Vipin Bharathan: Hello people.
David Rowe-Francis: First, and I got my camera.
Vipin Bharathan: Great.
Vipin Bharathan: I will wait for a couple of.
David Rowe-Francis: minutes.
Vipin Bharathan: it's great to see guy.
Vipin Bharathan: lori bastianich.
Bastian Wagner: follow.
Vipin Bharathan: them hi so we wait a couple of minutes before we start normally we do.
Vipin Bharathan: Actually scrambling this morning, so forgive me if i'm a little.
Vipin Bharathan: scattered, you know.
Vipin Bharathan: But i'm going to.
Vipin Bharathan: share a screen in the beginning.
Vipin Bharathan: You know, maybe after about four or five minutes but i'm waiting for the people who are proposed.
Vipin Bharathan: Various projects for this year.
Vipin Bharathan: To show up.
Vipin Bharathan: And normally it takes a couple of minutes for people to get settled in.
Vipin Bharathan: And we'll start at approximately 10 or three or so so give us a couple of minutes, please.
Vipin Bharathan: So, as I mentioned earlier we're going to wait for a couple of minutes before we start.
Vipin Bharathan: I think it's appropriate to talk now.
Vipin Bharathan: It says it's recording but I don't know who is the host.
Vipin Bharathan: I have to check the left here.
Vipin Bharathan: Otherwise, I will.
Vipin Bharathan: claim host.
Vipin Bharathan: and stop the recording if it's not already.
Vipin Bharathan: looks like it is recording know.
Karen Ottoni, Hyperledger: So it shows that you are you're that you're recording.
Vipin Bharathan: that's strange.
Vipin Bharathan: Because I didn't.
Vipin Bharathan: I didn't start recording at all.
Karen Ottoni, Hyperledger: It just started showing it.
Vipin Bharathan: Oh okay so because it's showing as recording on the cloud I think not locally So hopefully i'll be able to retrieve the recording.
Vipin Bharathan: Anyway, doesn't matter.
Vipin Bharathan: Because we are all here.
Vipin Bharathan: and welcome to the first meeting of the cmc that the capital markets, say, for the US Europe section.
Vipin Bharathan: The main thing to note is there's been a lot of activity of course everybody has heard of the.
Vipin Bharathan: oncoming suppose.
Vipin Bharathan: crypto winter, maybe, who knows.
Vipin Bharathan: But efforts in the capital markets fear are very active, especially with.
Vipin Bharathan: projects being initiated by.
Vipin Bharathan: initiated by.
Vipin Bharathan: Central banks and others.
Vipin Bharathan: And I see that several people here at proposed different projects like, for example, sandy had proposed a project to deal with.
Vipin Bharathan: CBD sees response to the Fed.
Vipin Bharathan: And some other some other projects but.
Vipin Bharathan: Let me first say a couple of things, one is that.
Vipin Bharathan: We are.
Vipin Bharathan: We are meeting as an open.
Vipin Bharathan: group inside hyper ledger so we have two idea to a couple of standards, one is the antitrust policy and the other is the code of conduct these are important things that we have to be aware of I important.
Vipin Bharathan: constraints that we have to be aware of.
Vipin Bharathan: And the details are to be found in the meeting minute meeting minutes notes that I had sent earlier in the chat.
Vipin Bharathan: So let us start.
Vipin Bharathan: Without you know too much.
Vipin Bharathan: I just wanted.
Vipin Bharathan: I just want people to come forward and talk about what they want to do, rather than me just holding forth because communities, the most.
Vipin Bharathan: important part of this so.
Vipin Bharathan: Maybe we should start with a couple of people who are.
Vipin Bharathan: who had proposed projects like sandy.
Vipin Bharathan: or David thoreau Francis.
Vipin Bharathan: And maybe Karen Karen should.
Vipin Bharathan: pay it off because she's the point of contact for hyper ledger and, as such, the main hyper ledger REP on the call, so please can can you.
Vipin Bharathan: outline the different ways in which we can interact with the capital markets through the.
Vipin Bharathan: hyper ledger.
Vipin Bharathan: constructs that have been set up the wiki email, and what our dental Amos.
Karen Ottoni, Hyperledger: Sure sure I can do that no problem um so for anyone that's new that's joining.
Karen Ottoni, Hyperledger: You know this group as a.
