This is
Sorry. Good.
morning or good afternoon.
Through by here.
Get started.
Just before we start, I wanted to check, is there anyone who join you.
This is my boss Patil I know
I would like to
Just introduce yourself, that would be great.
Sure. So my name is Bob up until the company's name is patient informatics
A Small Business Innovation Research grant applications are what we're putting in process are interested in the peer group is mostly value based care models, see what's out there and see what you guys are working on.
To join you.
Okay, so I think we can get started, I just want to quickly.
Add a plug regarding the editors policy.
I will be question. Anyone who joins the group should review the policy to ensure that we comply with the the Linux Foundation insurance policy.
kicking it I know Jeff, I was
Not able to have the join the meeting for last two. I know it got canceled, but from the previous meeting.
Wherein I think I left five, we were just having the discussion, China, you were, you were kind of taking that we need to completion. You shouldn't have to provide an update, where we left off that will be good.
All right, I'm trying to remember because I wasn't available last week, and it was long time ago. At this point, I think we were just
We just continue to
To look and
Discuss one of the models. I don't remember which model, we were talking about that we covered two weeks ago.
The models for frameworks for selecting
We were
Yeah.
And
We were discussing various
I think decision points. Right. Well, that's correct.
And I don't remember a
Couple people who weren't
There and
So we didn't cover everything in that and we ran out of time as it was anyway so that
There's a couple
Areas did never got covered
Unless
They were covered last week or something.
Well, actually, last week.
That I didn't get didn't miss anything.
About
Rich call or
Joining
You
Is rich on the call, Tony.
I don't see any of them either of them listed
I think they had a couple of features for them cover.
I think we can we can at least go you know move forward with the discussion, though.
I will try to send out a note. Unfortunately, I'm still traveling so I
Guess to kind of be could be can send a note to everyone who were supposed strong the meeting. So I just do that.
In a possibility. This week, however, I know we were discussing the decision chamber.
Pardon me.
I would say decision points.
Like the multiple writers
I know Jessica covered hedge money because all data integrity.
I'm just thinking, what would be the best use of time today.
Either we can cover some of the ones that
You know, I know I'm not prepared to talk about only than just stopping. So even have a general discussion or we can talk about
You know, once you come back and talk
To me about these topics.
That you want to pick up
Any conditions.
In the absence of suggestions and not wanting to go over work that that other people did. I've
I've been collecting frameworks. This is Jeff. I've been collecting frameworks anytime I find them. And I've got a bunch more that we could kind of quickly look at and critique.
As well. I BELIEVE THERE MIGHT somebody might have submitted one from Oxford, which I didn't find particularly appealing.
I don't know if anyone's had any
Jump. Was it. I mean, most people that you
Want to share with the group. I think that might be worthwhile exercise.
Yeah, not yeah i mean
They all seem
In my view, most of the ones I've seen. I haven't had time to go through them all because they because I keep finding new ones, but most of them seem to be
Built to justify a decision that's already been made for a particular use case, rather than to really do a true assessment of whether or not
something should be done with blockchain.
They're very self serving and even though they've been issued by some prestigious institutions. Let's as an expert in the in the World Economic Forum. I find them really very amateurish. Not that mine is any better, but at least it was a straw man to get started.
Well,
I mean overtime.
Critique I did develop a critique of this Oxford
Model, but I don't actually have a copy of that model to show I just
Get that and I'll put it in the deck. When I do get it. No. Add the critique to it.
You do you want to just go over or share your boards on the model or
Just a minute. Hi masters pulsar that
That Oxford model is not available for distribution, because I'm still checking with the Oxford, folks.
It was used in their online course.
blockchain.
Strategy.
And I am using it.
I'm also working on the enterprise. The theorem alliance side, trying to figure out how to help how to help industry groups with their
With their use cases building use cases. So
That that that it's not going to be available wholesale
Fair enough. Okay.
I'm sorry.
George
TP
Also, yes.
Okay.
