Grace Hartley: A button right look at me go.
Grace Hartley: And we can kick off here and everyone else will you know if they trickle in great If not, they can watch the recording.
Grace Hartley: So should start with the.
Grace Hartley: What is it called right be.
Grace Hartley: Thank you antitrust policy.
Ry Jones: Do you mean to share your screen or no.
Grace Hartley: I will, yes, but I don't actually have the link to the antitrust policy here.
Ry Jones: yeah.
Ry Jones: I think we all have memorized.
Grace Hartley: Yes, I think we all know that know it we abide by the antitrust policy and all are welcome here, so we will start with that um cool so.
Grace Hartley: hey Peter thanks for joining us you haven't missed absolutely nothing so cool, so this is our first correct me if i'm wrong but we're back from kind of a hiatus for the chat channel Task Force we've done.
Grace Hartley: Some good work kind of just understand the research behind what the different chat channel to like chat channels are used by all the different teams.
Grace Hartley: I think we want to for today's agenda cover more event any kind of final pieces of feedback input what the Community and share what the conversations said so that's the first item second is, I think.
Grace Hartley: David, you made a good proposal last time of kind of reviewing the analytics from the chat channel as a team and just kind of.
Grace Hartley: You know, having a little data behind our analysis would be great and then third is, I think.
Grace Hartley: At the end of this call, I think you know coming up with like what are kind of options or proposals that we want to pursue for a recommendation and spending some time drafting those two, then we discuss at our next call is what I had in mind anything to add or comment on the room.
Grace Hartley: got okay um, so this is a good segue.
Grace Hartley: So.
Grace Hartley: i'll maybe.
Grace Hartley: start with, so the feedback for If anyone had had any other conversations from the teams on what they use.
Grace Hartley: I particularly reached out to NICO about firefly and what chat channels, they use and understand their feedback so maybe NICO if you don't mind, maybe just.
Grace Hartley: vocalizing verbalizing whatever I know I sent you the kind of questionnaire and you're thinking about it would love to hear what fiber fi works on and then we'll go around the room for other feedback that the.
Nicko Guyer: journey yeah i'm happy to share so passionate about chat and messaging in general, my my career before blockchain was all in the messaging industry so.
Grace Hartley: We have the perfect person.
David Boswell: You can answer all our questions.
Nicko Guyer: Yes, don't use SMS.
Nicko Guyer: i'll start with that.
Nicko Guyer: No, but more on topic sorry.
Nicko Guyer: So you know, most of the containers in the firefly project are collider employees Clara uses slack so we have a pretty good user experience with slack that's kind of what we were all used to.
Nicko Guyer: I had the hardest time getting people to have conversations in the open in rocket chat and.
Nicko Guyer: Somebody asked me for feedback.
Nicko Guyer: a while back, and I said well usually my experience with rocket chat is I send someone a message on rocket chat and then I have to go find them in person and tap them on the shoulder and say hey, can you please look at my message and rocket chat.
Nicko Guyer: And that's that's how we communicate so.
Nicko Guyer: It you know it's it's been great for for new people like new people still seem to find it and we've been able to connect but it's been hard to get people out of the old habit of using slack as much as I try.
Nicko Guyer: Since launching the hyper ledger discord I I said hey you know hyper ledger is trying, this it's not the official chat platform of hyper ledger yet, but like let's really try it and put it through its paces.
Nicko Guyer: So what we actually archived our internal firefly chat in slack to force people to go use discord and it's been fantastic there's been tons of.
Nicko Guyer: Just collaboration about code and PRS and we just got all of that conversation to move out in the open, which is where i've been trying to push it and just logistically hadn't been able to achieve that, before.
Nicko Guyer: And I think just having like the just discord is such a smoother user experience, it also has a great mobile APP.
Nicko Guyer: notifications work well, so when people are chatting I actually get a notification on my phone and I can either respond to it there, or I can go back to my computer and and chat We absolutely love the way that threading works in there, where if somebody wants to bring up a big topic.
Nicko Guyer: that's going to dominate the Channel, we can just take that off into a thread, and then I love actually I like this better a discord than in slack how it, we can sort of have these ephemeral threads.
Nicko Guyer: That expire automatically after you know, a day after nobody's chatted in it, so if a topic comes up that we need to just have through and then it's kind of done at that point that just automatically gets cleaned up in an archive.
Nicko Guyer: So it's been a really positive experience, personally, I hope, that's the direction we go because it's been great for us, and I would love to get that the one thing that's missing right now is.
Nicko Guyer: Just external Community members that are just I noticed a couple more people joined our firefly channel in rocket chat.
Nicko Guyer: I part of me is like man I wish they weren't discord so we can all chat there, but I know it's not the the official thing, so I haven't been haven't been pitching it to people outside kind of the core group at this point yeah that's been kind of our experience, though.
David Boswell: it's really helpful, I just want to flag, one thing that I think that I think is super important in what you said, I mean all of the feedback was helpful.
David Boswell: But I think what you said about closing the internal discussion, regardless of which tools we use just I mean maybe if.
David Boswell: We as a task force can encourage people to do what you just did I mean I think anytime you're having internal you know for them versus a Community forum you're gonna you know, make it that much harder to engage with the Community I think what you just said.
David Boswell: Key right, you know.
Nicko Guyer: yep it was a forcing function, when people went to go, send a message and like Oh, that the channels gone, where do I go now and then.
