Char Howland: All right.
Char Howland: Welcome everyone to the Indie contributors. Working group call for June 6, 2023.
Char Howland: Today on the agenda, we'll talk about any updates there might be on the sovereign node, pipeline, and then a discussion about in the community. Contribution, I think, will be the main part of the call, and then any other topics that anybody would like to bring up. as well.
Char Howland: So let's see. I'm obviously we're recording this call, and we'll post it right here on the meeting page Later today we have got the antitrust policy notice written here. We
Char Howland: are following that on this call as well as the Hyper Ledger code of conduct which is linked here. and I'll
Char Howland: send out the Wiki link
Char Howland: if you'd like to put your name on the attendees list that would be wonderful.
Char Howland: Let's see.
Char Howland: I I'm not currently aware of any announcements, but anybody. Does anybody have any announcements to give or introductions to me.
Char Howland: Anybody who would like to introduce themselves on the call or give announcements. That would be a great time.
Lynn Bendixsen: There were a few people at the old link. So we're slowly coming into this meeting.
Char Howland: Anybody is aware of people who don't have the new link.
Char Howland: please. let people know, so they can receive the calendar event. we'll try to try to make sure everybody gets that new link, so that nobody is going to the old room. But yeah.
Char Howland: getting that done, let's see.
Lynn Bendixsen: Can you post that in the link in the in the chat again so I can update my
Char Howland: calendar. Yes, I will do that.
Char Howland: Good idea.
Char Howland: Yeah, I'll probably go back to the
Char Howland: this page calendar of public meetings, and then just re-saved the event for this call. So
Char Howland: yeah.
Char Howland: all right, let's see. So unless anybody has any announcements or introductions they would like to make before we get started.
Char Howland: we can jump into our agenda. up to any updates on the sovereign node pipeline. Wait!
Wade Barnes: No, nothing to report. Unfortunately, back to that very soon.
Char Howland: No worries.
Char Howland: cool.
Char Howland: let's see.
Char Howland: So the next thing on our agenda Steven was going to lead this discussion. I think he's still in the old zoom room. helping people
Char Howland: get some get to the new zoom so we can wait for
Char Howland: wait for him. to start that conversation.
Char Howland: Let's see.
Char Howland: Oh, and there he is. Hello again, Steven.
Stephen Curran: Hello! There!
Char Howland: cool. Yeah, we'll we'll try our best to to get the new zoom like propagated everywhere. but let's see. So we have.
Char Howland: and we have. We have made it to this item in the agenda. so I can turn over to you, would you like to screen share?
Stephen Curran: Sorry? What? What? Where are we in the agenda? the discussion about in the community contribution that you mentioned? Yeah. Okay,
Stephen Curran: hear me? Yeah, I'm not going to screen share. Okay.
Stephen Curran: it's just
Stephen Curran: What I wanted to talk about was, you know, we we have lots of of users on indie network operators. So as far as you know, the well-known one sovereign Id. Union and Dco Candy, the Swiss Id. And then Fin, the starting one.
Stephen Curran: So we have at least those many obviously, that gives us thousands interacting on those networks, issueers, holders, and verifiers.
Stephen Curran: We've got some that are supporting in the indirectly you know, not contributing directly to the code base. Too much. But tools, documentation.
Stephen Curran: hosting community meetings. you know, all things like that, but but very few actual contributors to indie and this has been sort of an ongoing theme. DC. Gov. Sovereign status But he sat us had to
Stephen Curran: back off their Participant Institute for Internet security. We had for a while Robin Clemens. did did a lot of contributions. Bosch has done contributions. But but basically it's right up to the point that we have
Stephen Curran: essentially BC govern sovereigns, sponsoring Wade. wait, Barnes, doing work. And and that's about it. And you know, that's a problem. So
I
Stephen Curran: I'm trying to figure out why we're getting so little contributors and and try to
Stephen Curran: sort of.
