Bruce Conrad: Hello, Lance!
Lance Byrd: Hey, Bruce, how are you?
Bruce Conrad: Good! How are you? Good! Good!
Bruce Conrad: What time zone are you in, Lance
Bruce Conrad: Cool?
Lance Byrd: How about you?
Bruce Conrad: Mountain time.
Lance Byrd: Okay.
Lance Byrd: little early for you.
Bruce Conrad: Yeah, yeah. A little bit.
Bruce Conrad: Yeah, I I overslept last week, and I only caught the last half of the meeting.
Lance Byrd: Okay, yeah, Good to have you.
Bruce Conrad: Thank you.
Bruce Conrad: I've invited 3 students to join the meeting about. Their eyes rolled when they heard the time.
Lance Byrd: What a what are you? Are you a teacher?
No, I work with with Phil Wendy, who is supervising a capstone project.
Lance Byrd: Oh, okay.
Bruce Conrad: And i'm helping out with some technical expertise.
Lance Byrd: Great.
Bruce Conrad: and part of that is is attending this meeting. End.
Lance Byrd: Good! Good. What? What the students are Where
Bruce Conrad: and at Brigham Young University. And yeah. Great.
Lance Byrd: very good. It's amazing how many SSI people are from the Utah area.
Bruce Conrad: Yeah. evername, I think, Started started it off to a great extent. I'm not sure if there were precursors to that. That was the first group that shared it with me.
Bruce Conrad: Gotcha. That makes sense
Lance Byrd: right great.
Bruce Conrad: and some of the students he he hired.
Bruce Conrad: many of them are working in the industry. There are some working at in Vco.
Bruce Conrad: a couple of them founded
Lance Byrd: right?
Lance Byrd: Okay, yeah. Those those connections all make sense. Then.
Hakan: Hello. Good morning. How are you?
Hakan: Oh, very good. How are you?
Lance Byrd: Great?
Hakan: Yeah. Just making myself a coffee. But yeah.
Lance Byrd: the the wireless sets. It sounds good. Okay, good. Just setting up our
Lance Byrd: our page here. I guess I can share my screen.
Rodolfo Miranda: Hi, everybody!
Hakan: Hello!
Bruce Conrad: Hello!
Lance Byrd: Hey, Rhoda!
Lance Byrd: We'll be getting started in about 1 min.
Hakan: all right.
Lance Byrd: just trying to clean up all my
Lance Byrd: all my screens here 1 s.
Lance Byrd: 10,
Lance Byrd: good, and then.
Lance Byrd: Now that I'm sharing, I have lost my other view.
Lance Byrd: Come on.
Lance Byrd: chat.
Lance Byrd: Okay, so let's just publish this for now, so we can.
Lance Byrd: Everybody can.
Lance Byrd: Okay, welcome to our Aries. Did come v 2 working group for December the twelfth
Lance Byrd: 2022 good to have everybody.
Lance Byrd: we'll go through some updates here.
Lance Byrd: I just created the page. So yeah, we'll just
Lance Byrd: we just edit it as we go feel free to. Well, I should remind everybody about the antitrust policy for Hyper Ledger and the code of conduct for Hyper ledger.
Lance Byrd: please. if you'd like to add yourself to the attendees list.
Lance Byrd: for today's meeting.
Lance Byrd: I think. Yep.
Lance Byrd: I left some from last week that are here. And
Lance Byrd: Yup, that's the 4 of us. Good.
Lance Byrd: Okay. So I let's see on my end just doing updates real quick. We'll go around
Lance Byrd: and actually, maybe Bruce, Would you like to introduce yourself? I think maybe everybody knows you. But yeah, maybe
Bruce Conrad: maybe go for it. Thank you. Thank you, Lance.
Bruce Conrad: I'm. I don't I if I've met a rhodo and he
Bruce Conrad: I work at Brigham Young University in Provo Utah
Bruce Conrad: and i'm my interest in this
Bruce Conrad: working group is that I'm. Assisting Phil Windley, who has
Bruce Conrad: 3 students implementing. Then Con B. 2
Bruce Conrad: using his pico system
Hakan: so quick, quick, quick question on that. is it being implemented on some areas framework or or another yeah.
Hakan: or another software
Bruce Conrad: it's it's another software Phil Wendy invented
Bruce Conrad: something he calls Picos.
Bruce Conrad: Yes, which are supported by a pico engine implemented in Node Js.
Bruce Conrad: And the students are using the rust library of
Bruce Conrad: to
Bruce Conrad: Bring that up in the pico world.
Rodolfo Miranda: I IoT device it right.
Bruce Conrad: yeah, picos are came out of the IoT world, but they're
Bruce Conrad: They They have broader usage than that
Bruce Conrad: they can be used to implement websites
Bruce Conrad: and
and
Bruce Conrad: each each people can be an agent
Bruce Conrad: we already have Aries agents running did come V one
Bruce Conrad: up up to and including making connections and exchanging basic messages.
Rodolfo Miranda: Hmm. Great.
Rodolfo Miranda: Yeah. I always miss the
Rodolfo Miranda: the sessions on the Iw. Regarding the the picos or something. Yeah, there's there's way too much going on that I double. Yeah.
Lance Byrd: all right. Great? Yeah. Glad to have you, Bruce. And it was cool to meet you at Iw. And yeah.