Karen Ottoni, Hyperledger: similar to the other special interest groups at hyper ledger if you've participated in any of those if this is the first time you're here um.
Karen Ottoni, Hyperledger: One way to participate, is to join these calls calls regularly you know VIP and does a great job of suggesting items for the agenda or finding us good speakers, but.
Karen Ottoni, Hyperledger: The agenda is something that is open for anyone to contribute to So if you have a topic that you want to discuss something that you think should be explored, as part of this group.
Karen Ottoni, Hyperledger: Now you are welcome to to to propose that i'm you know by adding it to the agenda on the wiki page that they've been shares out or or proposing it on the mailing list, for example.
Karen Ottoni, Hyperledger: i'm in order to technically like officially joined the Group you you shouldn't subscribe to the mailing list it's how we send out communications about meetings or some of these discussions and and proposals of.
Karen Ottoni, Hyperledger: Activities or presentations so i'll post that in the chat in a second in case you haven't done that, we also have a page on our wiki.
Karen Ottoni, Hyperledger: This is where you'll find an overview of the capital markets, special interest group and.
Karen Ottoni, Hyperledger: The meeting notes and agendas, where the recordings will be added for meeting so if you miss a meeting all meetings a hyper ledger are recorded so that anyone can participate from even outside of their you know normal time zones.
Karen Ottoni, Hyperledger: But in order to accommodate the global nature of our Community we've actually shifted this meeting, which used to be bi weekly at this time.
Karen Ottoni, Hyperledger: This is now going to be monthly at this time and we've replaced the other bi weekly with an APEC session of this meeting and i'm forgetting now what time that happens it's a it's a Wednesday nights on the east coast.
Karen Ottoni, Hyperledger: But i'll share the calendar, so you can add.
Karen Ottoni, Hyperledger: This meeting or that meeting.
Karen Ottoni, Hyperledger: On to your calendars and attend those you know that one will focus more on all the different things happening capital markets in Asia and there's a lot going on there, and so.
Karen Ottoni, Hyperledger: And it's hard for those participants to join here so um so we've we've added another time to the agenda that we have, and in this segue and I think that's going to be.
Karen Ottoni, Hyperledger: a really great way to bring get more people involved in the group.
Vipin Bharathan: it's a 10pm 10pm on Wednesdays, which means it is going to be 1130 on in this, you know daylight savings time time frame on 7:30am the next day in Hong Kong.
Vipin Bharathan: And 8:30am Indian standard time so that from then awkward from Indian standard time on I think all the people who are east of that.
Vipin Bharathan: could attend us that meeting, but you know Europeans probably cannot because it's going to be in the middle of the night or early morning so anyway, we do have this meeting, which is the regular time.
Vipin Bharathan: So please continue Karen.
Vipin Bharathan: If you have anything more to add um.
Karen Ottoni, Hyperledger: No, I think you know really this group is what you all make of it um you know, we have, for example, sandy is going to talk soon about an idea, you know, an activity for this group to engage in.
Karen Ottoni, Hyperledger: On on the CBC topic, and so you know we're here to knowledge share and learn from each other, and you know help all of you, and in the projects and work that you're doing.
Karen Ottoni, Hyperledger: You know, learn from each other and and and share what you're what you're working on as well, and so are you welcome all your participation this year.
Oh.
Vipin Bharathan: thanks for that Karen and.
Vipin Bharathan: I am going to.
Vipin Bharathan: call on a couple of people to kick it off.
Vipin Bharathan: But before that I want to share one slide or two.
Vipin Bharathan: That talk about.
Vipin Bharathan: The various ways in which you can interact.
Vipin Bharathan: There is somebody on chat here okay yeah that's Karen join the mailing list.
Vipin Bharathan: So if I want to share my screen and talk about the you know.
Vipin Bharathan: I am.
Vipin Bharathan: operating on a laptop computer so it's difficult for me to interact multi dimensionally, but I can try to share the screen and.
Vipin Bharathan: Can you see.
Vipin Bharathan: The screen.
it's a.
Vipin Bharathan: it's now full screen.
Vipin Bharathan: So it has regular calls.
Vipin Bharathan: wiki rocket chat email lists projects, you know, which is where we grew up all our projects together, and then we have the sub groups which are the the two sub groups that we have today are the mortgage subgroup and the.