Stephen Curran: you know. Figure out how we can get more.
Stephen Curran: you know. I think the reasons are that in the deployments are
Stephen Curran: in these are our utilities, and therefore there's somebody else's problem. Everyone who's using them is working on their own set of challenges to do with deploying things
Stephen Curran: and Indie just works it. It does all that is needed. I I mean, it could use improvements. It could be easier to onboard. It could be easier to, you know, figure out endorsing and things like that. But
Stephen Curran: people just sort of get past that.
Stephen Curran: And and it just works So there's very little demand for new features.
Stephen Curran: and no one is really driving the agenda. We don't have
Stephen Curran: particularly a lot of committed, you know, funding
Stephen Curran: no real product owner other than
Stephen Curran: those who need to accomplish something. and No one whose job is in the
Stephen Curran: the core of Indie. As far as I know, the only people whose jobs are India. Are those
Stephen Curran: deploying it? So so worry about their own instance of it?
Stephen Curran: so I think we have to start thinking about.
Stephen Curran: You know.
Stephen Curran: why are there so few contributors? And if there aren't going to be any contributors, what are we going to do?
Stephen Curran: There aren't very many good options. particularly for those types of communities that are interested in Andy. other ledgers are not particularly appetizing. As far as I know, there's I I on is the big one, Microsoft I on
Stephen Curran: It doesn't at least yet have an oncred support, and it's Bitcoin based, I mean. governments, as far as I know, are not going to want to sign in to a
Stephen Curran: a a ledger that is Bitcoin Base is just not
Stephen Curran: feasible.
Stephen Curran: cryptocurrency based ledgers. There's a whole pile of them. But it's a lot tougher
Stephen Curran: to do that. And outside of that there is
Stephen Curran: you know, governance issues which which is gonna last
Stephen Curran: at least, you know, absolutely with anything we have control over it, we can.
Stephen Curran: We can deploy it. We can run it. We can bring on operators, and so on.
Stephen Curran: the only other one that I'm seeing is did web, but it
Stephen Curran: brings its own range of problems.
Stephen Curran: There's a whole bunch of issues, you know, calling home.
Stephen Curran: So there's the issue of tracking Robustness. Does you know who's operating it with would be inconsistent? obviously, not a mutable subject to hacks. People could hack in and replace the did docs that are posted there.
Stephen Curran: and for good and bad. it's built on the existing Ca, infrastructure. So
Stephen Curran: I I I'm
Stephen Curran: I think we're doing the right things as far as as a community coming up with a road rock. We've got key items to do
Stephen Curran: But we need
Stephen Curran: investments in Indy. And I'm just trying to understand what you know, what others feel about that and how how they feel that we could
Stephen Curran: not just have investment in the deployment of Id, but actual deployment investment in D itself. So I with that, I just throw up for comments.
Stephen Curran: Wait!
Wade Barnes: One of the things I find there are. We get people every once in a while trying to help out on Indie. I think
Wade Barnes: right now. documentation isn't in a good state for people to help out. It's it's kinda
Wade Barnes: old and outdated, and things like that.
Wade Barnes: I'm I'm wondering if a a document refresh
Wade Barnes: would be a good idea, sort of a, you know, having a good getting started guide and and various things on it. of of how we, how we can move, and then
Wade Barnes: come up with some. You know, simpler tasks that we want to do, that we can add to the, you know, good first issues list and things like that.
Stephen Curran: Yeah.
Stephen Curran: And that is something that we, as you know, all of us, are are capable of doing so. That is a good one
Stephen Curran: I've been in it.
Char Howland: It looks like somebody just reached out about that from the mentorship program as well. So that's great. Someone who might even be on the call today on right agnes is that you
Agnes: wonderful yeah, yeah.
Char Howland: yeah, that'll be, and I think
Char Howland: no, we're suggested, and those are both python
Char Howland: heavy. So that'll be great.
Stephen Curran: Any other thoughts from anyone on that.