Lance Byrd: Very good.
Lance Byrd: Okay.
Lance Byrd: Let's see updates on my end. I don't think I did much for specifically for this group over the last week. I did read through the document that
Lance Byrd: that hackon had shared.
Lance Byrd: let's see. We have it here.
Rodolfo Miranda: is the last there's a ha can be from some
Rodolfo Miranda: that may be interesting to to
Lance Byrd: to review today. Yes, good point right. So that is was one of the nice things from this past week. the
Lance Byrd: the
Lance Byrd: The aip. 3 movement is alive and well.
Lance Byrd: let me. I'm just going to search for the the links that I had for that.
Lance Byrd: but yeah, it it it seems like a IP 3 is is going to be a real thing. It's going to be did come be too focused.
Lance Byrd: and yeah, I I would say that that's maybe the most important thing that happened over the last week. But yeah, you guys go ahead and fill in some details, and i'll find some links.
Rodolfo Miranda: I I
Hakan: Oh, this is great. This is from San Current.
Okay.
Rodolfo Miranda: yeah, yeah. On the last meeting eighties meeting last week. he raised that topic. So he on the meeting. He open up this.
Rodolfo Miranda: the document, and I
Rodolfo Miranda: on the fly.
Rodolfo Miranda: So but it but it's something that we need to be completed. It's just what the the
Rodolfo Miranda: keep feeling on the during the meeting.
Lance Byrd: Yeah, this was really cool. it's so great to have Sam helping with the effort. and yeah, he basically what we kind of discussed was that
Lance Byrd: I was concerned. That okay, aip one was was, you know, had had it's it's scope. And then maybe aip 2 that that that scope expanded and I was worried.
Lance Byrd: are we at a point where a aip, 3.0 might be? just too large to be kind of a as-wide interrupt profile. maybe you know, I suggested. maybe we should call it like a IP. did come V 2 even though personally
Lance Byrd: I would love to see Aip 3.0. B. You know that did come V 2 interrupt profile. And and basically Sam and and others base, basically noted. Well, maybe the scope of the IP actually shrinks by making it did come v 2 specific and and
Lance Byrd: it seems that the momentum in in the other agents you know the the work that hockey and his group's doing for occupy. And the pull request that's going through for Afgh right now going through review, and and that the sick pole guys
Lance Byrd: are working on actively.
Lance Byrd: that it seems to be enough momentum across Aries that yeah Ap. 3. What they did come V. 2 focus would would would be quite beneficial to the community. So
Lance Byrd: that was a really great talk. And basically Sam started to produce this table.
Lance Byrd: in order to basically show how did come V. 2 spec begins to replace a bunch of the Rfcs from previous interrupt profiles. And thus, you know, maybe the list is not, as ex not as large as as I would feared.
Lance Byrd: So any thoughts
Rodolfo Miranda: he actually remove it. Start it, copy past the IP 2, and start removing roles.
Rodolfo Miranda: and that's how it does. And the the other main point here is that
Rodolfo Miranda: even in also in in a IP 2 there are some
Rodolfo Miranda: a that are optional, so like the mediator, and and that some on the on the bottom.
Rodolfo Miranda: So we we can do the same like. Put everything as a optional.
Rodolfo Miranda: so you you can comply with the IP 3, but not with with some only in in some part, maybe the main part.
Rodolfo Miranda: But if you are a mediator, you can comply also with the mediator part.
Lance Byrd: Yeah. And I love that. What what do you guys think about having kind of this this optional list
Lance Byrd: that people can can borrow from depending on. you know their requirements.
Hakan: Sorry I was commenting right now. What what do you mean with the optional list.
Lance Byrd: You know we're basic.
Lance Byrd: I think the concept is instead of making it seem that. Oh, you know, if you want to be a IP 3 compliant. you know, here is the the super list, right of everything you could implement right. One of my one of the lessons learned, it seems to me, from the Jff. exercise was that when people start start jumping into did Com. V. 2
Lance Byrd: it can be pretty overwhelming to know. What is it that I absolutely have to implement? And what can we kind of work towards over time? Granted. You know, there it's a spec, and you know we all want to fully comply with the spec. But
Lance Byrd: you know there's some kind of minimal things that you could put. And so Sam was pointing out that even maybe an aip 2, they had a a concept of some optional pieces and so maybe you don't want to implement mediation
Lance Byrd: right off the back, because maybe you're not doing mobile you know development, and and you don't need a mediator. But you know eventually you would would want to adopt that. So
Lance Byrd: I think the concept was. Let's try to make a list. That's kind of you know the core things that that probably everybody is going to need, and then have some optional things that people can pick and choose from. For instance, if they want Indie Base credentials.
Rodolfo Miranda: Yeah, and those those we already on aip 2. So but I but I didn't know that was like optional, so, and they they could like this man with maybe it in the credit.
Rodolfo Miranda: and that is optional. So that was something new for me, too. So it's good.
Lance Byrd: Yeah, I like it. Other thoughts.
Rodolfo Miranda: I'm sorry it's. It's very important to to our project, because it's a very short term project.
Bruce Conrad: and we're not even going to get all of the base requirements done.
Lance Byrd: Yeah.
Lance Byrd: yeah, that's and that that yeah, again, the the Jf thing
Lance Byrd: you know, it was this exercise, and you know they get funding, and you know. So okay, a bunch of people jumped in. and yeah, same thing. It it's supposed to be the short term turnaround of okay, let's show the the this cordial exchange.