Nicko Guyer: It was like okay well hey come join the discord.
David Boswell: And if you have that channel, you know conversations are obviously going to happen on there and then it's going to exclude the Community, and you have to remind people Oh, did you go.
David Boswell: Take that conversation over there and it may or may not happen right, but if you only have one choice yep.
Grace Hartley: No that's awesome feedback and good to hear that or it's helpful understanding like your user experience, because you basically onboard a new people.
Grace Hartley: You know, maybe they are familiar with discord already but odds are everyone was in and hearing that the overall experience is pretty good onboarding new people, I think I think is helpful is that is that a fair assessment, though, want to make sure.
Nicko Guyer: yeah.
Nicko Guyer: yeah so we had a mix of people that.
Nicko Guyer: Already were familiar with discord and they were like should I joined with my gaming screen name or so, so we had a mix of people that were familiar with it, and then a mix of people that were totally brand new that logged in for the first time went oh yeah Okay, this makes sense yep.
Grace Hartley: Okay cool.
Grace Hartley: yeah yeah no that's good to know that both we're in a good spot awesome thanks for sharing that that's very, very helpful um.
Tracy Kuhrt: I think that.
Tracy Kuhrt: yeah yeah I mean just to ECHO.
Tracy Kuhrt: kind of david's comment, I think.
Tracy Kuhrt: it's hard to tell whether or not rocket chat would have been as successful right because the slack channel still existed.
Tracy Kuhrt: So I think there's.
Tracy Kuhrt: there's just a need, I think, to have a single place to communicate, regardless of what we do and I would highly recommend that we don't have split brain in our decision here.
Nicko Guyer: I agree.
Nicko Guyer: And I had been.
Nicko Guyer: yeah I totally agree Tracy i'm trying to push people to that, I think.
Nicko Guyer: I don't think.
Nicko Guyer: Members of the team saw rocket chat as a viable.
Nicko Guyer: replacement for for slack just in terms of the user experience we had we had folks that just like flat out couldn't like it worked for months and then one day, they just couldn't login anymore, and it just didn't work on their computer.
Nicko Guyer: The the mobile APP doesn't do push notifications, at least on ios on my phone.
Nicko Guyer: There was just a lot of a lot of barriers to making.
Nicko Guyer: So I totally agree that we need one place, and I just think rocket chat.
Nicko Guyer: could not be that place for the firefly team.
David Boswell: Really, encouraging when we gave them a better offer and they were able to move to.
It.
Nicko Guyer: And everybody's jumped in with both feet.
David Boswell: yeah.
David Boswell: No, I agree that feedback I can't i've i've been having trouble logging into rocket chat the past couple weeks do.
David Boswell: frustrated.
Grace Hartley: Right, you have your hand up on.
Ry Jones: yeah so on the notification issue.
Ry Jones: that's a.
Ry Jones: Paid feature you get so many notifications for free, and then they take it away and we were going through the our free notification limit like in a day or two every month.
Ry Jones: So I just disabled it because it didn't last long enough i'd rather have it not be enabled then.
Ry Jones: You know it works for a day or two, a month, and then it goes away.
Nicko Guyer: that's all it's funny yeah and.
Ry Jones: We have had you're not the only ones, having problems logging into rocket chat.
Ry Jones: i've had long running help desk battles trying to get rocket chat to work for people to log in and it doesn't so you're not alone.
Grace Hartley: yeah that's good point.
Grace Hartley: yeah good to clarify, though I guess so want to open it up to the other members of the group, if they had.
Grace Hartley: received or talk to anyone else I know we went through kind of prior conversations just want to give everyone a chance you know if they've spoken to other Community members or at different projects and receive their feedback on the chat channel experience.
Peter Somogyvari: From my side nothing new I.
Peter Somogyvari: haven't heard anything else for from it's already.
Grace Hartley: Surveys okay it's filled out.
Grace Hartley: And, just to be clear, I did i've been going back and forth with our know on the fabric feedback as soon as I receive it.
Grace Hartley: I will drop it in here, but they are aware and they're working on it i'm excited to know that's an important element for us to perfect important data for us to include in in our proposals.
Ry Jones: I asked Sarah oh sorry go ahead.
Tracy Kuhrt: No i'm sorry right.
You finish.
Ry Jones: i've asked Sarah from.
Ry Jones: Rojas a couple times and she was out for a while and I haven't been able to get Ahold of her.
Ry Jones: So that that's that's the team, I really want to talk to and i've not been able to get the input from them so that that's all I got Tracy.
Tracy Kuhrt: yeah no I.
Tracy Kuhrt: I just wanted to comment on discord itself so i've joined discord for another project, as well as the hyper ledger test, one that we've set up.
Tracy Kuhrt: I actually find it very noisy.
Tracy Kuhrt: A lot noisier than.
Tracy Kuhrt: than I do rocket chat and I don't know why that is.
Tracy Kuhrt: It may be all the you know wave sorts of responses and I don't know if there's ways for us to if we decide to go this way for us to turn some of the noise off.
Tracy Kuhrt: As a whole, but that is somewhat annoying to me, I guess, I and I noticed actually that Russia has gotten noisy to.
Tracy Kuhrt: In some ways, because now anytime anybody joins the channel that shows up as a new message, and so I can actually go into a.
Tracy Kuhrt: channel that I haven't looked at in a while and it says, you know you have.
Tracy Kuhrt: a bunch of new messages and then I will get them and they're all you know so and so has joined so and so it's joining so it's joined.