Bruno Hivert: Hello, Bruno! From idlab. So my general is not working.
Bruno Hivert: yeah, I mean, we noticed on. I've been. We've been talking with weight about that. and I had some hope to get funding for for the ring, for example, the monitoring part of Indie, because it's one thing to have it deployed. But yes, wait.
Stephen Curran: No, I was just agreeing with you. Sorry. Okay, look forward. And my point is, I'm trying to push something to the ideal channel right now in that direction.
Bruno Hivert: and I understand totally where you're sitting. I mean, people see that as just infrastructure and just walks, so no one really interests. But I mean, we have.
Bruno Hivert: we gonna have to to to put some effort into.
Bruno Hivert: I mean, raising. I have a awareness about that. It might just work, but it's like the the rest. If you don't maintain it, it's not. It's gonna fall on the way side eventually.
Stephen Curran: Yeah.
Stephen Curran: I mean, that's the crucial component of it. So it's not insignificant. And I'll actually add that to my notes that there has been that's been one of the larger
Stephen Curran: contributions lately has been.
Stephen Curran: you know, the the It Union work in in containerizing, and then the the work that's been going on has been excellent.
Stephen Curran: but that still does it?
Stephen Curran: It still leaves that whole. That the actual.
Stephen Curran: you know in the software itself is, you know, needs needs to move forward.
Bruno Hivert: Yeah.
Stephen Curran: all right, I'm resisting. I was trying to do a Nathan. I was trying to do a full, Nathan, but I couldn't do it.
Stephen Curran: There was silence. Char, back to you.
Char Howland: let's see.
Char Howland: So those were the main things we had on the agenda today. I I know in in previous calls we have spent time going over issues and Prs in node and platinum, which I think has been
Char Howland: really helpful. So we could continue doing that. I know that we only got a little ways into the issues on Indie plenum.
Char Howland: So we could. We could revisit that
Char Howland: as well. I think there are some some open Prs on Indie node that potentially we could
Char Howland: discuss merge or close. But are there other things that people wanted to bring to the call today?
Char Howland: So let's see, I think we
Char Howland: on issues on Indie plenum, I think 2 weeks ago we started
Char Howland: from the
Char Howland: earliest ones. adding the discussing label.
Char Howland: wait! Do you think it's a a good use of time to go of these on. The call
Wade Barnes: could go through a few more
Char Howland: sounds good.
Wade Barnes: Where do we want to start.
Char Howland: let's see, I think we were. We were starting from the earliest one. So these all look like about 3 years old. and some of them already have the
Char Howland: help wanted. Good first issue tags on them so
Char Howland: because they're probably good ones to keep open unless others have have thoughts on what to do with them? I think we added that 2 weeks ago.
Char Howland: Okay, so we went over those recently and decided to
Char Howland: leave them open.
Char Howland: Let's see.
Char Howland: investigate and fix possible client. Node related exceptions. Leakage into node node processing. Is anybody familiar with this issue?
Wade Barnes: Cool?
Bruno Hivert: But I I can say that I mean looking at the logs of the running in the node. We we we saw them, but we never knew that they were actually they. They shouldn't be there. But I I can say you that if you look at the lock of a running, you know you're gonna have those. Yes.
Bruno Hivert: so this is still happening, at least in the the the version that's running on the on the boon to a 16
Char Howland: good to know.
Char Howland: so probably a good one to keep open potentially, maybe adding the discussing label to it.
Bruno Hivert: yeah.
Char Howland: cool
Wade Barnes: it does still exist. I'm I'm just reading some of the details and the like.
Wade Barnes: Okay, so it can happen in cases where there's
Wade Barnes: there's one particular case where it happens fairly regularly on the sovereign network.
Wade Barnes: I do notes
Wade Barnes: So we wanted to add, discussing
Char Howland: cool
Wade Barnes: done.
Char Howland: document question for request. Handling looks like that was marked as a good first issue.