And my, my goal is because I'm connected with
Ron Resnick who's the executive director is now DEF CON beating up with
Brian we're trying to find some sort of
Mechanism that were the two organizations that now have an alliance are able to work together on some projects. And that hasn't been finalized. I know there was a press release, but
What I've noticed is a lot of special interest groups are struggling to find use cases and and these industry domain experts don't understand what have blockchain is different from a traditional database so
Now I'm
Working to build out sort of a cheat sheet and then at a very high level using multiple templates that are already out there, consolidating that
traction with distributing that
I think that's something that I will be we're targeting with this workbook as a first step to read and if I'm wrong. I think that that's exactly what we're targeting as well.
Yeah, everything that
The
That
The challenge is, I am the chairman of the AI and Internet of Things, and how it works, how blockchain can decentralize or enable those solutions.
At EA, I'm a member of the I've been part of hyper ledger, I propose that
Working with hyper ledger, year and a half ago. Didn't also went to be what what what I'm seeing is, they're just
People don't need to get trained technically they need to get they need to understand when and when to use blockchain so
I'm going to propose and I have proposed to Ron Resnick the executive director that we can invite people from hyper ledger to participate in
Groups. Or maybe there's one group where everybody can just join in. I don't know the details of that but
You know, I want to be a facilitator.
And, you know, build the bridge.
So I'm just trying to figure out this woman is there.
You know, just, you're just beginning step back
You're describing about don't understand the blockchain at the difference between trying to leverage blockchain for a solution rather than, you know,
Using a simple database that's the, that's the first question regarding plans, even though we have fears of Groovy started with that Kendrick question who only to refine it further, as we, you know, kind of define it for this show. You see how do you see
You know, kind of is possible leveraging this group for the same right
And and i think or do you not see that
No, no, no. I think the more people
That are focused and understand how to build specification. I was involved with the enterprise. The theorem alliance.
Client technical specification version 2.0 that was just released at DEF CON. And so the process. It was done on GitHub and the process of
Having many people contribute to to develop a standard or specification. In this case, it was for client interoperability.
And Ethereum has clients many clients and the point of this specification is to design interoperability. The reason I'm saying that is that
What what needs to happen. We need to have a core group or a critical mass of people that are not technical, but don't fall into
getting too technical and understanding what an outsider needs to understand a get trained on so the courses. I've taken from edX on Hyper ledger extremely technical
And it really it doesn't need to be technical. And so the first thing that a group like this needs to decide.
You know that this is a process, it's working, it's working progress and that there needs to be deliverables and end users need to come in and say, I understand this. This is working well. So it's it's it's iterative the process.
And I have a number of people.
That I'm meeting with
That are interested in in developing this. And the reason I'm attending here is because I saw that you also have its Jeff's specifications or selection criteria and I, and there are others.
Out there and we need to pick and choose the best from
Each
And I don't know if the first question is,
I don't know what the first what the first question is whether, you know, how do you differentiate from a traditional database. I think it's a complex
Decision tree.
So, yeah.
How do you go about
Yeah, I definitely agree.
With the you know the industry layer. Also, you know, of blockchain in a in a financial industry may not be the same as in insurance industry may not be seen in as in
Supply chain. So different aspects of block, block chain will solve different problems with respect to the industry side. So, it is absolutely the complex
You know model to address, if you will. And you know, that's one thing that we are also going to you know debate within this group, how should we come up with one a generic model and then ability to customize that for us, Linda. Yes, yes.
Who think that we're trying to do right
And I think instead of starting at the details. I think we have to
Set it up at a very high level because that I can fairly quickly tell you that when a relational database structure.
Will work versus a blockchain in and describing that at that level of abstraction and then building down is key. So we're, we're doing a proof of concept. We're developing that the way I look at this is that the end user, the executive
That don't know about blockchain just need to be guided and it needs to be compared to the competing technology. I read an article 85% of the blockchain proof of concepts actually do not need blockchain. So there's already people being misguided when to use blockchain so
Start at the very top, and I think it's almost like role playing explaining to each other. What's the difference between a relational database and doing this and if you see a
blockchain as a kind of
Database
How is it different.
Yeah.
I think what exactly that everything is moving. And that's what we're continuing NATO as well. So this signal bogner any on from Richard pony.