Tracy Kuhrt: And maybe there's one message in there and finding that one messages it's very difficult, and so I want the see if there's a way as we go through and choose the chat platform if there's a way to reduce noise of so and so joined.
Tracy Kuhrt: You know, maybe it's important maybe it's not but for some of us might not be as important for.
Tracy Kuhrt: You know, maybe for the individual project Community it's important to know that hey you have somebody that's joined and, if you want to welcome them and be friendly and see what they're joining for.
Tracy Kuhrt: But maybe for the people who are just curious as to what's going on in the project, maybe they're not as interested in who's joined that channel.
Tracy Kuhrt: For the past, you know week or whatever.
Ry Jones: So I agree.
Ry Jones: I have muted basically all.
Ry Jones: servers and channels and discord.
Ry Jones: So that I don't get notifications for stuff like that.
Ry Jones: unless someone directly mentions me.
Ry Jones: and
Ry Jones: The.
Ry Jones: One thing that.
Ry Jones: is different with with rocket chat slack and pretty much every other chat platform that i've used and discord is when you join a discord server you're automatically joined to every channel, you can join.
Ry Jones: So it's, as you said, it is very noisy and very chatty.
Peter Somogyvari: The way I been combating that on my end is.
Peter Somogyvari: I.
Peter Somogyvari: selectively mute certain channels that I know i'm not that interested in.
Peter Somogyvari: That it's not perfect.
Peter Somogyvari: But it has helped a lot to.
Peter Somogyvari: sort of thin the herd and try to get that my attention.
Peter Somogyvari: And then they the inbox feature they have I really like that, for making sure that there's someone tagged me, then, that I will always find that, even if there were hundreds of other messages that I think for, for whatever reason.
Grace Hartley: Think I might just be like.
Grace Hartley: i'm endlessly behind on my segment on any messages and any other forums i'm in.
Grace Hartley: So i'm like just feels like I don't know if anything will help me at this point.
Grace Hartley: i'm like i'm always behind and I man, but they're just so many of them.
Grace Hartley: Which is yeah it's just an endless battle.
Grace Hartley: Even my text messages for that matter, um.
Grace Hartley: Any other just comments feedback generally that that we want to capture.
Grace Hartley: Okay, great and.
Tracy Kuhrt: Then.
Tracy Kuhrt: days ago, Sir, Sir, Greece, but I think it's important for us just didn't know I don't think i've seen it here that.
Tracy Kuhrt: In general we don't want this, but.
Grace Hartley: For you mean so we want to make sure we're making this series any like.
David Boswell: yeah as a recommendation I mean there shouldn't be an internal this shouldn't be internal and external parallel forums, I would think for projects, you know.
Tracy Kuhrt: yeah and I still I still struggle with the, even though I know we have it right to get her the whatsapp the we chat the like I really want something that's official and one thing that's official.
David Boswell: yeah so maybe these are two slightly different things, but related I mean I guess i'm thinking more like guidance to the Member companies like if you have an internal discussion about your project that's detrimental to the Community.
David Boswell: yeah vs yeah because in theory, you could have a.
David Boswell: project level chat channel project X chooses this chat project wide uses a different chat plan on you can still have that advice, but still don't have an internal one use whatever the project PICs right.
David Boswell: But you're if I heard you correctly you're saying across the board, we should have one we shouldn't have split channels across the Community.
Tracy Kuhrt: that's right that's right I don't want fabric to stay on rocket chat and.
Tracy Kuhrt: fight to go to discord and somebody else to choose whatsapp and somebody cheese, we get like I didn't want one official.
David Boswell: yeah, so I think those are related but yeah.
David Boswell: Maybe two different points like.
David Boswell: You know if we, how do we go to a member of company and say hey if you're having this internal forum you're you're hurting you're hurting your community.
Grace Hartley: yeah.
Grace Hartley: Go ahead and he goes.
Nicko Guyer: I was just gonna say I agree that I think hyper ledger should only pick one having more than one would significantly hamper collaboration between projects as well.
Tracy Kuhrt: Exactly.
Grace Hartley: i'm not sure i'm ready to make that whether I agree with that just yet, but.
Grace Hartley: i'm not saying I don't disagree or disagree definitely are definitely agree but i'm by judgment is still my is still out on that matter just to.
Grace Hartley: Be clear.
Grace Hartley: So I can say.
Tracy Kuhrt: Is that because you're free we're not going to choose your preferred platform.
Grace Hartley: um I think.
Grace Hartley: partially shirt yeah partially, but also, I think it's a matter of.
Grace Hartley: I don't want to under like I think we want to meet the projects where they are so.
Grace Hartley: that's and that's part of the benefit so like you know if the shirt basically would love to be on discord that's not a secret, but I also think it's a matter of like the India chapter uses.
Grace Hartley: whatsapp you know and and should we be meeting them where they are yeah and saying, if this is working for you all who am I to say you know.
Grace Hartley: Stop I don't know like so i'm not, I do believe in meeting them where they are that's where i'm coming from.
Tracy Kuhrt: i'll let read comment for that one.
Ry Jones: Sure, so this is.
Ry Jones: I don't want to talk a bunch of inside baseball, but this is something that I struggle with internally.
Ry Jones: For hyper ledger projects on the hyper ledger employee teams.
Ry Jones: We can't tell Community Members, you know you will do it this way.