Char Howland: Does anybody know about the
Char Howland: okay?
Stephen Curran: we just have
Stephen Curran: updated the
Stephen Curran: the text
Wade Barnes: so okay, documentation updates to do there
Char Howland: cool
Char Howland: good to know.
Stephen Curran: it says, document on it, yeah, okay.
Char Howland: incorrect view change messages, consensus calculating.
Wade Barnes: yeah, okay. So everything is in place right now is just a workaround for this issue.
Wade Barnes: So
Wade Barnes: market is help wanted.
Bruno Hivert: I mean, I I I'm not that
Bruno Hivert: in sync with the port base, but
when you say how to
Wade Barnes: I mean you have a you have a walk around, but you, you, you you you're searching for real solution, is it? Yes, correct.
Bruno Hivert: Okay.
Char Howland: okay, replace dependency on in the SDK with Indie.
Wade Barnes: Cdr, this is still needs to be done, doesn't it? We didn't do anything with this and in any of the code with us.
Char Howland: I don't. I? I think. It's in my memory. The the move from any SDK to in TV, or it's been in in terms of the code with us, was more on the area side, but that could be wrong. No, I think you're right. I don't think anything happened with Lenum, so this is still a
Wade Barnes: thing.
Char Howland: Cool.
Char Howland: frozen ledger should propagate to new nodes in the pool.
Wade Barnes: Okay, that hasn't been done
Wade Barnes: discuss those.
Char Howland: What is the use of a frozen ledger?
Wade Barnes: so the only real use case for it at the moment is to
Wade Barnes: if we wanted to get rid of the token ledgers
Wade Barnes: in sovereign based networks.
Wade Barnes: So basically, what it allows you to do is it allows you to freeze the network in time so that it's
Wade Barnes: state root hash doesn't change
Wade Barnes: any more or more like it's fixed. So whether or not the
Wade Barnes: whether or not
Wade Barnes: the ledgers are there anymore, the node will report the the state root hash for those
Wade Barnes: you as well. It's frozen
Wade Barnes: that allows you to. Then
Wade Barnes: either delete
Wade Barnes: delete the ledgers. the the corresponding ledgers, or add nodes to the to the pool. That don't
Wade Barnes: don't do.
Wade Barnes: Don't contain those plugins.
Wade Barnes: So it's it's a fairly limited use case. But it
Wade Barnes: can come in Andy.
Char Howland: Okay.
Wade Barnes: so, and this would be like a low prior, like, a probably a very low priority.
Char Howland: Yeah, okay, good. To know. So
Wade Barnes: so to say that again. What priority would you put this way? I put it as a low priority.
Stephen Curran: Okay? Good.
Wade Barnes: Good. Yeah.
Wade Barnes: So I market as such. Or
Stephen Curran: I mean, should we just close it?
Stephen Curran: It's unlikely to get done. And
Stephen Curran: or yeah, I don't.
Wade Barnes: I'm I'm hesitant to close it because it it is. It is a thing. Yeah.
Stephen Curran: okay, put it to low.
Wade Barnes: Yeah, put a do we have a label for low priority? I'll make. I'll make a
Stephen Curran: sounds good
Char Howland: cool.
Char Howland: What? You 20,004 migrate the code base from 1,604 to 2,004
Char Howland: would this be
Char Howland: completed, based on the acceptance criteria.
Wade Barnes: Yes. cool.
Char Howland: great.
Char Howland: Go to 20 out of 4. Create CD for up to 220,004
Wade Barnes: scroll up to the top.
Wade Barnes: Yeah, that's done cool.
Wade Barnes: I like it. When things are done.
Char Howland: Great!
Stephen Curran: You're not closing them sharp.
Char Howland: I
Stephen Curran: oh, I see. So ways doing it. yeah, I just need to catch up so 20 or 4 migrate code base.
Wade Barnes: I'm all excited to see the coat closes happening, but I can't. Now you can. I'm catching up
Char Howland: cool. That one got closed
Wade Barnes: that already.