Lance Byrd: What's it called? Open badge or something like that
Lance Byrd: credential exchange. And yeah, they they have a limited amount of time, little limited amount of resources. And so you
Lance Byrd: they're not going to be able to implement everything for did come v 2, and they kind of went through Wacky and Wacky Didcom for for credential exchange, and they basically
Lance Byrd: even that they they chose a subset to to implement between themselves so that they could.
Lance Byrd: you know, show trading these credentials or or transferring these credentials to one another. So
Lance Byrd: I think that concept should be very important, and i'd love to kind of capture.
Hmm
Lance Byrd: kind of the core path of of a did come V. 2 implementation of verse
Lance Byrd: kind of all the other things that a a person might support or did come the to implementation might support.
Bruce Conrad: Yes, that sounds very, very interesting.
Bruce Conrad: Can you? provide the link to the Jf. Work of some kind.
Lance Byrd: this this spreadsheet that that i'm trying to build. I have a references, tab, and so I put the Jf. Notes here. There's a link to that.
Lance Byrd: i'll. I'll thank you very much. I I have that. okay, Good. Yeah, great. And yeah.
Lance Byrd: I guess my my disclaimer again, for the spreadsheet is, i'm trying to build it to to help the community. But we can document things. However, we want. I would just like there to be a place that's useful for us to kind of collect this information as we go so we have, you know, a list of implementations, a list of did methods
Lance Byrd: that that are essentially supported by those implementations. And you know, probably you want to support did peer right. But
Lance Byrd: these kinds of things to help interrupt between all these new
Lance Byrd: users essentially of Didcom V. 2
Rodolfo Miranda: So yeah, I'm always open.
Rodolfo Miranda: removing this some protocols, and and they start removing the protocols that are already inside the this. It can be to a specification like the out of one.
Rodolfo Miranda: I think the the trust being the routine protocol on the discover feature. So, though those 4 were removed from the list, but our only because they are on the expect that it's the first role.
Rodolfo Miranda: So I think, in the out. We need to put that the the
Rodolfo Miranda: this is back also includes include those those protocols.
Rodolfo Miranda: Yeah, the the other one really important for hard time, and that is something that we need to Really.
Rodolfo Miranda: They will talk about this. He removed them. I think they they did a change protocol.
Rodolfo Miranda: because some say, okay, this is not actually
Rodolfo Miranda: we need it in the of a IP.
Rodolfo Miranda: because it's more internal on each framework. I think
Rodolfo Miranda: so. But anyway, we we and and the other
Rodolfo Miranda: thing that is, some mention is we are we to? Maybe we should write an like an Rfp.
Rodolfo Miranda: It's not gonna be like a protocol, but more kind of a like a reference, or over the cushion on how we should implement
Rodolfo Miranda: those kind of stuff like you, you you always.
Rodolfo Miranda: I was talking about the connection right how you establish a connection.
Rodolfo Miranda: and even though did it come to
Rodolfo Miranda: kind of start the connection with such a simple
Rodolfo Miranda: message
Rodolfo Miranda: by receiving a simple message on the framework? You need to handle that right?
Rodolfo Miranda: And this is something that we need to agree on. How
Rodolfo Miranda: should be done.
Lance Byrd: and so do we see that
Lance Byrd: as part of the
Lance Byrd: Rfc. For they come v one, and they come v 2. The transition from did come be one to did come v 2, or do you see that as
Rodolfo Miranda: maybe not not for the transitions like a a general way of
Rodolfo Miranda: yeah. How should a connection?
Rodolfo Miranda: How to? We establish right?
Rodolfo Miranda: Just we see the message, and that's a connection or not. Yes, we need something extra
Rodolfo Miranda: like replying to that message on.
Rodolfo Miranda: and that's the end of the establishing a connection that that's the thing, I think.
Rodolfo Miranda: if need to, to. We we saw because they they did this change. We saw that right
Rodolfo Miranda: and that way. It's not so clear
Rodolfo Miranda: I we should probably.
Alex: Hey, guys Sorry I Gen: Late a little bit
Alex: yeah. I was stuck on my code, and I forgot about the meeting. but I guess like
Alex: I guess, Rodo, you said that we should try to figure out a way to generalize connection.
Alex: I
Alex: I don't think we should try to do it at the group level.
Alex: in my opinion, like that kind of depends on like a message per message level
Alex: from that perspective, and I think that, like each like Wallet implementer, should try to figure out a way of like how to
Alex: for handle messages.
Alex: I had like a message at handler class
Alex: since they come to to me, since more like it's a
Alex: one way
Alex: protocol like it's it doesn't like really support it
Alex: like sessions.
Alex: I mean, it does have the concept of thread so like you can kind of like use
Alex: a thread. Id as like a connection Id concept
Alex: but yeah, like.
Alex: do you guys think this is like a good like?
Alex: I mean, I agree that everybody is going to have to use the concept of connections. I'm not sure
Alex: we should standardize it
Alex: outside of thecom, I guess.
Yeah.
Alex: What do you think
Rodolfo Miranda: don't know? Jump on? No, yeah, yeah. I I I agree. Don't misunderstand the eyes, but maybe a reference, because it's an in this issue, and somehow I agree on on, because if you receive a message.