I have a core group of people. I have communicated with Ron and and proposed that I believe
If we can overcome the differences between the way your hyper ledger operates, which is to develop code and the way that he operates, which is to develop specifications. We both have special interest groups, we will have working groups with technical specification group.
But really what I see there's just the industry groups are struggling
And everybody has their version of how to assess whether a use case is going to be appropriate. And I think use case, it's too early to deal with the use cases, you have to build the upper layer to and develop sort of a decision support tool.
So,
I'm holding back until I hear from Ron, he's going to have a conversation with Brian to flesh out what this alliance that was
Advertised is going to look like.
And
Okay, but
That doesn't keep us because enterprise. The theorem alliance, you have to be a member to participate in the meetings, unless you are a speaker.
Unless you're invited to be a speaker.
It's completely different with
Hyper ledger. Anybody can participate and contribute
So,
Oh no, I think it
Helps if we don't, if we sort of have a neutral sort of neutral. Neutral position about this blockchain protocol versus this blockchain protocol and overcome that, sort of, you know, I'm on this side versus that side and focus on the the the industry.
Executives that need to make be made feel comfortable comfortable with this new technology stack.
So what were you. How are you, you know, I look at this as a as a product developing a product
And he's got version.
Yes. What we were just to give you an idea what we have been doing is
We started in this this little group, we looked at various use cases in their industry, we thought let's start with white paper before we start the White Paper.
Let's talk about when we use blockchain because this question is will come up again and again.
And that's what we were tied to kind of getting to the fundamentals as when to use blockchain and when to use blockchain.
To compare perspective as well. So the second question we are going to answer we add stage we are putting the first question.
When to use blockchain and a decision tree for that. That's where we are right now and they are we great of add shared the responsibility of covering one or two aspects by each person in
shows some topics that we covered some tightening and that's where I'm expecting or, you know, the assignment Tony amateur
fighters are joined here.
In this meeting, so
autopsies until it discussion here to to conclusion that kind of put something on paper that Dr. Hill taken and
Then, you know, then it will further customize that or if there's an executive area.
That that what questions they will have to call you should work for that answer their questions. Right. Absolutely right. So,
Number one, is there a a centralized document and Google where we
We can all
Contribute content and manage the content. This is content ID to intense. That's the first thing I did for my
Group.
And I can share you I can share with you.
The content platform.
That
I've shown it to the Ron Resnick the executive director and in order to get any traction around this you you have to manage the content. Okay. You can't build something without
Capturing the content so
Let me share with you what I have, because it is it is it is open source foundation neutral.
You shared your slide or just slides. I've incorporated those slides I have
I have researched and documented.
Similar tools that are a selection selection blockchain selection checklist and all put it in one place.
Okay.
Okay, so
If
If I can share
I'm
I'd be happy to say, Okay, if you want to participate.
Let's use my Google
Slides and Google discussions.
Let me share what I have
Share share
Here we go.
Okay. Can you see the slide.
Anybody see what I've got up on the screen.
Or we can do
Okay. All right.
The reason I'm bringing this up is because it's
It's a way to get everybody focused. It's, it's, I, you know, you get nowhere. If you're floating around some some
slide deck, so everything has to be centralized and there has to be a process to update this document I worked on this on the GitHub. I think it's a little too early to put this on GitHub. But I see this as a process to develop
The way you develop the software or any kind of product design thinking, you have to be agile and you have to control the process. So I've pulled together the
The summary of the Oxford blockchains strategy framework which which Jeff has already critiqued. OK. So the Google slide, although it has the ability to do it allows you to do.
Comments and it has chat.
It's, it's not good enough. It's not good to document things. So what I've done is I've created another Google document where
Where the, the two critiques Jeff's critique of the Oxford comments and
Somebody critiqued Jeff's okay now.
Can you see the, the, the Google Doc.
I am sorry I'm not able to see it. I am all for some reason. That's okay. I mean, we can see
That the
Point is, we just with this feedback.
That's enough. We need to digest and we need to sort of step back and say, if you bring let's say an executive in they may be an IT person or they may be a business analyst.
Maybe your software engineer.
What's going to make blockchain.
Deployments successful is if they're if they have the right sort of framework to think about what problems can be solved. So
Right. The. So this needs to be molded over this critique and
Because the because the blockchain. The Oxford blockchain. It's very simple. We had close to 1000 executives that had to at the end of seven weeks come up with a roadmap.
