Sean Bohan (Hyperledger): hey good morning Tracy.
Sean Bohan (Hyperledger): Tracy we have three folks who said they're not going to make it today, so the total tasc count.
Sean Bohan (Hyperledger): will be whatever shows up out of a lead.
Sean Bohan (Hyperledger): Okay Angelo a room and grace have said they can make it.
yep.
Tracy Kuhrt: Thanks.
Tracy Kuhrt: Alright, welcome everyone to the.
Tracy Kuhrt: hyper ledger technical steering committee call, as you are probably all aware, two things that we must abide by the first one is the antitrust policy notice that is currently being displayed on the screen and the second is the code of conduct, which is linked in our agenda.
Tracy Kuhrt: So agenda today, we have our standard announcement, the hyper ledger that weekly developer newsletter goes out each Friday.
Tracy Kuhrt: If you have something that you would like to reach all of the different hyper ledger developers, please consider leaving a comment on the link that is linked in the agenda on that wiki page.
Tracy Kuhrt: Are there other announcements that anybody would like to make.
Tracy Kuhrt: Alright, so no announcements so currently reports, we had to quarterly reports come in actually there's three quarterly reports that came in, but the next the real one stuck to two metrics that we look at it until next week.
Tracy Kuhrt: The area's in in the reports came in, I did not see anything specific coming up on those particular.
Tracy Kuhrt: Project reports, although I do see that there's still some empty check marks that people haven't had a chance to review them yet so.
Tracy Kuhrt: I think we'll just kind of take the opportunity to ask during this call if there's any questions or comments anybody, like to make regarding the areas are in the report.
Tracy Kuhrt: Okay, I see no hands, nobody come off mute I take that as a no.
Tracy Kuhrt: So please, if you haven't had a chance to review those yet, please take the opportunity to do that and the, as I mentioned the 01 has come in already for us to take a look at Thank you to the real high team for getting that in, and we will take a look at that next week.
Tracy Kuhrt: When everybody has had an opportunity to to take a look at that.
Tracy Kuhrt: Just fyi we have the devil report that's also due next week and the other two reports that are listed here we're going to actually be talking about blow, so we will get to those discussions here shortly.
Tracy Kuhrt: Any questions at this point about the quarterly reports.
Tracy Kuhrt: Okay, good um So the first item that we have is a couple of decisions, the first one is the default maintainer activity policy that then i'll update it for us, based on our discussion last week, I have seen that there are.
Tracy Kuhrt: Six yeses check marks plus their nose is seven, and I think complex, you also commented, which makes that eight approvals.
Tracy Kuhrt: In the actual PR and.
Tracy Kuhrt: Then i'll see you cannot.
Danno Ferrin: yeah one day they haven't put in that became an actor opens up.
Danno Ferrin: Was there a request to clarify.
Danno Ferrin: Who sends the.
Danno Ferrin: PR to.
Danno Ferrin: build us to move people to America status, and I want to change that to say it's the tasc or whoever the tasc chair designates um I think I mentioned that in chat do you want that, as a separate PR we roll that in with this one with a voice vote to approve that clarification.
Tracy Kuhrt: I think i'm fine with the rolling it in I.
Tracy Kuhrt: don't get any problems with that.
Tracy Kuhrt: Since I think we're gonna do a voice foot here anyway anybody have any objections to then i'll making that change.
Danno Ferrin: The verbs and good in our any tasc member of hyper ledger staff may file the pull request.
Tracy Kuhrt: Okay.
Tracy Kuhrt: Any objections to that particular change during in.
Tracy Kuhrt: Other than what is already there and then voted on.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): Please let's not have another PR just for.
The.
Danno Ferrin: Right.
Tracy Kuhrt: Good good all right so expect you to make that change do we feel like we need a formal vote here, or do we feel like the we've got the majority of people who have voted and maybe we haven't I guess that what did I put eight right.
Ry Jones: I don't count.
Tracy Kuhrt: yeah I think as a.
Tracy Kuhrt: As a yes, so what is obviously above majority so i'm going to assume unless anybody has any objections to that we will.
Tracy Kuhrt: Go ahead and allow Ghana, to make that change in burgesses.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: I have a question.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: As to I mean just.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: For my knowledge as to what is the timeframe that is considered inactive before you.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: Remove the maintainer.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: Like right permissions for the maintainer.