Sorry.
Char Howland: cool.
Char Howland: great
Wade Barnes: update pigments module. It's done
Char Howland: nice.
Char Howland: Icq is getting huge.
Char Howland: Let's see.
Char Howland: So it looks like there's potentially a plan.
Char Howland: but not an implementation. Yet
Stephen Curran: has anyone else seen this.
Lynn Bendixsen: I see it as when I get
Lynn Bendixsen: what I've been calling my
Lynn Bendixsen: infinite do change issue that I see it starts to really
Stephen Curran: load up that queue and make the make it huge.
Wade Barnes: So that is. we want help on it.
Char Howland: Sounds like, you could tag for this one.
Wade Barnes: yeah, this is this is still an issue.
Char Howland: okay.
Wade Barnes: very, unfortunately, very familiar with that one
Wade Barnes: see fix issue with Debian package checks on changing with each build that's the one, I just marked as hope one of that
Char Howland: great so
Wade Barnes: so that's a C Icd one right?
Wade Barnes: As opposed to, you know. Python. Yes.
Wade Barnes: that's maybe maybe flag a C Icd, as another label. Okay,
Wade Barnes: let's do that. Where is that? That's a different skill set? Obviously. it is
Char Howland: so upgrade rocks. dB, let's see.
Wade Barnes: So an issue
Char Howland: looks like it.
Char Howland: Upgrade and unpin remaining dependencies.
Wade Barnes: Oh, what were you saying with
pretty little
Wade Barnes: what are we at? rocks? TV? Yeah, that's the issue
Wade Barnes: upgrade
on 10 remaining.
Wade Barnes: And that's still an issue. There's still
Wade Barnes: some PIN dependencies in there.
Char Howland: Github action, Csd enhancements.
Char Howland: This one probably still help wanted.
Wade Barnes: Yes, I'll also assign it to myself, because there's some updates.
Char Howland: Cool.
Wade Barnes: this is related to the one of the other issues that we had.
Char Howland: Okay.
so
Char Howland: cool
Char Howland: test, new view combinations, test scales with some seeds.
Wade Barnes: Oh, I just
Char Howland: okay. Great.
Char Howland: Add virtual development environments to the up and 24 upgrade branch.
Wade Barnes: So history on this one is currently right now the indie any node
Wade Barnes: and in the plan and packages use the system.
Wade Barnes: the system. Python version.
Wade Barnes: which in some ways limits which
Wade Barnes: operating system, you you can deploy it on
Wade Barnes: due to the default python versions that are
Wade Barnes: package with certain certain OS's. So one of the thoughts was to
Wade Barnes: set up node and plan them to use a virtual python environment so that it's not not as dependent.
Wade Barnes: it's not dependent on the the OS
Wade Barnes: that uses its own. I still think that's a good idea.
Wade Barnes: but that
Wade Barnes: requires work. So
Char Howland: okay.
Wade Barnes: take it off of
Wade Barnes: more.
Wade Barnes: so I think we've personally, I think we should still do that?
Wade Barnes: it's not the point
Wade Barnes: sorry, this one is actually done.
Char Howland: oh.
Wade Barnes: you're an issue.
it's done.
Char Howland: Do you know, if there is an open issue for deployment environments?
Wade Barnes: Good question.
Okay.
Wade Barnes: let's see one. So
Wade Barnes: I think we should add it to node
Wade Barnes: the end.
Char Howland: Okay, cool.
Char Howland: Let's see details on Curve C. And Q.
Wade Barnes: This has been sitting for over a year, and
Wade Barnes: I always answered it.
Wade Barnes: Close it as a stale issue.
Char Howland: Probably I think the person may have
Char Howland: they more noise since then, if they, if they still were curious.
Stephen Curran: yeah.
Wade Barnes: on the closed
Char Howland: cool.