Not an easy task. It was not multiple choice, but they actually had to write a business plan of sorts. And so it had to be very practical so
These are the six questions. And once you once the way they thought about this Oxford thought about thought about this. Once you get yes to any of these six. That's what it says here.
Then you asked the questions about the protocol layer network layer and application layer.
OK, so
The
I think the discussion what what I would like to see us to or my group or our group do is pretend do kind of role playing. In other words, you have somebody that knows database.
Understands database. The architecture of the database relational record locking centralized and
We compare that blockchain to a database because most people understand that.
And
You know what, what's the key difference between a relational database.
And the blockchain.
And
If we capture that that could be a starting point.
Can it can anybody and I've really thought about this and it took me a while to understand that. But you know what is the core difference between those two technologies.
And it isn't really, is there a predictable repeatable process that lends itself well to automation. I think that's too high.
Of a description.
But it can anybody, anybody take a stab at what's the difference that the main differences between a just a relational database and
block chain database.
Well, this is Jeff. One of the things I would
Say way.
The fact that in a blockchain.
The records are crypto graphically linked so that it becomes tamper evident if it's been corrupted.
Database. That's not the case.
Uh huh.
Okay, and I think
The other property that I see the
The
Ability, because I think that that coupled with B or D.
On the non tampering capability gives a whole different meaning to what is being written in in material and how it can be leveraged
As well as other evidence of something that you want to get
That is immutability is immutability and what that means to a, let's say, just an ordinary business analyst or system architect that does immutability
That that is a new concept at the way blockchain is talking about immutability okay so saying are do you need your records and the transactions that are being recorded in your database. Do they need to be immutable.
I sell
I don't think I
Even I'd be back.
To do.
You had been together for example me I have to, you know,
I just give a simple example that I'm probably being disturbed and recently or
You know, have a criminal record that we want in in as
Immutable for, you know, information, which means it cannot be tampered it cannot be changed and what's written is immutable. So this is three that you want to recall is is what you know property requirement. Right.
So my question to you is,
What about all the criminal records that are currently being stored. Is anybody having problems with the government or whoever stores criminal record information. So maybe it's not the right example you're giving but immutability
In a database is not, it's not impossible to accomplish without a blockchain.
Permission and access rights.
You know that the right people are allowed.
I think, yeah, I think there's a difference between
A permission database and public database that has an inevitability of permission. You are already controlling what is being written.
And hence, you know, you can control the immutability of the record. But when it comes to a public information that is being written by multiple writers across the board, then the image immutability as a whole different meaning.
Right, so this subtle difference that you know if you're already controlling everything what you are going to be writing can be good on what you're going to be deleting capital told it should be. But in a public scenario. It's a whole different
It yeah and and public is is the operative forward because
Public meaning that it's it's not a consortium or private permission.
Yeah, I'll just give you an example of a very tough financial example, but it can be, you know, today is, it is. I give you an unsecured loan night.
I have to have a legal document involve a third party to it. But if I am doing it publicly and it's in an immutable record which means
It can be used as a proof to say that yes I you know let you some money and we record it publicly in the ledger in a distributed fashion, you agree to it. You took it. I agree to it I lend you.
The money and it's an unsecured loan day, but there is a there is a public true for that.
That's really good immutability comes into whichever right
He's giving us a hypothetical example just to kind of, you know, make sense of what we're talking word immutability when it comes to public
By making you can do whatever you want with the database. There is no question about it. Yeah.
So. So you are saying that if you architect relational database properly, you can accomplish.
What you could with a blockchain.
Absolutely, yeah.
I think that's where we have various challenge in this group of a lot of use cases that we are talking about is
Really questioning where this can be achieved with database. What is that we're trying to achieve it, and they were here, this whole discussion came up
That let's be very clear. When do you want to use blockchain when it is going to be useful. And, you know, and that's where this whole discussion spawned off because
Of that use case, we're trying to bring up seems to be at this
I know
Yeah, I understand. So I think we have to iterate through this and and get clarity, how we think about this.