Danno Ferrin: was three months, six months.
Danno Ferrin: of activity that's written into the policy.
Danno Ferrin: A calm before there was no policy there was just writing other projects to do it.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: Every six months okay that's all those wanted to thank you.
Tracy Kuhrt: Okay, any just last call any objections to dental merging listen.
Tracy Kuhrt: All right, no, you have to go ahead to make that change and emerging in.
Tracy Kuhrt: The next item is also a decision.
Tracy Kuhrt: To move hyper ledger bro to an end of life state, so, as you may recall back at the beginning of the year, we had a discussion.
Tracy Kuhrt: With silas and.
Tracy Kuhrt: Casey promote X about hyper ledger borough at that point they want it to move it to a dormant state.
Tracy Kuhrt: Since hyper ledger broken up as leading a project report you I did reach out to Casey and silas about this and asked them if they planned on coming back to contribute to this we're not.
Tracy Kuhrt: In and they did say that they were not planning on supporting borough going forward so as you can see PR has been created issue was created for us to discuss.
Tracy Kuhrt: As of this morning, I saw that both Sean and Sean approved it and silas merged this pull request to archive borough but I did want to have this kind of formal discussion here informal decision that we will move hyper ledger borough to end of life stage um.
Tracy Kuhrt: Any discussion that we should have before we move towards a vote.
Tracy Kuhrt: Yet no.
Danno Ferrin: I read in the real hot report that came in the last night when I couldn't sleep.
Danno Ferrin: That they were one of their major points was they got rocks db working with borough So my question is, are you know what projects depend on bro.
Danno Ferrin: And what are their plans going forward, I mean since, since all the maintainer is approved the archiving and shutting down the project I don't think there's any reason to not lose your well, but I think it's something we need to see how the other projects are going to deal with it.
well.
Jim Zhang: yeah thanks Tracy in the same vein, I vaguely remember.
Jim Zhang: The borough team we're doing work.
Jim Zhang: With the sawtooth lake team on the new transaction family with psychologies don't know if we checked with the salt lake team about this if there's any cross project dependencies.
Tracy Kuhrt: Yes, it's true and I know.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): yeah I mean it's very much in the same line again because, so I think I reported the earlier this year that I attended a call from the team and.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): They were not aware of the time we had just moved borough to dormant status, and they were talking about how they were using bureau and I told them I said Oh, by the way, are you aware.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): And so, at least, you know they've been warned that there was a situation that they needed to worry about, but I agree with that Oh, we need to figure out and I guess gmm in the same facility is our dependencies like this.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): I imagine they need to be aware that this is now being archived I agree we shouldn't stop that, for that matter, because it is nobody to maintain it anyway.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): And, but practically speaking, it means that each one of you know of these projects has to make a decision to either take over, whatever the US from the borough project and make it follow their project or stop using it right.
Tracy Kuhrt: yeah so I can I can come up on the sawtooth one because I do recall that when this initially happened and I think you brought that the 01 up in conversation on the TC call that we had reached out to start to let them also know that they were.
Tracy Kuhrt: That we were that the project manager dornan state right and I can't find it currently in my chat, but I do recall them responding back and saying that's okay We actually had for what we need it into sawtooth and we've actually dedicated that anyway.
Tracy Kuhrt: So that's what I recall from the side to side of the House, if I can find that at some point I will.
Tracy Kuhrt: Put the link to that in in our chat but.
Tracy Kuhrt: I as far as the real ha.
Tracy Kuhrt: Do we have anybody on the real ha project that is here today.
Ry Jones: So I talked.
Ry Jones: That did exactly what I didn't want to do so, I will remove that, so I am on telegram with or haha and I had a conversation with Sarah and.
Ry Jones: I don't remember in sobs name.
Ry Jones: And this is what they had to say so.
Ry Jones: they're aware.
Tracy Kuhrt: Okay.
Tracy Kuhrt: appreciate that update right.
Tracy Kuhrt: Okay, any other discussion or concerns and at this point.
Tracy Kuhrt: All right, do we have a motion to.
Tracy Kuhrt: End of LIFE I religion bro.
Peter Somogyvari: motion.
Tracy Kuhrt: we're.
Tracy Kuhrt: Here we have a second and then.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): I can see, and it.
Nathan George: Just something quickly to add to the motion, we should probably thank the borough maintainer.