Rodolfo Miranda: you're okay. You You can now establish a connection. But the other part is still not because
Alex: yeah, that yeah, no, you're the other part to right? Right? Right? Right. The party. You know that you received the message right? Correct, like like the your part doesn't even know that, like whether you read the message or not, so I think the like, I think, did come itself, is designed in such a way that it's purposely done that way
Alex: to not have like a pair wise
Alex: like a fair West connection. But yeah, I mean like.
Alex: So I guess i'm trying to figure out. What are we trying to do with Aip 3? And to me it sounds like we're trying to figure out like a basic set of protocols
Alex: that allows to have some minimum communication between
Alex: to did come agents. and I guess since it doesn't.
Alex: I have to do much with areas like in my mind they make sense to call like a basic. They come profile.
Alex: but yeah.
Alex: I think I think I guess from the perspective it does make sense to standardize connections.
Alex: If we look at it that way. So okay, yeah.
Rodolfo Miranda: But but I know that Hong Kong was working really hard on that. One day
Rodolfo Miranda: on the I got by, so
Alex: I guess, like I'm saying like the way I can, I will handle connections will be slightly different than a. Of J.
Alex: Where no connection
Alex: or do they handle connection the same way right now.
Rodolfo Miranda: but that doesn't matter how how they can, but how how it they flow will work, maybe to to
Rodolfo Miranda: to acknowledge the connection somehow.
I see
Rodolfo Miranda: if you send a message, you you, because maybe you send a message to to another one
Rodolfo Miranda: from one out of one. And then you need to. We see that we played back to make sure that the okay, both both parties now are talking.
Rodolfo Miranda: We have it.
Rodolfo Miranda: Yeah, an agreed connection
me, too.
Rodolfo Miranda: You You may or may not mean that. But
anyway, I think that's
Alex: yeah, like established like a handshake like, okay, hey? I'm: I have this. Yeah, I think, like we need to figure out like the like a connection and
pretty cool.
Hakan: Yeah.
Hakan: I think there were. I'm: sorry.
Lance Byrd: Yeah, go ahead, Hawk.
Hakan: No, yeah. I I totally agree with the handshake protocol, because this is, I think, mentioned in did come as well it could be like an out of pens, or like a did exchange, I think, in terms of handshake proc for Aries frameworks at least.
Alex: Yeah, Exactly. I think we should figure out a way like agent like discovered themselves like between one another and like I think that's
Alex: the protocol I created.
Alex: That's that's what i'm thinking as well.
Rodolfo Miranda: and that can be an Rfp. And you Rfp: because we have this change, for this can be one, and that can be really really simple. Or this comes with you.
Lance Byrd: Okay, interesting. Alex. Just so you're we're codified. I'm: Sorry, Bruce, that's that is in here he is. working with students. in Utah who are doing like a minimal implementation
Lance Byrd: of did com V. 2. They have a, you know, a very fairly narrow window
Lance Byrd: to work on it. And I told him that that has a similarities to kind of the Jf. stuff that that you have been working on with Brian and others. and so he's he's got the link to the Jff document that you guys have
Lance Byrd: but I still think maybe the transfer of information between his group and your group. for how to, kinda, you know. Get up and running. I I I would just love for that to be reflected somewhere.
Lance Byrd: so yeah, just
Lance Byrd: the the kind of pain points that you guys went through, or you know what's the the the quickest path to to, you know, transferring credentials and inspired by Wacky, but maybe not fully implementing wacky and not fully implementing, did convey to. So I just wanted to make you aware of his work, and
Lance Byrd: I think I think you guys can benefit from each other. Maybe.
Alex: Hi, Bruce! Nice to meet you.
Bruce Conrad: Nice to meet you, Alex. Yes, that would be. That would be great.
Bruce Conrad: In fact, our students are even going to go so far as exchanging verify verifiable credentials.
Bruce Conrad: Their work will be done when they've managed to connect
Bruce Conrad: 2 picos using did Comb V 2.
Alex: Okay, Got it? So okay.
Alex: So you guys trying to implement your own like the come libraries from scratch
Bruce Conrad: starting with sick for the for the crypto.
Rodolfo Miranda: I I I I think that I think they pickco is gonna be they. They're gonna have a like a an endpoint, or they're gonna need a mediator.
Bruce Conrad: each. Each each pica will be will be an agent with endpoint.
Rodolfo Miranda: Okay, Good. Maybe that that's gonna be in a close, like in a private network, or just a live on on the work. Yes, every pico when it's created is there's a cloud agent.
Rodolfo Miranda: Okay, Good.
Alex: Yeah, definitely. That's a that's a sometime, and we can chat.
Bruce Conrad: Yeah, that would be great.
Bruce Conrad: if you would send me an email to get started, Alex. That would be
Bruce Conrad: fabulous.
Alex: can you show me your email? Can you text me your email? And then I can email you back
Bruce Conrad: it's in the meeting notes at the top.
Alex: Oh, got it? I don't know. Yeah, I'll I'll get it from the from there.
Alex: I think.
Bruce Conrad: Okay, thanks. That works
Lance Byrd: okay. Very good benefit from.
Bruce Conrad: Okay, so so Lance given given their goal. I think that would be interesting if
Bruce Conrad: if the aip 3 was even further subdivided.