Because, as Jeff said the immutability happens with a specific type of mechanism cryptographic hash hash is that are embedded in the in the in the in the transactions. So adding in usability without getting too technical, because you don't want to, you know, if the end users or the
The business industry, you start telling them what immutability is encrypted traffic, you're going to lose them. So
Yeah, let
You will and and really what what I'd like to see is that there is this
End user friendly.
Exercise to think and walk through this and and that's not going to happen easily if you take a look at these these six question from Oxford. The sixth question is, Is there value in an immutable record. Okay.
Make
Can you get
It but but it is the sixth question, and I suspect they asked that question last because you have to do some other thinking
For
The five but
I'm not saying that this really worked because I can't
Tell you how confused. Some of the executives were in the Oxford blockchain because I read a lot of papers roadmaps and
And know your they just didn't understand.
Her
So,
But, but I think if this industry. Besides, you know, the technical specifications, the standards of interoperability that's coming out. I think this is something
That that these kind of strategy Selection strategies is something we have to keep coming back with and refining and capturing that information.
So immutability
That is different from it. I guess the question would be, how is it. How's the immutability different from relational database.
Yep, yep. So I think just wanted to pause here, you're pretty well minutes so I just wondered if
I think we had, you know, for, for various reasons, you do the attendance and all last two meetings, you are not able to
You know, have I wanted this structure to take this time to structure for the next few meetings so I can kind of send out of don't revive the discussion around this George. I'm in
The Autumn having discussions. Absolutely. And that's something that we are working on as well. If there is a either you or talk or some announcement came. It came in and they just trying to figure out how if it makes sense or you
Know, work with this group to kind of further help us refine and if there are some images. Absolutely. I think that would be great.
But nonetheless, I just wanted to take this time to kind of restructure to make sure that you are able to proceed and you know generation delusions from this world group to the community. Yeah.
Yes.
I'll fallen with however you guys move forward with this and hopefully we can structure.
A way to capture this information and refine it
Okay.
Given to others. I'm just wanting to hear your comments on
You know, I want to make sure that we're making progress. And there are some deliverables that we're generating. I know we
Started with discussion and then you had a pause there but nonetheless. Do you guys agree that we should kind of take it to completion in next couple meetings and then start putting it on paper and have a, you know, centralized documented, we can work on
Yeah, I, I would definitely like to finish what we started working on this is a trooper. So we were working through the decision flow chart that Jeff, I think you had right
And then if we go
Yeah yeah
I think we should finish discussing it in the meetings and then put it up for
Collaborative feedback and see if we can turn it into a framework that we ourselves can then use to apply for some of their use cases that we were
Going
Through earlier.
Okay.
Jeff any thought
I'm thinking, I will send every cent that node with the responsibilities and require
You know, whoever to the responsibility to come back and bring it to closure and if they cannot, for some reason, if they are stuck for some reason.
They really can re, re assign those responsibilities and move on. So we can actually get to the completion of the discussion. And then you start putting something on paper.
Well, I agree. I'd like to continue moving forward. I am wondering if
With the with Tony enriches absence, it might be worth assigning other people to do that. And if we end up with two opinions, so much the better. But better to opinions than none in case they miss a subsequent
Me, I am
Let's do this is think of since we just have you know 15 minutes left. I'm just thinking, I will try to send out a quick reminder for everyone to kind of
Come back and then I would also suggest
I would request written and Tony to respond back. I know Steve also to one of the items I don't know whether it was covered last week or not, but it gets kind of recently.
Status. These were six things on the list. And here are the people responsible. These have been completed and if you have not completed and you do not plan to just let us know.
And if you, if anyone within this group at this point in time period that they can pick up one of those items. So let's discuss those next week. And, you know, start processing, you know, forward.
Why don't we want
Among the people on the call. If we have takers for some of these I would suggest that we sign them up today while we're on the line.
And it is a worst thing that could happen.
To people with a response.
That's
Not a problem.
If this is Joe, I'm not exactly sure what items you have
Would be willing to work on something.
Okay, we'll go back up.
To the first
Slide who's ever
What was on the moon.
I have a candy. Let's look at slides will be six. Though it
Slide six will show you the where they fall. Okay.