Nathan George: For all their effort in the Community of a borough was a pretty significant project for us in terms of helping us stay close to the theory and community for quite a long time, so you know I don't know if that's something we can add to the resolution, but it seems appropriate.
Tracy Kuhrt: yeah definitely agree and I think there was some really great collaboration, when I actually first doing the Linux foundation as a hyper ledger Community architect and.
Tracy Kuhrt: With the the rural community and sawtooth and then further on with the fabric community and bringing kind of the vm to.
Tracy Kuhrt: hyper ledger as a whole, and then to these projects individually, so I think there was a lot of good good stuff that came out of hyper ledger bro so appreciate you bringing that up anything alright, so I think we have a motion and a second.
Tracy Kuhrt: Is there.
Tracy Kuhrt: A I actually right normally let you run a vote can just register anybody opposed to nobody.
Tracy Kuhrt: ever seen.
Ry Jones: yeah and I will try to do it in the right or.
Ry Jones: Does anyone opposed the motion before the technical steering committee to move borough to end of life status.
Ry Jones: Does anyone abstain from voting on us.
Ry Jones: All in favor say Aye.
Tracy Kuhrt: Aye.
Ry Jones: Okay i'm not gonna count, but by voice vote motion passes.
Tracy Kuhrt: Alright, thanks right for that.
Tracy Kuhrt: Alright, so the next item of discussion is an email that to us regarding the future state of hyper ledger explorer on, we need to I.
Tracy Kuhrt: would like to hand the floor over to you to take the QC through that discussion, and what it is that you're asking.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: I sure glad to do that, as you all know, the GCC has been the proponent and maintainer of hyper ledger explorer for the longest time and we.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: were very, very active for a few years and then within our organization things move around, so we had fewer contributors from inside, but we did.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: keep on having need OPS and try to increase our contributor levels, you know get more people involved and did quite a few of those up until last year.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: With david's help we did a couple more where we showcase explorer and we start to the Community for more maintainer support and.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: Also, as you all know that we had applied to get out of incubation several twice, I think.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: In the past few years, the only thing that we missed out on was the number of contributors, we were That was the only missing factor everything else was good.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: Definitely, a lot of folks are using explorer looking at the number of downloads on the docker hub, and the number of stars on the actual github.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: Definitely there's there's a lot of folks were using it so definitely useful for folks but unfortunately the only two remaining mentors from etc and Fujitsu.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: Are pulled with other responsibilities, so we are looking for other mainers to take on hyper ledger explore to the next stage so definitely do not want it to die, knowing that so many folks are using it.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: So the question I raced to David boswell was like what can we do, and he put me in touch with IBM rod.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: And it looks like there is a fabric console and hyper ledger lab so we had a few chats with him, and there are some synergies here that that takes export to one level above where you look at the.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: Side where it's a read only repository you know you're looking at what's going on in the blockchain you slice and dice data using explorer.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: At the same time, from the administrative side you could do things with explorer that fabric console offers so those two together would make a wonderful product that would definitely be.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: welcomed by the Community, but after a few talks, it looks like that is not going to happen so from the IBM side, we were all ready to go with it.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: So now we're back to square one, trying to find out how do we get moment pinner so several things come to my mind.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: One is like, how do we appeal to the Community like we have done meetups we have asked for more contributors.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: But i'm not sure the community knows we have looking actively for actual maintainer so if Community knows about it Maybe someone would come forward.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: One of the folks I reached out to who had expressed interest is alone and he's from the hyper ledger chapter in India and he is talking to his.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: I guess a management to find out if that is doable while i'm waiting on that I had also reached out via email and Peter approached me also and he had a wonderful suggestion that maybe.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: That some useful parts could be absorbed in cactus cactus looks like is the next level of explorer which is blockchain agnostic, and that is.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: That was also originally the aim of explorer expert, but we started out with fabric, and so I think something could be done there that's option number two.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: So I leave it open to everybody to help help us decide what should we do next, as far as explorer.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: I mean if if everybody agrees that the acid, it will can't find maintenance Africa, you know we've tried we'd reach out to the Community and.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: Then it could possibly be absorbed in characters or you know it could just be archived and no more further development in explorer but definitely on the DC side we don't have any more folks that we could you know, lack of resources and so wanting us to pull out of it.