Bruce Conrad: in the
Bruce Conrad: in the overall diagram for
Bruce Conrad: sovereign identity.
Bruce Conrad: The the layer diagram that has
Bruce Conrad: verifiable data repositories at the at level, one
Bruce Conrad: and agents connecting at level 2
Bruce Conrad: credential issuance and proof concepts at Level 3 and governance at level 4
Bruce Conrad: and
Bruce Conrad: so part of being an Aries agent is being able to connect
Bruce Conrad: and send messages.
Bruce Conrad: you know, starting with basic message, and then custom protocols.
Bruce Conrad: and that's level. 2 of the diagram I referred to. Sorry I couldn't find that I looked for it.
Bruce Conrad: and
Bruce Conrad: issuing credentials and proof requests, and so forth. Our level 2. Yeah, that's the one
Bruce Conrad: layer 3. So I think it would be interesting if a IP 3 had a part that same for layer 2
Bruce Conrad: this is what you need
Bruce Conrad: to have.
Bruce Conrad: and for later 3 you need to add on these things.
Lance Byrd: Yes, interesting. And I think
Lance Byrd: haven't I seen recently. A.
Lance Byrd: Maybe it was a. Did come v 2
Lance Byrd: break down
Lance Byrd: of this technology stack. But with did come V. 2.
Lance Byrd: Does anybody remember that? I feel like in the last? I'll say 3 weeks, maybe month.
Lance Byrd: and maybe it was like a W.
Alex: Yeah, I think German Reid. He has a
Alex: It has like a like an image where you have layer 2,
Alex: they come and layer 3. You have like discount protocols.
Alex: Yes, you're right. That was the only difference that that that's kind of like where they come up
Alex: it goes to. And then he was comparing that to like. Oh, I DC. It's also like a layer 3 protocol.
Alex: for, like exchanging credentials.
Bruce Conrad: Was that an Iw session
Bruce Conrad: that I missed? I missed most of them. Yeah, isn't isn't that the the torture of it.
Lance Byrd: okay, I will
Lance Byrd: try to hunt that down.
Lance Byrd: Hmm.
Lance Byrd: Yes, give me a moment and yeah, I guess feel free to.
Lance Byrd: Well, what else do we want to talk about? I I guess. Let's let's
Lance Byrd: a
Lance Byrd: do
Lance Byrd: we? Yeah, how did we get to?
Lance Byrd: Let's see? Yeah, we introduced to Bruce to
Lance Byrd: Alex. Before that we were talking about hackon's work?
Lance Byrd: Yes, and with connections right?
Rodolfo Miranda: we're getting that done least once. What i'm gonna do is like
Rodolfo Miranda: this list here. updating. Yeah, then
Rodolfo Miranda: the protocols to the some to the bars on 3 like they issue credentials that they walk. You may be moving to bathroom 3.
Rodolfo Miranda: I'm going to review the go.
Rodolfo Miranda: What code?
Rodolfo Miranda: least acknowledged.
Rodolfo Miranda: Yeah. Some like like simple updating to to the latest protocols.
Rodolfo Miranda: and maybe that also for the mediator. the one on the on the bottom.
Rodolfo Miranda: I'm going to have the the latest. Yeah.
Rodolfo Miranda: And then we probably should work on on this
Rodolfo Miranda: connection, reference or whatever.
Lance Byrd: Yeah, that is, everybody. Are we able to? What do we have here? There's notes here.
Lance Byrd: but this is okay. This is fairly recent. I haven't gone through these notes.
Lance Byrd: so it looks like at the very least people are able to post.
Oh, that's good.
Hakan: Yeah, you can comment on it's basically with, choose wherever you want to do it and make your right click.
Rodolfo Miranda: Hmm. That's good. Good.
Lance Byrd: Okay.
Lance Byrd: right? So we kind of talked about
Lance Byrd: this.
Hakan: Yeah.
Hakan: right? But I still keep it there to put it at least as a note with the Rfc. As mentioned, because these are Rfcs that are already there on the areas. And since this is like kind of an area into a purpose of profile. 3 point. Oh, I think it's worth mentioning.
Lance Byrd: Right?
Lance Byrd: Okay? Great.
Lance Byrd: Everybody agrees with that. Yes.
yes.
Lance Byrd: yeah, good.
Lance Byrd: All right. Cool
Lance Byrd: let's see something you mentioned there. Roto
Lance Byrd: regarding the goal. Codes
Lance Byrd: right. We talked about
Lance Byrd: right discovery protocol. I think we discussed this last week a little bit a, and I cash. I meant to this week do some this past week, do some research to
Lance Byrd: better understand ways that did come. V. 2 agents can
Lance Byrd: discover more about each other than just their application Protocols.
Lance Byrd: this concept that you know. Okay, if you're not going to implement every part of Didcom.
Lance Byrd: How do you tell
Lance Byrd: another agent that? Well, these are the parts of did come that that I've implemented? These are the did methods that I support. These are the, you know. Maybe maybe there's some kind of crypto negotiations that you can do. but kind of how do you do that right? Because.
Lance Byrd: you know, at some point you get to the point where you know. How do you even message each other at all, or or trade information at all.
Lance Byrd: so yeah, that that's super fuzzy for me. If anybody spend any time thinking about that, i'd love to hear ideas.
Lance Byrd: but that's something that I I I still would like to.