Okay.
Go ahead and say which things are open.
I'm sorry I Jeff, I have the list in front of me I can quickly summarize usually better anyone takers, we can go from the swiping many writers
It was on me I covered that the in the previous meeting, then it was incentives, which Tony was supposed to cover edgy Marine, I believe, Jeff, you covered in the last few, if I remember, yes.
And data integrity. I don't know whether you were able to get to it last time or not. Yes, I did.
Okay, and then
The
Parties that I believe rich was covering
Um, I don't think that was covered for tampering. It was on me. It has not been covered yet attack.
Because
I believe I don't know whether that was covered or not. And then recourse that was with tune. So I believe we have
Um,
So you said parties.
Right.
Yes.
All right.
So, and is this slide deck available somewhere.
Absent the first three
Slides that
The rest of it's posted
So I would suggest if anyone wants to take on riches or or tunings
So,
Which ones are open so parties and
Incentives
Attack incentives or diverging incentives.
Yeah.
Okay.
I think both
Yeah, I am.
I can take on diverging incentives.
I will miss
Next week's meeting, though.
Since I will be a distributed help
Okay, what does
What
What does that mean diverging
To incentives.
And the players that the stakeholders in the in the solution have diverging incentives.
So there might be, you know, if they all have the same. And if they all have converging incentives, there's less likelihood you would want to go to blockchain because no one's going to corrupt the data.
If you have diverging incentives, there's a reason that you might want to try to alter the data in your favor.
The what we're trying to do is ask the, what should be the guiding question.
Well, if
done correctly.
Concept of leveraging incentives and
How that would suggest that we want to want to consider blockchain or we don't need to consider blockchain. And so just asking the question diverging incentives.
Suggest blockchain might be a candidate.
But it's, you might want to ask several more questions to pin it down even further, you know, maybe is the value
Of
corrupting the data.
You know sufficiently high, that someone would likely corrupt it
Well, any, any application that is brings value by automation.
The answer is going to be. Can you think of any application where
Somebody wouldn't want to corrupt or
distort the data on that database.
Yes.
Okay.
All right, the donor milk use case, no one seemed to be interested in trying to corrupt the data.
Everyone wanted to get donor milk.
Moving through the system, which is why I thought it was a bad use case. They had no issues of anyone trying to
change anything.
What is the difference between that in the attack incentive mean isn't that part of the
Pack.
Possibly
You know when I thought this up my, I don't remember all of my
Thoughts at the time.
I had a different
Different view at that
Time, but I don't remember what it was.
I think
The difference between the beverage and incentives and attack because divergent incentives are still related to the parties involved in the chain.
Outside the chain as well.
That's right. That's
Right.
There you go.
That is the difference
It's a matter of diverging incentives as among the participants attack incentives is third parties who aren't members of the blockchain who might have an incentive to attack it.
Right, okay.
So just, I'm just cautious of time. We just have a few more minutes. So everyone else can pick up any of these items. I think we have incentives or we have
Parties attack.
And recourse these four topics that someone needs to pick up
Right, I thought
That was such
A robust
Diverging in general. Yeah.
Yeah, and I said I trusted parties. So, okay, and I mean I can give a shot at attack incentives at the same time.
Okay, yeah, I don't know if that's too much.
To take on or not, but it went down. Yeah.
curia
Out of curiosity, I know we're short on time but
It would be interesting to just quickly walk through these points and see if asking them in a simple language actually
Yields of
Yes or no.
Response
Well, what we did what we concluded when I presented this the first time, which I think was a very valid conclusion is that
These were kind of high level concepts and and and while I tried to make this a single threaded chain we realized that each of these questions embodied more complexity, which is what we're now trying to break down.
So in slide seven and eight where I decompose two of those, you see that
They ended up with different questions. It wasn't a simple answer.
I'm curious, George, what
Do you mean by user friendly questions.
Are the questions not simple enough, is that
Oh, no, no.
It's just a diverging incentives.
I i'm still processing the information that it's a, you know, I understand diverging incentives, but that that is, you know, a complex way of saying
You know diverging incentives. You mean that each party that is going to use the application.
has different motivations to use the application and that motivation could lead them to
Cheat
Yeah, I mean, basically.