Tracy Kuhrt: So yeah.
Tracy Kuhrt: Thanks thanks for that, I think that was a really good explanation of the history of trying to get mean cleaners and kind of one of the projects that right now, unless you raised, your hand.
Kamlesh Nagware: yeah so yeah so basically.
Kamlesh Nagware: I run in my said, I think, as a division, they get.
Kamlesh Nagware: So.
Kamlesh Nagware: Good so disco discuss about the.
Kamlesh Nagware: explorer future and kind of talk to the Community, even though the detailing corporation they're in our weekly call and ask them like if they can take interest or someone can take responsibility to become a mentor there is opportunity the.
Kamlesh Nagware: iPad.
Kamlesh Nagware: So then, when we are trying, as a Community level, and I think in India.
Kamlesh Nagware: couple of organization keep joining our regular weekly meetings so when I think our room now to talk to anything I think we've planned some kind of meetups to collaborate within the operation console and.
Kamlesh Nagware: Nothing happy to help for the perspective.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: yeah, but that is i'm not sure if you're aware of the latest development in that respect is IBM has pulled out of that.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: Okay yeah.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: So there's no further talks of combining explorer and console.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: Ideally, that would be a wonderful product so but, but the next step up, in my opinion, is cactus you know blockchain.
Kamlesh Nagware: explorer what are you really the most most of us having more using the fabric, they are definitely using the exploring their their ecosystem.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: Right, so I do notice widely used to bed.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: What I do not know is.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: Is the Community aware that there is a danger of this getting becoming end of life and Is there something that they should have been given a chance to do something about and that's the part I don't know how to go to the next step.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: On that, and that also kind of.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: You know alliance with the that policy that we were talking about earlier, is that the maintainer has not been active for the past six months.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: You know, an activity, so it would be removed from right permission, so if you have no maintenance left and what is the next step, what do you, what do you do with that project like to do.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: Is there a process in place like Okay, if the maintainer levels falls below three there is, we know we need to do something.
Tracy Kuhrt: Now.
Nathan George: um well and this brings up a good point is once you've group completely out of maintainer so it's hard to do a yard, sale and offer up code.
Nathan George: My inner to help on board anyone new um and that will raise the other question about the options available.
Nathan George: A lot of them are kind of speculative meaning it we're kind of offering it up to say, this could happen.
Nathan George: Have all those options, is there any of them where there's a name associated with it, where someone said, this seems interesting to me or I might put the work in otherwise i'm just not sure if we can count on it actually happening.
Tracy Kuhrt: I know.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): And just wanted to add, I mean my colleague data in here, who is on the development team.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): You know couldn't make it today, but he actually embraced me a little bit before the call and and I just wanted to add a little bit to what I said about the IBM team and the interest and.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): it's true that you know what was said is absolutely correct and what I would add, is the reason why IBM is kind of pulled out of this is actually merely resource issue reading and.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): They were interested in the you know the possibilities that this kind of convergence with the would bring.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): To the console but in the end it looked at the amount of code and they decided they couldn't just take responsibility for that code so maybe you know, I think, read the comments from.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): I think you know, Peter said, well, maybe we could take part of it, that would be useful to us, we don't want to take everything over.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): And maybe something like this would also be possible with the oppression console but you know, the bottom line is the reason primarily has been well this is more code than we can possibly take over and in the end they decided it wasn't ago.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): So that's probably the reason for the pullout.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: And that's pretty much primarily the reason we're also lucky.
I understand it.
Tracy Kuhrt: All right, yeah and I I.
Tracy Kuhrt: Peter I know you're on the call, I think you know important just to note for those who might not know I hyper ledger cactus is about interoperability.
Tracy Kuhrt: between different blockchain platforms and explorer is about being able to look at your.
Tracy Kuhrt: Block chain network to ensure that it's running smoothly and you know kind of the number of blocks and those sorts of things so.
Tracy Kuhrt: I I mean when I hear like this comment about you know, putting it into practice, I wonder, exactly what that means, because I seem to be focused on two different things, and so, Peter I hate to put you on the spot, I know it's early there early for me as well.
Tracy Kuhrt: But any any comments to add to your your email that you sent out to the best response to the data.
Peter Somogyvari: No problem Tracy.
Peter Somogyvari: I just I would just want to emphasize the part about.