Lance Byrd: Eventually you have a have a good breakdown of, and and maybe using
Lance Byrd: the trust over IP model
Lance Byrd: to kind of highlight what can be discovered, or maybe even you know, what are the nuances? Because this is kind of what this spreadsheet
Lance Byrd: supposed to be doing is showing you.
Lance Byrd: you know. Here are the considerations we'll just call them considerations for now the layer. One considerations that you need to do did come, for instance, V. 2, the the layer, 2 considerations, the layer, 3 considerations. And then how you know, how does? How do 2 agents that that may not have implemented everything.
Lance Byrd: you know.
Lance Byrd: How did I, even? How do you discover? Why, you couldn't interrupt, but it I posted like the link to the discover feature protocol inside the the income. Oh, yes. So if you go there.
Rodolfo Miranda: yeah, go go down a little bit.
Rodolfo Miranda: and there's a message. Yeah. So here you see that the discovery is like a query.
Rodolfo Miranda: and and you query by a feature type.
Rodolfo Miranda: and you can provide it like a matching. Also, if you want.
Rodolfo Miranda: So in this spec all, I think they only mentioned
Rodolfo Miranda: feature, type, protocol on feature, tile goal on the type of mentioned. But you can. It's a sensible, so you can
Rodolfo Miranda: include other feature type. As you're wrong, you can create one, maybe a feature tie, walkypex, or whatever. So for a credential form, although.
Rodolfo Miranda: and and that's I think it's the way to to use the discount feature.
Lance Byrd: and and Sam seem to agree with that as well.
Lance Byrd: when
Lance Byrd: maybe
Lance Byrd: I i'm just trying to think of timing. At what point do we want to as a group kind of walk through this.
Lance Byrd: you know. Read up on it, be aware of it, and then kind of walk through. You know what could be some an inch initial values that we'd put in here.
Lance Byrd: that would be more helpful for 2 agents.
Lance Byrd: to yeah. Essentially discover their ability to to have, you know, to complete. There did come
Lance Byrd: of
Lance Byrd: operations with one another.
Lance Byrd: any thoughts on that, or also if if this seems like something way in the future that we you know, shouldn't really be tackling now i'm i'm fine with that as well.
Rodolfo Miranda: I I don't know. But the the other way you were mentioned like the what he picks that you can.
Rodolfo Miranda: The attachments can be in different formats like the
Rodolfo Miranda: so I don't know if that's
Rodolfo Miranda: can be something.
Rodolfo Miranda: all of them.
Lance Byrd: Yeah, maybe a good starting point.
Lance Byrd: Okay.
Bruce Conrad: I I don't know if this is of interest. But even earlier in Section 2.1,
Bruce Conrad: the media types.
Bruce Conrad: the the Pico engine went as a Web server, which is part of what it does
Bruce Conrad: it doesn't currently.
Bruce Conrad: except messages with any of those headers.
Bruce Conrad: And so one of the first things the students will have to do is modify it so that it will accept it will at least accept a message
Bruce Conrad: at all.
Bruce Conrad: Okay, yeah, I I I think I think if we assume http as the transport.
Bruce Conrad: I think Http includes queries for that kind of thing. But I don't know for sure.
Bruce Conrad: so that might be an initial starting point. You have an endpoint
Bruce Conrad: that purports to be in Aries agent. Well.
Bruce Conrad: what what media types does it
Bruce Conrad: support?
Bruce Conrad: you said you, said Aries agent. But did did you mean did company to agent? Or
Bruce Conrad: if it purports to be one
Bruce Conrad: then the then you could send an Http request
Bruce Conrad: asking.
Bruce Conrad: Does it support any of these media types?
Bruce Conrad: If it doesn't, then we can determine that it's not actually, it did come v 2 agent
Bruce Conrad: And if it doesn't support them all, then we at least know where to where to begin probing.
Lance Byrd: Yeah.
yeah.
Rodolfo Miranda: that the promise that they discovered. Feature is after you're ready.
Rodolfo Miranda: That is true. So they they pick the pickle. He said it to receive the message, but not expecting that
Rodolfo Miranda: type of
Rodolfo Miranda: and
Rodolfo Miranda: the the tip of the on the heather is if they receive the visa.
Bruce Conrad: Yeah, the the
Bruce Conrad: the the pico engine out of the box. just expects.
Bruce Conrad: expects Http requests with a media type.
Bruce Conrad: I think it includes a a. Json
Bruce Conrad: so it's it's it's very general.
Rodolfo Miranda: But if if we receive that it will fail, or will that accept the message?
Bruce Conrad: currently the way it's written. If it receives a message with one of those media types, it just ignores it.
Rodolfo Miranda: Okay, it's not the message. Okay. And so so that's the first thing the students will be doing will be to
Bruce Conrad: The open open the
Bruce Conrad: the Pico engine as the Http server to those media types.
Rodolfo Miranda: Okay.
Bruce Conrad: Yeah. In in the trust over IP tech stack, I assume. Did come V 2 enters in only on level 2
Bruce Conrad: does it? Does it interact with the level one at all?
Rodolfo Miranda: Not needed, maybe to be solved like a. Did that. The
Bruce Conrad: okay Only for a good resolution.
Rodolfo Miranda: I think so
Lance Byrd: that makes sense. Yeah. And which is still a big deal right? I mean, even in the Jf. Stuff Alex. Was kind of like. Oh, you know, they're using a did web. And you know this other person was just trying to do a did key, and i'm doing a did peer right? I mean.