Ry Jones: This came up in in recently in in the way people are recording meeting notes and.
Ry Jones: Their forums and it's we can't we can't we can we can give them incentives.
Ry Jones: We can we can ask them to please play ball.
Ry Jones: But we can't we don't have a lever they're not employees, we can't you know tell them, you may not use we chat.
Ry Jones: Because there's going to ignore us and that's attention that I feel is like it's like I would prefer one chat platform I would prefer discord, but I also know that, like you know we chat is going to apac is going to be all wechat there's nothing, nothing we can do so.
Tracy Kuhrt: yeah so I guess my commit to this whole thing is.
Tracy Kuhrt: That if projects have decided they want to bring their project to hyper ledger and they should participate in hyper ledger right, and I would say that meeting that project, where they are.
Tracy Kuhrt: would be a question of why did you come to hyper ledger then.
Tracy Kuhrt: And I know this is very strong sort of finance and I know that, like rice says that it's not to stance it is accepted by all, but I do think that you know when you make a choice, you should.
Tracy Kuhrt: try and be part of the Community that you've made a choice to be part of.
Peter Somogyvari: That is true.
David Boswell: yeah I mean I certainly understand, I think we still need to acknowledge that people will go off and spin up something else potentially like we chat, for example, like I said so, how do we, what do we do in that case, do we acknowledge it do we ignore it do we try to.
David Boswell: integrate it somehow.
Ry Jones: And I.
Grace Hartley: definitely say we're not posting it on any of the wikis, for example, like say like.
Grace Hartley: Or you know or whatever it is, you know, do we say we will only ever advertised one chat channel, or do we say it's your it's your working group, if you put in there.
Grace Hartley: join the next group and X channel, are we going to say you can't do that.
David Boswell: I personally think we probably should I mean the we each had example I mean if you're a Community Member in China, and you want to collaborate that's probably the right place for you to go the we chat right, I mean we should make that discoverable.
Ry Jones: I think.
Grace Hartley: So it's.
Ry Jones: it's been a really hard slog with with a row ha in particular.
Ry Jones: You know, because they've added a bunch of rich bots and it's not great, because when some spammer comes in and start spamming which they do.
Ry Jones: Somebody has to go and clean up you know in glitter and rocket chat and.
Ry Jones: it's there are no I don't think there any perfect solutions.
Aruna S M: So, no matter how much we.
Aruna S M: Try we cannot stop those spin offs from officially supported challenge right so um I guess what we should be looking for is to what extent we officially support and recognize.
Aruna S M: And we let other groups continue and that's what we want, like grow Community however you grow it on mine but here artificial ways we find that when you can find communities who can help you out, this is what we recommend you to join in a chill we cannot always help everyone.
David Boswell: And I do think the.
The.
David Boswell: story of the negotiation is a positive one, that says, if we provide a.
David Boswell: good enough incentive that we might bring people over to a better platform that they want to use right like it sounded like.
David Boswell: There was willingness to give discord to try, whereas there wasn't willingness to do rocking chair right so maybe we pick the best solution we possibly can incentivize people as much as we can, but yeah.
David Boswell: that's not necessarily going to move everybody with the wechat never going to move right.
Nicko Guyer: yeah, I think, for us it was an obvious upgrade so everyone's excited about it.
Tracy Kuhrt: I just think that if you're going to contact somebody in the dsc.
Tracy Kuhrt: you're the TC number just do not need to join these other on official channels in order to be contacted right.
Tracy Kuhrt: If you're going to contact the project if they've chosen to you know stick with the official hyper ledger project chat system, then like Why would you not.
Tracy Kuhrt: deal with them there and say Oh, you need to come over to my platform to talk to me because I want to integrate with you, I don't think that's going to happen and I don't think it should happen.
Tracy Kuhrt: And that's the problem that we have is that we are very much siloed and we allow ourselves to remain siloed because we allow these things to happen.
Tracy Kuhrt: Is where we where we can't.
Tracy Kuhrt: get new contributors, because.
Tracy Kuhrt: They don't want to join, where the conversations are happening right, so we end up with the situations where a single company or.
Tracy Kuhrt: You know, a couple companies are are driving projects where, as you know, we really want more people to come in, we want the diversity, we want the contributions, but yet people aren't willing to come to that because we've said it's Okay, if you go talk over there.
Grace Hartley: So I think we're jumping ahead on the i'm going to move us forward and the agenda, I think this is definitely an important conversation, but I think what I want to do next before, because I think we'll leave the last 10 minutes to go through the proposals and how we.
Grace Hartley: go about writing them, but I want to give David you a shot to talk about just the analytics because I think seeing some data around the chat channel and how it's done will will also help.
Grace Hartley: inform these proposals.
Grace Hartley: and get us closer to our resolution.
David Boswell: Sure i'm happy to do that and Ryan, you probably know more about the insights than I do, but I can share my screen and then, if there's additional stuff you want to show, certainly, let me know.
David Boswell: But before we do that, let me just set expectations I don't suspect that will have all the data that we would want so maybe one thing that this group could do is.
David Boswell: Think about what metrics are relevant like what would we want to see, and that can help us choose a platform to does this platform and give us metrics around X, Y amp Z right because I I think there's some things i'd like to see.
David Boswell: And I don't think the insights tool does that, so you know, do we have a sense of what what is relevant, what is not because I think the insights tool has some stuff that's not really relevant, for example, and some of the stuff that is here, so let me share my.