Peter Somogyvari: picking out the most useful components for the same reason word or new said, and he just said about the code is being large.
Peter Somogyvari: and
Peter Somogyvari: I would say the parts that we can reuse or start maintaining they would be the ones that are.
Peter Somogyvari: The most important and then the ones that we already have.
Peter Somogyvari: Something in our issue tracker for which is to have this functionality to observe, to be able to resolve the state of blocked fate.
Peter Somogyvari: and
Peter Somogyvari: The reason by I and a few other people in our one of our maintaining those meetings for that it would be a good idea to have something like this think actors was because of the theme of.
Peter Somogyvari: I explore the characters both being types of projects that are Meta in the sense that they need to support all other types of ledger's for whatever they said they are do whatever it is that they do.
Peter Somogyvari: And that was.
Peter Somogyvari: that's how it started.
Peter Somogyvari: and
Peter Somogyvari: I know that's not strictly interrupt but at the same time it's something that's Jason just born out of this theme.
Peter Somogyvari: And then I want to doubly underline that.
Peter Somogyvari: We could not, we definitely could not take over the entire code base, it would have to be trimmed down to very specific ports, and then the other thing to underline is that.
Peter Somogyvari: I could only make any sort of recommendations of what those costs would be if.
Peter Somogyvari: We could talk to people who are running it in production and then we will make the pitch to them saying what if we pick these components out.
Peter Somogyvari: And then we will start may take those as actors or would you then be then to come back and contribute, or maybe join us, maintaining the smaller part.
Peter Somogyvari: So I would want to run this little survey, where the exist there I would test out the willingness of the existing Community use it to see if they are also willing to buy into my idea, the same way that I see.
Peter Somogyvari: And there's a there's a version of events where suddenly a lot of people have their hands up saying oh yeah I looked at it earlier huge.
Peter Somogyvari: deal with it, but now that you brought this idea forward and the small points that they actually use could be maintained by me now I put my hand up to actually be a meditator or at least a contributor.
Peter Somogyvari: So my entire proposal hinges big time on the outcome of that survey if if we go out to the Community and it's still crickets even after us to set of components, then my answer would be formed by that as well, because if.
Peter Somogyvari: It there's a lot of users, but then, even with the producer of components, no one is willing to stand up and help out with it, then.
Peter Somogyvari: that's some of you think about for us as well.
Peter Somogyvari: So.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: That makes perfect sense to me I think yeah I like the idea of having a survey put out to the larger community.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: You know, for explorer code to see you guys use it, you know how would you like to be you know just get a feel for maintainer is for this, you know first find out what is the interest.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: In the, the problem is it's a utility right a tool is always harder to get that number of maintenance for, but we can we can still try, so I think we should we should definitely do that survey.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: And at the end of that survey, you know it looks like there are few people and then that helps you determine Peter, if any, parts of it should be absorbed into cactus and if there aren't any, then the next logical step would be to just you know archive the project.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: But definitely give the Community a chance, I like the idea to.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: Because I feel like we do reach out to them, we are always you know doing meetups and you know, asking for contributors, but we've never really asked for maintainer such so not sure if folks know that we're looking for containers so.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: That survey would definitely help.
Tracy Kuhrt: So I have some commentary here, I guess, to add to this conversation, so what i've heard so far is that there are certain projects and or labs that might be interested in small pieces of hyper ledger explored to bring them in.
Tracy Kuhrt: There has been a concerted effort in the past to get additional contributors to come into hyper ledger explore the contributors haven't shown up, which means, then you can turn them into me haters.
Tracy Kuhrt: I.
Tracy Kuhrt: I feel like if we continue down this path of serving and trying to get somebody interested we're going to be back here in six months to a year.
Tracy Kuhrt: With no further progress having been made and it's it's kind of a concern right because I see that there are people who are trying to contribute to explore.
Tracy Kuhrt: Where I actually redirected somebody yesterday from the.
Tracy Kuhrt: fabric code contributors to the explorer channel in discord and I guess i'm just very concerned that you know we don't have people right now, who are willing to even review those PRS and do anything with the project so.
Tracy Kuhrt: You know, as I look at this my my my thought is you we deprecate this at this point, which would give the notification to people that if they are interested, because they are said.
Tracy Kuhrt: This would be the option, but of course deprecation means that you have somebody who's willing to support it for another six months.