Yep, that's correct.
Tell
Me the code, the actual questions are in the speaker notes for that slide. I just had to fit them into the into the parallel. Yes. I see. Hmm.
And just, you know, ask yourself if you put, if you put somebody doesn't know the blockchain but may know databases you know if he walks through these questions are they going to walk away with, you know, okay, I get it, I can now go and find a use case where this is appropriate.
And I think if if that first shot somebody saying, I get it, I can now go find a use case. And then drill down further. If we don't provide that initial step to not scare them away with words like hegemony. I love that word is one of my favorite
But
And I know that you have it further refined. But if we think about the user interface, you know, we're building a user interface where the user
Has to be guided through this process.
That that's that is
Is that we
Use the right kind of language.
So one thing I wanted
To ask since I missed that first meeting where you
Present to Jeff is the user of this framework going to be an executive
We didn't define who the user would be, it was presumed that we would that solution developers would use this to decide. Given a set of requirements. Is it appropriate to use blockchain or not.
Excellent.
All right, well that's good to know. Solution developers.
So,
What I'd like to try is I'm going to study this again. I'm going to review Oxford and
I'm going to, I think, juxtaposing this
To our relation database so relational databases easy understand which is there's there's one client. There's one server running that servers. The central it record locks it has the engine that does integrity record locking and anything outside of that.
Is is
You know, part of the application where they use us are given permission to access that database. I think the way I would the elevator pitch. I would have to immediately compared to either an Excel spreadsheet or a relational database and and start
You know the other thing is when you when you start a blockchain network.
The key concept is that you have many nodes that replicate the data.
And those nodes are peer to peer communication. So, it is decentralized
So that concept.
That differentiates it from
A relational database.
Is not
Difficult to understand
But it is core
Core because you can distribute a relational database in
Multiple locations and have multiple
copies of it, just the same.
Yeah, but then you have big data kind of Hadoop type of distributed processing.
Okay, yeah.
But, but
I
Understand myself. Yeah.
You're absolutely right.
You can distribute the databases.
Across multiple machines.
Yeah.
I think the key in blockchain.
The blockchain.
Distribution is that each party has a full copy of the transaction ledger.
But that's not necessary.
That's
Not necessarily true.
It isn't true.
The only reason you'd want a replicated.
Across authentic.
All the data across multiple nodes is if the network.
Requirements are that you know X number of nodes.
Just so that it. There's no single point of failure.
Well, the consensus building nodes have to have a copy of it.
Isn't that true
Yes, that's true.
No.
Not every node.
Just something I think that any amount of time. I just want to make sure that the clarity on what
The next on the list for next week. So I think you took the setups and you're taking the attack the photo Park City party.
Any anyone here to pick the course.
Okay, what I did was I will send over mortification with these responsibilities of asking
Obviously, or I don't know to be tuning in, because they have been added to the end of the meeting as well. So I will request them, but we will be prepared. Just in case and
We will have our
Picture.
Yes.
Yes, and Alicia, I will be missing next week's meeting.
Next week,
Right.
I will be at distributed health conference.
Sorry, Your voice is breaking up.
As a question.
Next Tuesday I'm just thinking
Join. We have a quorum actually part
Of that
Let me tell
Me about the Commission and if you cannot join next week. That's fine.
We'll continue the discussion, whoever can join us for this topic and then come back so
Yeah, I just wanted to say I really liked
The discussion we were having to at the end where we were honestly debating.
I think you'd be bad, we can clarify.
A lot of this for ourselves and for other people.
Yeah, let me just chime in. And I think we need to manage our expectations were sort of a structured debate, we need to be able to walk away and say we don't have the answers because
You know,
As soon as we raise an issue. And you think we have a differentiating factor.
Somebody chimes in and says, Well, that's not actually the case in, especially in light of the fact that you have third generation protocols now coming out. So to to arrive at the essence is going to be
It's going to be a journey.
So I agree. And you know, that's what I am worried about
You know, I don't want this to become an intellectual exercise, it would be good to put speech on paper and we start doing that George, I think the structural committee chair or other people in the discussion points. So yes, which is what I'm ready.