Bruce Conrad: Yeah.
Bruce Conrad: I see what you mean. Yeah, there's a lot going on there, too.
Lance Byrd: I mean it would. It would almost be nice to just rank the did methods like you know, of the people out there, you know, if if you know, here's the did methods that are most used, or something like that. And here's the reasons why pros and cons. And
Bruce Conrad: yeah, that would be very useful.
Lance Byrd: Yeah.
Lance Byrd: And yeah. So maybe I mean, maybe this is
Lance Byrd: a better way to
Lance Byrd: connect the community.
Lance Byrd: I hadn't really been coming at it from from the Trust over by trust Trust over IP, you know, layers.
Lance Byrd: But I yeah, I feel like maybe our work
Lance Byrd: and documenting the pain points, and you know, most most use did methods and things like that. It's probably better in this kind of
Lance Byrd: view. What what do you guys think?
Bruce Conrad: I I think so. I I guess. Obviously our Our students are basically going to be just in layer to using using periods or even key dids.
Lance Byrd: Yeah, fair enough.
Bruce Conrad: and and they will be done when they've established
Bruce Conrad: connections
Bruce Conrad: at the at layer 2 between between
Bruce Conrad: the P. Among picos.
Bruce Conrad: It would be it would be nice if they had time to interoperate they did spend some time looking at the Aries test harness and didn't get very far.
Bruce Conrad: But but there the tasks feel when they set them wasn't to interoperate with
Bruce Conrad: agents of with a did con v. 2 of of any other kind
Bruce Conrad: just among themselves.
Lance Byrd: Yeah.
Lance Byrd: yeah, that makes sense.
Lance Byrd: and
Lance Byrd: but well.
Lance Byrd: yeah, I mean that that totally makes sense.
Lance Byrd: and then
Lance Byrd: because interoperability is a lot harder. Okay, Good.
Lance Byrd: Okay, we've got about 15 min left.
Lance Byrd: I I i'll definitely send a message to Drummond to track down
Lance Byrd: his the start of his diagram.
Rodolfo Miranda: Well on the on them, you know they they so it
Rodolfo Miranda: working group release the final document of the architecture. I think that is part of that diagram, but it really
Rodolfo Miranda: define all the all the details within each layer.
Lance Byrd: Okay, but that didn't show did it. It wasn't in the context of did com V. 2 right
Rodolfo Miranda: well the inside that the this reference they define.
Rodolfo Miranda: or they they tell about, did convict you?
Rodolfo Miranda: that's a reference. All I think they manage on it.
Rodolfo Miranda: can we, or some
Rodolfo Miranda: I see.
Rodolfo Miranda: Come on.
Rodolfo Miranda: Yeah.
Lance Byrd: Gotcha.
Lance Byrd: Okay.
Lance Byrd: I will. Let's see. You're saying that's the trust over. IP:
Lance Byrd: What do they call that the architecture? Stat? Or
Rodolfo Miranda: Yeah, I think so. Architecture, stack
Hakan: or reference model
Hakan: reference, architecture. Some like that.
Lance Byrd: Oh, maybe that's literally on that page that I was
Lance Byrd: model
Lance Byrd: started with a vision.
Lance Byrd: My paper?
Lance Byrd: No, maybe this other page here Technical architecture.
Rodolfo Miranda: I got it. It's it's on the now. It's on on a
Rodolfo Miranda: the link.
Lance Byrd: You say, github you Man: the yeah, there we go.
Rodolfo Miranda: this one. I don't know how it windows.
Rodolfo Miranda: Yeah, but probably rendering somewhere. I don't know that would work.
Lance Byrd: Okay, and it just links to this back. Well, okay, we'll find we'll find more stuff and
Lance Byrd: try to
Lance Byrd: connect
Lance Byrd: just that point of view, since you know it's it's gaining a lot of momentum.
Lance Byrd: all right. so that I I feel like that was a lot of
Lance Byrd: good discussion.
Lance Byrd: How can do? Do? Is there any kind of updates from your team and the work that you're doing? I I love to get back to that
Lance Byrd: just because it's
Lance Byrd: you know it's rooted in implementation.
Hakan: So from the implementation point of view, Judith started working on out of pens Protocol message structure fitting for did Con V 2
Hakan: Spec: basically that's to to establish connection and set a V 2 flag. And the connection Id
Hakan: from the point of
Hakan: Yeah, I guess some more discussion. Strategic discussions tomorrow with the Aka Park meeting, and then we're going to talk about a bit about
Hakan: which encryption, envelope or message envelope library we want to use for a cup I like there is one there's just been already implemented for. Ask I wallet there's like a python library. There's a rust library
Hakan: to see what the community at this Akapi community is thinking about using as libraries.
Lance Byrd: libraries for encryption. You said, yeah. Libraries for message envelope. Okay?
Lance Byrd: And you said, as far as our python implementation, I think it's from Daniel Haman.
Hakan: or Rust's implementation. Okay.
Lance Byrd: good. I think i'll be able to make it to that. But i'll have to double check that there is something good
Lance Byrd: meetings.
Lance Byrd: all right, great.
Rodolfo Miranda: I actually also once I just post
Rodolfo Miranda: the links to the rendered person. So
is that
Lance Byrd: okay? So this is what they presented.