Tracy Kuhrt: which it sounds like we don't have anybody who's willing to support it for another six months, or do we just say you know this is.
Tracy Kuhrt: Something that we think is we've done the best that we can, and it is now time to call it, and say let's talk about this.
Tracy Kuhrt: Any any reactions to that from the.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: So if if something.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: is needed.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: So if some support is needed for a few moments I can I can definitely you know, do something about it from our side to see.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: That would be just be maintenance mode like it has been for the past like nine months, I think the last release that was pushed out was last August, and there have been no new really visits totally been.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: You know, looking at the PRS and you know doing something about it so but for it to one person from 50 to a MAC person family, etc, I could get them to do you know, a be available, the next few months for support, if that is but that's that's about it.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: yeah any new development.
Tracy Kuhrt: Right understood understood, which I mean deprecate see is the intention to say that in six months we'll move this to an end of life steak.
Tracy Kuhrt: But we are willing to maintain it for another six months in case people have anything that they want to.
Tracy Kuhrt: come in, or participate in so that's that's kind of the the reason that I was thinking that.
Tracy Kuhrt: it's good to know i've been here, thank you and Peter.
Peter Somogyvari: The other thing we could do is.
Peter Somogyvari: And the fly fit now and the survey, at the same time, I think it's a it's a it might actually help the survey that's the point I was going to make earlier.
Peter Somogyvari: Which is that you know we say that this is not an applied, but we also put it right there that huge letters that there's a survey very or looking to.
Peter Somogyvari: resurrect parts of it and that if you're serious about helping out the dead and contact us, and that would give it eight because.
Peter Somogyvari: You know if if you ask people a year ago, please can contribute a lot of them as far as well.
Peter Somogyvari: i'm using it and it's kind of important but i'll just let someone else contribute because i'm busy, and then everyone's thinking that you know there's a name for that problem they will fix that someone else will do them.
Peter Somogyvari: So, but that if its end of life, and you are actually using the edge important to you, for whatever reason, to the point that you're willing to help you're going to think about it much more seriously, now that you know the messages out there saying this is done.
Peter Somogyvari: So i'm not saying that you should definitely do this i'm just saying in my opinion, this also credible option to think about where we just.
Peter Somogyvari: Do the end of life but literally on the same part of the Read me the same paragraph we say, please leave a comment and this issue that we open which survey where.
Peter Somogyvari: You could explain what you're using it for How important is it to you and would you be the cumulative fit that support out of it somewhere else and.
Peter Somogyvari: Which ports those would be, which is very valuable data for us in the future if anything happens.
Right.
or no.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): So I don't know if I would go as far as I mean a survey per se, but I think Peter is touching a an interesting point, which is when we archive projects.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): It would be good if there was a way we could communicate and maybe this is like in the description I don't know what we have now.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): But there should be something that says hey if you know this project was archived, but if you have an interest, you know in in contributing resurrecting this project feel free to contact the tasc or something along those lines.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): So that we can communicate to people that that's always a possibility, because if i'm an external Party I may not even think that this is a possibility.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): which I think it is, I mean tell me if i'm wrong, but I don't think anybody would be a positive, you know if.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): The example of explore if we decide okay sorry there was just no resources into this we move it to the side is it six months a year from now, somebody shows up and say hey i'm really interested in this, I will take it over I don't think we would say no.
Tracy Kuhrt: yeah completely agree, I think you know, this could be something that we do as we move these to.
Tracy Kuhrt: archive is also add a note at the top of the Ruby like that basically says this project has been archived if you're interested in resurrecting this please contact the hyper ledger PC at whatever QC.
Tracy Kuhrt: Network never it is right.
Tracy Kuhrt: yeah exactly I think I think that makes a lot of sense right same is like we could do that, right now, with the the borough.
Tracy Kuhrt: Project, although it has been Okay, do you think already so it might be a bit difficult to make that change i'm not sure how difficult it is rate changes on so that's Okay, but yeah I do, I do think having some sort of notice is useful.
Tracy Kuhrt: All right, any other comments um.
Ry Jones: it's just mechanical so if.
Ry Jones: If someone has texted they want to add the borough remi or this readme.
Ry Jones: You know I can archive it slip in the change every archive it it's not that big of a deal.