Ry Jones: screen yeah i'll let you drive I.
Ry Jones: want to point out that we are.
Ry Jones: New features are not coming to insights for the next little while I would say, for all basically all of q1.
Ry Jones: So.
Ry Jones: don't if you want changes they'll happen, but not this quarter.
David Boswell: And everything i'm sure it is public right right if you go to insights about fx.
David Boswell: yeah you can drill down and find it.
David Boswell: So some of that, like, for example, some of the things I don't think are relevant I to me.
David Boswell: I mean, maybe there's an argument to be made for seeing what emojis people are using maybe there's a sentiment analysis but.
David Boswell: I don't necessarily need to know how many thumbs up or whatever somebody gave, but I would like to see it, for example.
David Boswell: How many new people have joined a you know channel and a given time period and I don't think that's on here, but you know or I don't think the trend in terms of knowing that be, is the most used word on chat is necessary.
David Boswell: super helpful, but here we are at Oregon cloud right so i'm separate from what's an insights if we do, as a group on and say, these are the metrics we think are relevant and could be good to document that but just to scroll through just to see what this shows.
David Boswell: Is you can see some message volume, where the messages are coming from, although a lot of them are unknown, for example, or tied not tied back an individual not tied back to an organization.
David Boswell: You can see who were the most active people, both on an individual level organization level.
David Boswell: I think, for me, maybe the most useful part is down here at the very bottom where you even look at channel so, for example, if I want to see what channels are used are not used, you can sort by messages, so we were talking about.
David Boswell: The 10 of the working group China, you can see, we set up a channel for them, but it's not being used right, so if we want.
David Boswell: To target in and ask like hey mere bmt you wanted to channel the why haven't you used it, I mean that could be This could help us.
David Boswell: figure out in a more targeted way who to ask for we can look at the heavy users and the not have users and try to understand what's working what's not working right, so I find this part useful I guess.
David Boswell: We can see who the heavy users are and that's great and we can see who aren't you know who isn't using them and that's great personally i'd like to again see maybe change in participants over time, you know.
David Boswell: I you know if we do something to try to like onboard.
David Boswell: An example is tomorrow we're going to try to onboard a bunch of people into the Aries chat channel as part of this workshop are doing like we're those people successfully able to get in or not.
David Boswell: Like it'd be nice to know like hey over the last week does many people joined or not I mean here I guess i'd have to.
David Boswell: manually do that I can see how many are here today and I can come back on Friday and see maybe how many people are there and do the math but this doesn't really answer that, for me, without me kind of.
David Boswell: figuring it out myself, so this doesn't give me everything i'd like but it gives us something I don't know right if there were additional I think this is it right, I don't know there's a there's nothing else seems to be.
Ry Jones: No.
Ry Jones: You got it it's pretty limited.
yeah.
Tracy Kuhrt: Is is the this discord have a plug in here for elephants lightspeed ventures.
David Boswell: that's a good question.
David Boswell: I mean, it does seem to have a slack.
Ry Jones: To say.
Ry Jones: not yet.
Ry Jones: But.
Ry Jones: I there is.
Ry Jones: There is a way to get stats out our server isn't quite big enough to do it, but soon.
Ry Jones: There will be a plugin for discord stats for.
Ry Jones: insights like.
Ry Jones: Probably q2.
David Boswell: that's okay that's good to know.
Ry Jones: yeah.
David Boswell: Do we feel like there's any.
David Boswell: In In order, though, to inform our data gathering is there anything on here, we think might be relevant, separate from if a future tool can get stats do we think any of this stuff looks useful for our decision making.
Tracy Kuhrt: So I think I saw two things that were kind of interested in here one I think this list of you know contributors, the actual names to participants I guess is what they call it.
Tracy Kuhrt: yeah that's right, maybe, maybe we should be talking to these people if there are using this stuff the most.
David Boswell: Right turn a salary.
Tracy Kuhrt: information from them about what's good what's bad what would they like to see that sort of thing that the sorts of questions that we had.
Tracy Kuhrt: And then I think the other piece is looking at the channels and the top channels.
Tracy Kuhrt: Again, going back to the comment that somebody made at some point about forums our forums, a better way of handling some of these discussions, because fabric questions right to me that's a specific channel that it's focused on people ask me questions about fabric.
Tracy Kuhrt: That would be better suited to a forum that.
David Boswell: out in chat.
Tracy Kuhrt: Right exactly right and maybe, basically, is the same versus basic contributors.
Tracy Kuhrt: I not I can't claim any knowledge of how those are used differently right but Are there things here that are calling to us to say chats good for certain things, but then there's also another thing that we should be considering which we're not currently considering.
David Boswell: yeah I agree, I think this part is the most useful the channels part I had also really be interested to know, like how many channels are active versus inactive, I guess, this doesn't exactly tell us, but we can look, we can just page through and see how quickly, it falls off.
David Boswell: You know.
Grace Hartley: What is it just sorry, what is the date range for this.
David Boswell: issue you can set it I don't know what the default date.
Grace Hartley: range was just curious last 90 days okay.
David Boswell: yeah.
Grace Hartley: that's good to know.
David Boswell: So I mean, I agree with what tracey's to do, I mean do we need if we do need to do more data gathering this kind of points as to who to ask questions to.
David Boswell: This group.
Grace Hartley: I can speak to Sally Daniel robocop was justin.
Grace Hartley: Has anyone spoken to Sean or wait.