Lance Byrd: An Iw.
Lance Byrd: at least 3 digital exchange protocols.
Lance Byrd: Okay.
Lance Byrd: Yeah.
Lance Byrd: we'll try to find.
Lance Byrd: Try to find that diagram. That
Lance Byrd: the Drummond
head.
Lance Byrd: All right, cool.
Lance Byrd: I'll put that in the notes as well.
Lance Byrd: and you had one other spec.
Rodolfo Miranda: I think it is the same in
Lance Byrd: Gotcha.
Lance Byrd: All right. Good.
Lance Byrd: Okay. Anything else. we should maybe talk really quickly about our meetings
Lance Byrd: since we're coming up to the holiday times. it is the 12 today.
Lance Byrd: So I would think we can s probably sneak in one more meeting, and then is everybody okay with us canceling until the New Year?
Lance Byrd: Let me just look at the
Lance Byrd: the calendar, or, if you know, Obviously, if people want to meet, they can.
Lance Byrd: Looks like if we waited till
Rodolfo Miranda: you say can cancel the 26.
Rodolfo Miranda: I'm the second of January.
Hakan: Okay, I mean, i'm just taking the Christmas week off. Otherwise i'll be available.
Lance Byrd: Okay, that would, if we took the yeah, if we did, the 26 and second off. Then that would put us back
Lance Byrd: together on the ninth.
Rodolfo Miranda: Sounds good.
Lance Byrd: Yeah, okay, okay, Good. I will. I think i'll just yeah, I think I can just message the calendar owner, and he can
Lance Byrd: and i'll post that as well in our discord, which I guess i'll post it in the discord literally asking him to remove those
Lance Byrd: Okay, Great
Lance Byrd: Anything else. I mean, we I think we covered a lot of ground.
Lance Byrd: I think it it would be good to maybe come back.
Lance Byrd: Yeah, just yeah, let's just continue to think of ways of
Lance Byrd: discovering
Lance Byrd: interoperability or or or implementation of did company, too. so that 2 agents. Can. You know, kind of negotiate how they're gonna
Lance Byrd: going to be able to interoperate? and we'll consider the Trust over. IP stack more. And then Obviously, we'll be following the pull requests and and discussions within the Yakapug and the Aries javascript meeting.
Lance Byrd: which I haven't been able to attend. I've been having. There's a customer meeting that's literally right, right. During that I used to go religiously to the
Lance Byrd: I don't want to call them the Afgh meetings, but the area's, javascript meetings. I think, Alex, you were able to attend the last.
Lance Byrd: There iss javascript meeting, right?
Lance Byrd: Are you there?
Alex: Yeah, yeah, I usually go to those.
Alex: yeah Aerial Did the demo of his his wallet
Alex: or last week?
Alex: Oh.
Alex: so you guys should check out the recording at the very end.
Alex: But he had like a similar chat interface
Alex: to 2 h. yeah.
Alex: I like it.
Lance Byrd: Okay, yeah, I should. I definitely want to see that great
Lance Byrd: Okay, and and did also the sick of of folks, Were they there? And that was, Did they discuss the Pr.
Alex: Yeah. So there was like a little bit of discussion of like what the timeline of the Pr. Was going to be. It wasn't really discussion about the Pr. Itself.
Alex: and they
Alex: like. Unfortunately, t-mo wasn't there, so they didn't really go through any code, and they were saying how it might take a couple of months for the code to get merge for the company to in a
Alex: at least, that was kind of like what Mike was saying
Alex: from a northern block.
Lance Byrd: Okay.
Lance Byrd: yeah, fair enough.
Alex: That's
Alex: That was kinda like what was that last? But i'm hoping that
Alex: It's just because of the holidays and and what not.
Alex: But yeah, we'll see how that goes. I'll keep you guys posted
Lance Byrd: Gotcha.
Lance Byrd: hey? We have Dimitri here to Dimitri. You want to say something
Lance Byrd: you're muted. If you're trying to speak.
Lance Byrd: I see your hand up
Lance Byrd: still muted. If you're trying to speak to me.
Lance Byrd: Okay? Well.
Lance Byrd: yeah, feel free to type, I guess.
Lance Byrd: Okay, let's see. 5 min left. We can. We can end now unless anyone else.
Lance Byrd: Dmitri says, Hello, hello and help me.
Lance Byrd: Matri, I don't know if I can.
Lance Byrd: Okay, anything else that we want to cover. That's a lot
Lance Byrd: okay.
Lance Byrd: very good. It's always great to see you guys I appreciate this very much.
Lance Byrd: I don't know I I do want to.
Lance Byrd: honestly, i'm I don't have. I haven't had enough time to really solidify kind of the documentation and everything that we've been doing for this other than what we have in our meeting notes.
Lance Byrd: But I do think
Lance Byrd: yeah, some some a a more solid way to kind of document. All of the activities and different pain points is still a big goal of mine. I just
Lance Byrd: Haven't had time to really
Lance Byrd: really put that together. I think eventually it will come together. But I I think we're capturing a lot of important ideas. That will help that. So
Lance Byrd: it's really good.
Lance Byrd: All right.
Lance Byrd: Thank you. All
Lance Byrd: appreciate you. Yeah, we'll meet next week.
Bruce Conrad: Thank you.