Tracy Kuhrt: Okay, they try and I am happy to provide some some text, and then we can get that into the borough one maybe any other ones that we've done since.
Tracy Kuhrt: There recently.
Tracy Kuhrt: Right you brought up this is security stuff on blockchain explorer have some things that are critical one high priority that have been created, as far as issues was their commentary you wanted to add around that.
Ry Jones: Right, the commentary is I based on the high number of.
Ry Jones: That there are 25 critical or high severity.
Ry Jones: Issues I don't think anyone should be using it as is if you're rolling out.
Ry Jones: explorer somewhere.
Ry Jones: There are a lot of issues in the code.
Ry Jones: The other thing I wanted to point out is we already have pull requests that have been open since September of 2021.
Ry Jones: So it's.
Ry Jones: It you know I think the next step is end of life.
Ry Jones: And that will just acknowledge the situation that we're in which is there a bunch of security problems, no one is merging essentially pull requests are not being merged.
Ry Jones: And then we if someone shows up and wants to take it over then we applaud them and make it happen.
Ry Jones: So I just you know, in its current state, with all the security alerts I.
Ry Jones: I think another whatever three to six months of not enough life is is not a good signal to send.
Ry Jones: All right, any.
Tracy Kuhrt: Other thoughts or comments.
Tracy Kuhrt: So if you need a preference or thoughts on the two kind of suggestions that have been out there around.
Tracy Kuhrt: deprecate it end of life, based on the conversation waiting for.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: Either one is fine, whatever the steering committee seems is the next logical step is fine with me.
Tracy Kuhrt: Right.
Tracy Kuhrt: So i've heard.
Tracy Kuhrt: A device from a few folks I think.
Tracy Kuhrt: I haven't heard from everybody that was there, do we have any sort of consensus this point.
Ry Jones: well.
Ry Jones: If you put emotion before the tlc to end of life and let people vote against it.
Ry Jones: Then we know.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): And I asked.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): Every keys.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): Are these public.
Ry Jones: sort of but no.
Ry Jones: They.
Ry Jones: Their public the tasc Members are in a special permission group so you have the ability to see those.
Ry Jones: They are private to the maintainer.
Ry Jones: The PR is that get created are.
Ry Jones: You know, take a look here.
Ry Jones: So, like these be ours.
Ry Jones: just say that it has a vulnerability.
Ry Jones: But they all say what it is.
Ry Jones: But there there's nothing stopping anyone if you fork this to your account and turn on dependable, you will see all this so, is it public not directly on the on this page but.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): So.
Ry Jones: You discovered very easily.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): These are easy to fix right typically dependable just say okay marriage.
Ry Jones: Sure, but this is.
Ry Jones: Like perhaps.
Ry Jones: What seven of these and they're 42 security issues, so, for whatever reason.
Ry Jones: like these, ones that are these two that are on on high it couldn't generate the.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): Like.
Ry Jones: If you.
Ry Jones: click here, it says cannot update to a non mobile version because of this dependency conflict.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): Okay, so there's no issues that require some work.
Ry Jones: yeah they're the ones that it can't auto generate dude do generally need you know some to put some small dependency updated and then you need to retest everything to make sure that things don't work so it's not quite as mechanical.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): And so, let me ask the need, I mean when you said you could you could possibly maintain for another six months but.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): without doing.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): Further development does that include addressing these kind of issues or no.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: Yes, yeah we take care of that.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): Because you know that seems like something that should be pretty high on the list if we wanted to, otherwise we they I, in my opinion, if we don't do at least this kind of stuff there is no other choice than putting aside.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): With the big labels thing quite child and maybe we don't get into the details, but we would have to say, you know, there are known issues don't use this in production or something.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): Of you want to archive anyway, but.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): It would just make it more obvious that has to be this I was trying to get up, I think, maybe we should still either you know.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): A warning.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): So that once it's archived people don't see it, but I can still use it if we know there are issues.
Ry Jones: So this is the warning.
Ry Jones: At the top of hyper ledger composer.
Ry Jones: That Simon put in.
Ry Jones: So I think something along.
Ry Jones: These lines would be appropriate.
Tracy Kuhrt: Okay.
Tracy Kuhrt: So.
Tracy Kuhrt: back to the question of do we have any sort of.