Ry Jones: I have talked to wade.
Ry Jones: And i'm going to say.
Ry Jones: I didn't really get anything useful, but I can ask the indie group more specifically for better feedback.
Tracy Kuhrt: I think i'd get.
Grace Hartley: A sorry.
Tracy Kuhrt: I was just as I did see on the indie contributors channel today.
Tracy Kuhrt: explain our I forget what his name actually is.
Tracy Kuhrt: Yes, Richard Thank you he actually made a comment of can we move off rocket yet yet can we move to the element matrix stuff so like he doesn't you know that there's this discord thing that's out here that people might be testing.
Tracy Kuhrt: Right like from that particular one or it's just I know there's at least one in the person who's not happy with the chat channels.
Grace Hartley: I think and guys keep me honest, I also think.
Grace Hartley: For Wade didn't Nathan talk to wade and we heard some of his feedback he's obviously a power user of rocket chat and happy with with rocket chat my misremembering that please can be.
David Boswell: i'll go back to remember and maybe isn't the notes on the wiki maybe.
Grace Hartley: yeah.
Tracy Kuhrt: To go back and look yeah I remember Nathan did speak to somebody and I thought that he said they were happy with it, but I don't remember a could have been waived for sure yeah.
Ry Jones: So I did.
Ry Jones: I filed a ticket, a while ago to close down our matrix instance or make it archive it.
Ry Jones: Basically matrix isn't going to happen so.
Ry Jones: The the developer those doing the development for matrix has gone.
Ry Jones: they've not been replaced and.
Ry Jones: The priority for doing anything matrix like even adding a channel is exceedingly low.
Ry Jones: So don't don't bet on metrics.
David Boswell: Any other comments or observations or questions about metrics.
Grace Hartley: will think I have any can Would you mind scrolling back up just for a minute.
David Boswell: All the way.
Grace Hartley: Yes, all the way.
Grace Hartley: See so there's been any six channels 20,000 messages, can we compare that to.
Grace Hartley: One thing i'd love to see is just so that's, this is the last 90 days i'd love to compare it to a time period before and say, has it.
Grace Hartley: Sure, increased or decreased, because I think that would be interesting to.
David Boswell: And right, never mind, but this isn't necessarily all the channels on there right didn't, we have to like manually how to channel into insights.
David Boswell: or something I don't remember that.
Ry Jones: you're right the the project channels if they use the like a firefly used firefly star, they will show up in firefly stats.
Ry Jones: But a lot of the channels that aren't in that form, we have to add manually.
David Boswell: that's probably.
Ry Jones: It doesn't and then you can set a date range, so you could pick a specific date range to get like the last 90 days and then set the next date range to be the previous 90 days, and you can get that data it's kind of a pain, but you can get it.
Tracy Kuhrt: If you take if you take the numbers from the last 90 days, then the last six months subtract the two you'll get the 90 days before that.
Tracy Kuhrt: That could be another way to look at that.
David Boswell: Sure, so you guys manually.
Tracy Kuhrt: yeah yeah.
Tracy Kuhrt: yeah unfortunately there's no.
Tracy Kuhrt: time period comparisons.
Tracy Kuhrt: yeah in the elephant sites, which is unfortunate.
Ry Jones: What I.
Ry Jones: What I usually do, for this is, I download there is a basically download csv option.
Ry Jones: So i'll just pick a date range download the csv pick a date range download download the csv.
David Boswell: yeah where there's like an export somewhere on here right.
Ry Jones: yeah there should there should be a button that says, you know.
Ry Jones: Give them spam yeah.
Grace Hartley: And the reason I asked this isn't like has participation, the channels increased or decreased in the last year.
Grace Hartley: I think that would be really interesting so we're able to that would inform kind of.
David Boswell: For sure.
Grace Hartley: help inform some of our decisions.
David Boswell: it's a good question.
Grace Hartley: yeah like.
Grace Hartley: i'm honestly i'm like I can't believe sally's number one you know, like she posts she does regularly but not that much you know what I mean like.
Grace Hartley: So, like so that's just interesting like so i'd love to see a comparison, I like we don't have to do that in this moment we can take that offline as well, but um.
Grace Hartley: If you don't mind David just dropping the link to this insights link into the notes that would be that would be awesome because then we can all go back to and spend some time looking at it in detail on our own time.
David Boswell: The right of the full URL works it's not like session based or anything or.
Ry Jones: That is a very complex question.
Ry Jones: You can there is a button that generates a short link.
David Boswell: Other is.
Ry Jones: I have not found it to be reliable.
David Boswell: right there.
Ry Jones: Oh really oh yeah I put the notes.
Ry Jones: People can try it.
Ry Jones: it's not reliable.
David Boswell: So maybe just point the insights itself.
Ry Jones: yeah like click here click here click here and.
David Boswell: that's annoying.
Okay.
Grace Hartley: Oh, thank you have a great.
Grace Hartley: me share my screen again, and then I think.
Grace Hartley: Maybe spending the last oh perfect see you're dropping their awesome um, so I think we've started, I think we have some more.
Grace Hartley: We can continue our analysis but start to put together, I guess, a couple proposals of like what makes sense for moving forward.
Grace Hartley: Obviously they don't have to be complete, or they can't be complete in the next week or so, but at least getting us starting to formulate our thoughts into evaluating the options we have switches we don't have matrix as an option.