Yeah.
Okay, I think we have abandoned. Next week we will cover trending topics. And I think that should be the trigger for let's start putting on paper, our pieces, what we covered and we can synthesize that paper and refined that collectively
Okay.
And where are we have continuing the discussion.
If we have questions are
This the rocket chat. Right. Is anybody using that. Is there a channel setup for this group.
I think
For me, I pay more attention to the email that ok
Ok emails.
So are you the hashtag that you want to put under for keeping it short it for the periods of new I would definitely add the hashtag as long as we can do that I think should be able to cover this
Okay.
All right, so which two
Did you say and what is it the assignment. Exactly. You use. Did you say that I
Am supposed to come back.
With some
Follow up info. Oh, he be topics that we are supposed to cover. I will put the topic and the name and kind of
And the second name in front of it. For example, if Russia parties was going to be covered by rich and put his name and your name, George any bridges able to join next week you'll discover that, and you can share your box you please order your
Topic.
I think there's some confusion.
It's Joe, I thought I was the one that volunteered.
Okay, I thought it was trusted
Yeah that's fine in
Now, I mean,
I'm happy to share, but I just didn't want to like that wasn't clear. It wasn't clear that
I thought it was my name. Yeah, let's
Let's yeah let's just be clear, I think.
custard parties going to be covering is or George Joe
Joe Okay and then attack on is going to be covered by
George until
I think you said, Joe, also.
What I volunteer for both of the
Right, but
Yeah.
I think Joe
Do what what I'd like to do
Is develop a matrix that compares it to
To a relational database and really have that
So the first level of understanding by
Contrast
Through your work. What about as well. Next week are you
George. Right. Yes.
I will work on some I will work on that and
Have a sort of a decision tree.
You know relation or a matrix that says here's a traditional relational database.
Maybe even go into some of these
distributed databases such as Hadoop and the benefits of Hadoop, it's more for
Processing big
Big data.
Across multiple nodes, but so it's not
But I will include that.
Because more people know dupe type of structure than they they know blockchain data structure.
So I'll put that together.
Okay.
Okay. I mean, if you look
Out for the next week.
I will send out an email as well just to ensure that
You're not for next week. But I'm wondering
If
I would be interested in coming up a
Framework for executives on
Whether they should fund the blockchain.
Project or not in their companies.
What those questions would look like.
Not yet.
Those are
Yeah.
And and both those are
We may
Be have already drilled down too.
Far with these questions, and I think that's the level, I would like to approach it is executives can you put these questions in front
Of an executive
And make them feel like
Not that they have the final answer, but they did. They can at least have a framework to think about it.
And you have to have some place that they're familiar with everybody knows relational databases, so
Just wanted without exactly my thought processes as we, as Jeff talked about the solution designers, once we answer these or once we have the right question, it will be easier to, kind of, you know, project for executives and and you know going to
realign that to to the executives. I think that would be a good exercise for later as well. Yeah, I'll tell you this.
I, I have not been able to convince my husband who manages
X, y, you should even look at blockchain.
Spend even
Reading about this stuff.
Yeah. Another suggestion is
Another way to approach this is besides to comparing it to traditional relational database is to actually find a use case in supply chain value chain.
Where you can demonstrate that this would not work with building it in a traditional relational database.
I will also work on that because I know there are use cases out there were, there are blockchains that have been deployed where it's very obvious.
That a blog that you get
So I'll have the relational database.
Comparison, and then I'll come with sort of a checklist saying
Here's the checklist and
This is a working blockchain application and
See if you can poke a hole in it. Why it why a relational database would work. I think the the the ultimate document for executives has to be almost interactive, you have to put it into the context, you have to get them engaged to think about it. Look at the old versus the new
So that kind of setup is what I'm looking for a relationship relational database comparison and then take a look at a really good use case that anybody can understand and use that as the
You know, you know, can you show us that a relational database would would do the same.
Be able to accomplish the same thing. So I'll come. I'll come next week with something like that, or at least the beginning to that.
Awesome.
I think we have a plan for next week we'll
Just proceed with that and we'll
Go from there. Alright, cool.
Alright, thank you.
Thank you very much. Thank you.