Wade Barnes: So you need to add them in here. So
Stephen Curran: we do, or we don't
Wade Barnes: you?
Wade Barnes: Oh, yeah.
Stephen Curran: assign it to me.
Wade Barnes: Yeah, amazingly enough, we don't have one. Okay.
Stephen Curran: You assign it to me
Wade Barnes: to current
Wade Barnes: as the expertise.
Stephen Curran: That's pretty funny way. What
Stephen Curran: got it?
Char Howland: Question is, check triggers. One audit transaction per ledger.
Stephen Curran: Yeah, I mean, we talked about this one, but I believe we didn't do anything about it, so no, we haven't done anything about it, so keep it, and we leave it
Wade Barnes: this for me
Wade Barnes: to myself.
Char Howland: Cool
Wade Barnes: last one. Problems, rocks to be.
Char Howland: Oh, these are both. Once you just to send to you so
Wade Barnes: interesting.
Char Howland: cool
Wade Barnes: this one should stay open.
Wade Barnes: So what on that one? That is the C, I, C, the issue.
Wade Barnes: Okay.
Char Howland: cool. Well, I think we first 5 or so
Char Howland: we're on one page with issues which is good.
Char Howland: Let's see. And so it sounds like we want to open an issue
Char Howland: on adding virtual deployment environments. I'm gonna yeah. I'm going to do that on the okay. Great.
Bruno Hivert: yeah. Sorry. I'm discovering that. and that. That's definitely a new big question. But I mean, what's the difference between the in the node and in the plan on
Bruno Hivert: repositories? Exactly.
Wade Barnes: Or how did you and Daniel describe the relationship?
Wade Barnes: so any any plenum is sort of the the the main plumbing for for indie node, and then in
it is the
Wade Barnes: where you sort of implement, the
Wade Barnes: the
Wade Barnes: concrete implementations of what's defined in on them.
Stephen Curran: I I think, find them is the is the consensus algorithm. And so those core parts of of the consensus.
Stephen Curran: and then no, I think. implements the you know, things like the processing of requests
Wade Barnes: it passes to plan, and for the consensus part they
Wade Barnes: where? So you would implement new transactions and various things in in node. Okay? And then the support for transactions and generals and plenum.
Bruno Hivert: Okay, okay, so basically plan on is building a package or a library that's used by note. Okay? Thanks.
Char Howland: Yeah.
Char Howland: Agnes, not to put you on the spot. But if if you do have any questions as you're getting started on documentation, feel free to stop anytime to to ask them.
Agnes: Sure, I'm still getting the handle it
Char Howland: absolutely
Char Howland: and discord. The discord channel is is another great place. If one questions come up. So
Char Howland: let's see.
Char Howland: All right. Yeah. So I think we've we have gone through all of the issues on node and plan, and we closed all of the open pull requests on Planum, and there are a few open on node.
Char Howland: but I think, for these were
Char Howland: either we know that they are they need more review or discussion.
Char Howland: so we have talked about all of these. Would it be worth revisiting any of these to see if we can
Char Howland: merge or add specific comments to any of them?
Wade Barnes: Simply.
Char Howland: what was that what I said? Possibly there's just a few
Char Howland: Do we know if if these documentation updates
Char Howland: from
Wade Barnes: no, they haven't moved forward at all?
Char Howland: Okay.
Wade Barnes: had a chance to
Wade Barnes: review those. Or I, I know I haven't.
Char Howland: Okay, cool. So I think, yeah, we can probably
Char Howland: leave all of these since we have talked about them before.
Char Howland: but I think that is, we've certainly gotten these numbers down quite a lot in the past weeks and months. So
Char Howland: great. Let's see, are there other agenda items that anybody would like to bring up on the call?
Char Howland: All right, I hope that was a sufficiently long pause. thanks. Everyone for joining, and
Char Howland: We'll see you all in 2 weeks.
Wade Barnes: Very much.
Char Howland: Thank you. Bye.