Grace Hartley: But yeah I think like do we want to maybe outline the couple proposals, we want to choose, so one is you know, a single chat foresight one single channel.
Grace Hartley: Do we think we need a proposal that is.
Grace Hartley: Or do we need separate proposals, one for.
Grace Hartley: rocket chat one for discord one for something else, or do we think.
Grace Hartley: A single proposal just around the chat channel one single channel makes sense.
Nicko Guyer: Is anybody advocating that.
Nicko Guyer: Would anybody like to propose rocket chat.
Nicko Guyer: In my mind that proposal is the thing that you want to be adopted.
Tracy Kuhrt: I mean, I think that.
Tracy Kuhrt: feels like there's two proposals at this point once.
Tracy Kuhrt: don't make any changes and to change to discord which seems to be the preferred.
Tracy Kuhrt: platform based on this group.
Right.
Tracy Kuhrt: I also think that it would be very useful for people who haven't been involved in these discussions to see a side by side comparison of the features that were most interesting for people, and you know compare what we currently have versus what we're what discord will provide.
Tracy Kuhrt: that's that's kind of where my brains out but i'm happy to listen to what others have.
Nicko Guyer: yeah I think a side by side comparison I think should.
Nicko Guyer: definitely be.
Nicko Guyer: A part of any is just purely my opinion, side by side comparison should be a part of a proposal.
Nicko Guyer: In my mind, it makes sense that a proposal is a suggestion to make a change so.
Nicko Guyer: I think a proposal would be brought forward to change the status quo to something.
Nicko Guyer: else and if people decide that that's not the best course of action, then the default is nothing changes and we stay in rocket chat.
Nicko Guyer: Okay, I don't think anybody needs to make a proposal to not change anything if that makes sense.
Tracy Kuhrt: Sure yeah yeah nobody needs to write up.
I don't think.
Ry Jones: It will, this is.
Ry Jones: This is a change since.
Ry Jones: Two days ago.
Ry Jones: or Monday.
Ry Jones: I will say that the the marketing committee has adopted discord they have separate discord.
Ry Jones: So that.
Ry Jones: You know, may or may not inform this decision, but that the hyper ledger marketing committee.
Ry Jones: has moved the discord from wherever they were.
Grace Hartley: For their just like to be clear for their coordination purposes right like in their weekly meetings and all that.
Grace Hartley: Not they're not.
Grace Hartley: Putting the press releases or blog posts on there for external purposes, just to be you know it's an internal coordination.
Ry Jones: that's correct.
Grace Hartley: And a lot this point you just want to make sure I was like if they're using it and that's you know, on it like as a way to.
Grace Hartley: share information externally that's that's.
Ry Jones: worth noting ya know.
Ry Jones: Like the.
Ry Jones: One they also have a separate wiki right so.
Grace Hartley: I didn't appreciate that.
Tracy Kuhrt: When when one thing that we might want to consider here is that, in addition to just the fact that we're going to change to this court, maybe some.
Tracy Kuhrt: direction as far as how things are going to be laid out so that we have more consistency across what we have right, I think I tried to do that at one point in the past, but we never really.
Tracy Kuhrt: lined up with those.
Tracy Kuhrt: yeah thanks that's that's probably the thing I just think that.
Tracy Kuhrt: You know, we have now cigs we have working groups, we have labs we have projects both incubated and graduated and other.
Tracy Kuhrt: life cycle versions of project right and what are we going to do with all these things are we keeping all of these channels are we creating a separate I don't know what these things are called the discord but folder, if you will, for all things.
For all working groups.
Tracy Kuhrt: Right now, I think the the one sig that got created here.
Tracy Kuhrt: Is yeah under the special interest groups topic right.
Tracy Kuhrt: Do we have conventions, because I think we've got cactus announcements versus base to announce versus.
David Boswell: firefly announcements.
Tracy Kuhrt: versus you know, whatever I just i'm wondering if we can also provide some sort of mechanism to provide.
Tracy Kuhrt: Some help to Ryan folks on how best to create these sorts of.
Tracy Kuhrt: grouping slash channels.
Ry Jones: I think it's a great idea.
Ry Jones: So one of the.
Ry Jones: One of the things that has been, as you said, Tracy.
Ry Jones: frustrating and confusing on rocket chat is just the plethora of channels.
Ry Jones: and on discord when I set it up.
Ry Jones: Each category, which is the folder.
Ry Jones: spaces VI or emacs.
Ry Jones: The I I delegated the all the permissions.
Ry Jones: To like the community leaders or whatever, because I don't I i'm not interested in deciding like who has permission to start up a video call or something I don't care, I trust the Community to do the right thing, perhaps i'm naive, but.
Ry Jones: It hasn't caused us too much trouble.
Ry Jones: If you want, I can share my screen and show you that but.
Ry Jones: it's it's possible to do.
Nicko Guyer: It i'll just add is that I didn't mention this in my feedback earlier, but the ability for us to sort of self service our own little firefly category has been awesome to be able to create the announcements channel or add a web hook or.
Nicko Guyer: You should just be able to tweak things within our own little sandbox has been great.
Ry Jones: So these are the.
Ry Jones: permissions basically I give all the green checks, except there's like one yeah so a lab maintainer has the ability to create a channel and labs to do whatever and, if you look at.
Ry Jones: I think the.
Ry Jones: The metal channel.
Ry Jones: is taking forever to load, you can tell, based on the colors.
Ry Jones: Like what roles people have.
