some point or that it themselves would support web assembly. 467 00:57:39.210 --> 00:57:44.940 Berend Sliedrecht: then that will open up like. I think, a lot 468 00:57:45.020 --> 00:57:53.390 Berend Sliedrecht: because then we can. Well, we we do get some performance back for using a a web assembly or a rust library compiled to web assembly. 469 00:57:53.600 --> 00:58:00.750 Berend Sliedrecht: and we would be able to reuse it, because right now we what we did with shared components, we have to re-implement it in 470 00:58:00.920 --> 00:58:11.510 Berend Sliedrecht: or sorry no Gs F. Ofi, and also in resigned for their specific turtle modules, which is a bit of a or it was a bit of a pay, and we'll be paying for maintenance. 471 00:58:12.430 --> 00:58:15.040 Berend Sliedrecht: And my preference 472 00:58:15.130 --> 00:58:16.810 Berend Sliedrecht: from that experience will 473 00:58:17.790 --> 00:58:30.210 Berend Sliedrecht: always go to if it's possible to implement in time scripts, increments in times. If you're going to use the typescript. also, I think if we have, like the short components right now with. 474 00:58:30.380 --> 00:58:32.300 Berend Sliedrecht: if there is an issue specifically 475 00:58:32.310 --> 00:58:38.340 Berend Sliedrecht: for A of J. They are not all the people in our Ed Aj group that could take those issues up. 476 00:58:38.560 --> 00:58:40.680 Berend Sliedrecht: So if we actually rely on 477 00:58:40.840 --> 00:58:54.499 Berend Sliedrecht: called liners or swift libraries, for example, to to get the job done and to get the products then the end product works. But if there is a small issue. yeah, there are probably a lot of people in our team that could 478 00:58:54.610 --> 00:58:59.970 Berend Sliedrecht: just fix those issues because we, our experience is not that in those languages. 479 00:59:00.160 --> 00:59:06.980 Berend Sliedrecht: so from a maintenance perspective, I think it's yeah quite important to 480 00:59:07.200 --> 00:59:14.480 Berend Sliedrecht: if it's possible to to stick to type scripts. because that's where we are experts. And what we can maintain. 481 00:59:18.940 --> 00:59:20.380 Timo Glastra: Yeah, makes sense. 482 00:59:20.710 --> 00:59:23.889 Timo Glastra: Do you know? on the performance 483 00:59:23.960 --> 00:59:28.019 Timo Glastra: trade off between web assembly and M for 5. 484 00:59:29.010 --> 00:59:42.819 Berend Sliedrecht: yeah, I think it depends on the exact thing you want to run, because there are all the benchmarks like comparing pure node. Js, F of I and Web Assembly, with just running like Fibonacci. 485 00:59:42.880 --> 00:59:50.980 Berend Sliedrecht: Calculate the 1,000 number which is like they're completely useless benchmarks. I. 486 00:59:51.650 --> 01:00:07.120 Berend Sliedrecht: So I'm I'm not a hundred percent sure. but I do know that that's working over web assembly and working over. If I working over web assembly is a little easier, especially with libraries like wasn't buying Gen. Which just generate complete types of interfaces for you. 487 01:00:07.160 --> 01:00:15.410 Berend Sliedrecht: to call those SW. Assembly libraries, and with F of I. Now we we did it together. And it's it's 488 01:00:15.490 --> 01:00:29.610 Berend Sliedrecht: it's a lot of manual labor, and you have to align certain structures because they are aligned in C, so if you like, if your property is in the second place, instead of the first place in the class, then it won't work, and 489 01:00:29.640 --> 01:00:36.680 Berend Sliedrecht: like tools like it wasn't binding that they just take those complexities away. Which is so nice. 490 01:00:42.330 --> 01:00:44.300 Berend Sliedrecht: Yeah, I I would be very 491 01:00:44.520 --> 01:00:50.989 Berend Sliedrecht: hesitant to to use web assembly right now for your native. I I think you you send it on some select to theirs. 492 01:00:51.190 --> 01:01:00.930 Berend Sliedrecht: There is an implementation working of a assembly and a native. And I think I also want some functions to run, but very minimal. But 493 01:01:01.160 --> 01:01:02.520 Berend Sliedrecht: yeah, I I think 494 01:01:02.700 --> 01:01:11.709 Berend Sliedrecht: if we want to support them assembly, it will be if we are native themselves, implemented, because then, you know, you have some support. It will be a lot more stable. Well. 495 01:01:12.020 --> 01:01:14.940 Berend Sliedrecht: we can now hope for it to be more stable, I guess. 496 01:01:15.080 --> 01:01:19.770 Berend Sliedrecht: But yeah. So it's probably in the far future, I guess. 497 01:01:22.070 --> 01:01:24.180 Timo Glastra: Cool. Okay, makes sense. 498 01:01:25.110 --> 01:01:28.789 Timo Glastra: we're out of time 499 01:01:28.970 --> 01:01:47.750 Timo Glastra: So yeah, I think we can close it off for today. if you have a topic you would like to discuss next week. please let me know. I think there are some topics left hanging from last discussion. So once the Wiki back online, I'll make sure to 500 01:01:47.830 --> 01:01:52.620 Timo Glastra: get them out, and we can continue that discussion next week. 501 01:01:53.890 --> 01:01:55.330 Timo Glastra: Cool, thanks to Ron. 502 01:01:55.690 --> 01:01:56.950 Clecio Varjao: Thank you. 503 01:01:56.970 --> 01:01:58.900 Berend Sliedrecht: Thanks, bye, bye.