Tracy Kuhrt: motion that anybody would like to make on this, as far as what the future direction should be.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): Even that is very easy as writing this reminded us mechanically it's very simple right archiving a repo.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): or vice versa, I think we should move it to an offline for archival and and and kind of see if anybody, you know reacts to it because I agree with what Peter was saying earlier people tend to take the easy way out right.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): Maybe they do use it.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): Maybe they want to keep it but they're like well as long as somebody else does the work for me i'm just going to keep it a low profile.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): In a way, you know you we've been trying to get people to step in they haven't if we just you know it will force the issue.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): it's like well, either now you step up and you, you know we can earn archive it and you can take over, or it is archive don't use it anymore or use it at your own peril.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): So i'm in favor.
Tracy Kuhrt: So let's let's see if we can then have a vote to end of life hyper ledger for today.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): Does anyone with the with the proper text to say you know if people are interested to take it over, we can definitely reopen it.
Tracy Kuhrt: I agree, I agree on your.
Peter Somogyvari: Oh, I was just going to say the same thing going on just said just wanted to make sure to that is part of emotion.
Tracy Kuhrt: Okay, so the.
Tracy Kuhrt: Can I get a motion to end of life hyper ledger explore with text in the Read me about the ability to archive if people are interested in taking on mentorship.
Tracy Kuhrt: Thanks.
Tracy Kuhrt: Have a second.
Tracy Kuhrt: Here instead oh.
Tracy Kuhrt: Alright, so right, I think the roll call would be good, given that we didn't hear from everybody.
Ry Jones: Okay.
Ry Jones: on abortion before the tlc Jim, how do you vote.
Jim Zhang: Yes.
Kamlesh Nagware: Yes.
Nathan.
Nathan George: Yes.
Peter.
Peter Somogyvari: Yes.
Tracy.
Ry Jones: Troy.
Ry Jones: Yes or no.
Yes.
Artem Barger: Yes.
Bobbi Muscara: Bobby yes.
Yes.
Ry Jones: Okay, so the motion passes, there are four people on the tlc who are not here so.
Ry Jones: passes whatever eight to four.
Tracy Kuhrt: All right, thanks right and you need to thank you to yourself, and to the rest of the maintainer from dtc and Fujitsu have put so much effort into hyper ledger for over the years.
Tracy Kuhrt: As as we if we hear from anybody who would like to take on the internship of this, we will definitely let you know pekin yeah I think thanks for bringing this to us to.
Chinoy, Vinita M.: Thank you for all your support.
Tracy Kuhrt: Alright, so with that we are 10 minutes left i'm going to for the project families Task Force what i'm going to do is set up a off cycle meetings, since we've seen.
Tracy Kuhrt: In the last few TC meeting fat unable to get to the task forces are going to set up a separate meeting for that I think the plan is not for this upcoming Tuesday, but for the following Tuesday.
Tracy Kuhrt: To put something on the calendar, so if you're interested in joining that please check out the chat on project families, and I will ensure that the information is there in that chat next week, I will not be able to attend the PSC Daniel is going to run the QC meeting for us.
Tracy Kuhrt: and ensure that things continue forward, I know that there's a discussion that a room wants to have on the Security Task Force next week, if there's anything else, before we let us know we'll make sure to get that added to the agenda ditto.
Danno Ferrin: On the subject.
Danno Ferrin: called Task Force calls Tuesday there's one for the project Task Force we haven't had an onsite will call, but I think it will be a good opportunity to synthesize.
Danno Ferrin: A discovery did in the tasc meeting and in the last off cycle call so when we do come back before the tasc which probably won't be next week of the.
Danno Ferrin: The security discussion is going to go as long as expected, but the week after will be able to get some concrete recommendations so that's asked people who are interested in the project gaps to Colin, Tuesday, at the same time as this Thursday calls.
Tracy Kuhrt: yeah thanks.
Tracy Kuhrt: So for the mix to tuesday's you'll have some.
Tracy Kuhrt: meetings at the same time, to join for the task forces that we have going on.
Tracy Kuhrt: So.
Tracy Kuhrt: it's before I close the meeting anything else that anybody would like to add to today's.
Tracy Kuhrt: Since there's nothing thanks all for attending and we will well you know we'll talk to you, I guess, next week.
Kamlesh Nagware: yeah Thank you Tracy.
Sean Bohan (Hyperledger): Alright, thanks everybody.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): Thank you.
guys.