Ry Jones: But I try not to make that as.
Ry Jones: crazy as it could be, because this is, you know it's meant for gamers so you can.
Ry Jones: There are a bunch of knobs here that I purposely not changed but delegating permissions to name things and create things I think it would be great to do exactly as you said, Tracy and say you can do this, but here are the rules.
Ry Jones: You know if you're creating announcements channel has to be called Fazio and outs or.
Ry Jones: What was the one that you mentioned.
Tracy Kuhrt: Our flyer.
Tracy Kuhrt: cactus announcements.
Tracy Kuhrt: ever.
yeah.
Tracy Kuhrt: let's be consistent, I don't care.
Tracy Kuhrt: I just feel like we should provide some sort of best practices for who's ever getting these channels to be consistent across the board.
Ry Jones: completely agree.
Grace Hartley: yeah.
I think that's a good idea.
Grace Hartley: So 54 next steps.
Grace Hartley: So I mean i'm happy to own starting the proposal for changing discord and.
Grace Hartley: outlining it know the sections and what makes sense.
Grace Hartley: And then.
Grace Hartley: Obviously, will share with the group for feedback and additions and all that, but if that is helpful i'm happy to take the first stab and at least get something going written down.
David Boswell: was great thanks I had one question, though, about proposal is there a second proposal about what we.
David Boswell: recommend or what we want to do in terms of unofficial channels and it feels like maybe a second proposal because it's independent right if we go to discord or stay with rocket chat we still want a position on on official channels right.
Ry Jones: If you're waiting for my for me.
The answer is yes.
Ry Jones: Like the tlc.
Ry Jones: channel should be called you know tlc.
Grace Hartley: I thought so is.
Grace Hartley: I thought david's question sorry if i'm not following this is probably me I thought it was question was we should we have like a recommendation around are basically saying, if you are using on official channel.
David Boswell: i'm sorry i'm going to be.
Grace Hartley: Around word.
Grace Hartley: Sorry go ahead, yes.
David Boswell: platform is kind of like.
Nicko Guyer: yeah.
David Boswell: channels on artificial platforms, or whatever.
Ry Jones: Okay, I got you I misunderstood what you're saying.
David Boswell: This is the wechat.
David Boswell: issue basically do we have do we want to have some sort of recommendation or position on that, like the we chat what's a.
situation.
Grace Hartley: I feel like.
Grace Hartley: That could be covered in the first one.
Grace Hartley: Open the thoughts I feel like you know with their recommendation of of this is the proposal we want to move to this one, this is the.
Grace Hartley: New official chat channel, what does official chat channel need it means all hybrid your business is you know you know conducted on this forum for X y&z reasons, whatever is like.
David Boswell: include being in that is fine, I just thought that maybe when separate, because if we don't go to discord we still and we send our kids that we still want to.
Grace Hartley: position still want.
David Boswell: But I mean we can include it.
David Boswell: And then, if we don't change the discord we pull that part out.
David Boswell: and use it.
yeah.
Grace Hartley: yeah i'm good with.
Grace Hartley: Including and then, if we need to pull it out, because the score is not the right thing.
Grace Hartley: yeah we can pull that I think that's fine.
Ry Jones: I think that's this That would be an interesting.
Ry Jones: Or let me rephrase that I would appreciate it if the tlc took that position if that's going to be the position on we chat and telegram and all that signal.
Ry Jones: publicly and.
Ry Jones: put some sort of enforcement behind that.
Ry Jones: I don't know what that enforcement would be, but I would really appreciate it if if if it's important, and I think it is, I would like the tlc to say this is important.
Ry Jones: make it so.
Tracy Kuhrt: So i'm gonna.
Tracy Kuhrt: Change the topic since nobody wanted to comment on that.
Tracy Kuhrt: So I guess my.
Tracy Kuhrt: topic change is around.
Tracy Kuhrt: Cost of discord.
Tracy Kuhrt: If once we bring over everybody to this cord if we're going to have to increase the size of the server what that's going to take.
Tracy Kuhrt: So right I don't know you can add maybe some blurb in this proposal surrounding kind of the infrastructure that's required.
Tracy Kuhrt: it's it's I know nothing about kind of like how this will run and who's going to be hosting it and all of those sorts of things.
Ry Jones: Sure, could you just add me on that.
Ry Jones: So that it shows up in my task list.
Ry Jones: yeah.
Ry Jones: The short answer is the basic stuff is free basically to almost infinite size.
Ry Jones: The really cool stuff costs, I don't remember less than $100 a month and I don't know what we're paying for rocket chat hosting but it's it's thousands a year I don't know the exact number, but I will get that number for you.
Grace Hartley: Yes, good question good point Okay, so I think we have.
Grace Hartley: I will commit to having a.
Grace Hartley: draft proposal for sure by our next meeting, hopefully, if not sooner to share with the group to start adding in a reservoir that I think we'll see how what makes sense, with the unofficial channel recommendations, but we can start to add that into the initial proposal and then.
Grace Hartley: But if we need to break it out, or if that makes sense that we can make that decision afterwards is there anything else I know our top of the hour.
Grace Hartley: I think I think we're okay Okay, and then we will talk again soon, I appreciate everyone's feedback involvement comments it's very helpful and i'm excited to I think we're getting very close, which is exciting, you know what what's the right thing for the Community.
Nicko Guyer: grace quick question.
Nicko Guyer: Do we have like a timeline of like when.