Vipin Bharathan: The insurance subgroup and then we have labs so.
Vipin Bharathan: I will.
Vipin Bharathan: i'll just briefly display what we have gone through from last year of this CBC the dx CD.
Vipin Bharathan: As you know, has been.
Vipin Bharathan: there's been problems with the city, but we'll get to more of that detail, because this is what's going to happen when you have.
Vipin Bharathan: projects that are going live there will be problems with projects, and then we do post-mortems and try to figure out how we can fix them or how learn from these mishaps then financial market infrastructure which.
Vipin Bharathan: Actually automation of finance show market infrastructure, which was presented by money docking station.
Vipin Bharathan: Debt capital markets, specific corner of it.
Vipin Bharathan: which was warehouse lending.
Vipin Bharathan: Then we had regulation law public blockchain from the Swiss standards from ISO 200 to two and.
Vipin Bharathan: Two presentations on mls.
Vipin Bharathan: So this year's projects consists of an effort day which i'll go into later, and then a solution, you know CBD sees various views on CBC and sandy is going to talk about the Fed feedback, which is second one, and then green bonds which there's been much activity on that.
and
Vipin Bharathan: we're going to have two presentations one in Hong Kong on the big is green bonds and here money will set up a talk on the green bonds that he has actually created it's, not even a plc.
Vipin Bharathan: And then of course the.
Vipin Bharathan: Problem of putting any.
Vipin Bharathan: Serious system out.
Vipin Bharathan: consists of identity organization security standards interoperable being regulation.
Vipin Bharathan: And then, of course, as a big die session.
Vipin Bharathan: The one thing that is not here, which is about.
Vipin Bharathan: certain problems and CBD sees one of them is the.
Vipin Bharathan: offline us and Stefan and send me a note this morning and actually we did have some talk on that.
Vipin Bharathan: topic, one is a smart card, a solution for offline usage and another one is crypto banknotes, which is a.
Vipin Bharathan: amount amalgam of regular bank nodes and crypto crypto in the sense of cryptography.
Vipin Bharathan: So CBD sees can be implemented with that and that can allow offline usage, maybe Stefan will step in in a moment after us sandy available to talk about that, and of course everybody is welcome to chime in i'm going to stop the share right now, but you know.
Vipin Bharathan: let's engage and let's.
Vipin Bharathan: Go go forth.
Vipin Bharathan: So sandy, could you please.
Vipin Bharathan: Talk about this.
Sandy Aggarwal: yeah hey weapon, thank you very much.
Sandy Aggarwal: Thank you Karen, so I think, let me actually just.
Sandy Aggarwal: Until we get here, well, first of all Hello.
Sandy Aggarwal: Good morning, everybody you guys can hear me okay right.
Vipin Bharathan: Yes.
Sandy Aggarwal: Okay, very good so Robin Thank you very much for helping with starting the sun, so what i'll basically just tie this back into the really excellent document article you had actually wouldn't when in forbes.
Sandy Aggarwal: Basically, as a response to the CDC paper that came out and essentially my suggestion here was that.
Sandy Aggarwal: there's a lot of moving parts and the CDC worldwide now is be I mean of course you've been obviously leading space very actively i've actually been a bit of a slight an active participant but i'll definitely love to get more involved in this and.
Sandy Aggarwal: As a way to do this, I was thinking we could you know startup this joint response in Georgia analysis.
Sandy Aggarwal: And I think it's David automation that I think this will be getting this is actually putting pricing that they hadn't fully asked.
Sandy Aggarwal: any specific groups, some day obviously just on top of the Fed they just illustrating response from pretty much everybody, and you know there's going to be a long process, but.
Sandy Aggarwal: i'm not sure if everybody had a chance to look at the wiki page and have shared here on this computer of mine but i'm looking at the wiki page right now.
Sandy Aggarwal: So what help have Karen we've actually set up a wiki page under the CBC section, the wiki section on a wiki and, if you please look at the email that we sent yesterday.
Sandy Aggarwal: you'll see the link for that and underneath the main wiki page there's basically 22 courses in total, that the Fed is actually asking us to respond.
Sandy Aggarwal: And the thought process here was that, because each one of these coaches is pretty much like an essay in itself, so we can actually have a sub page.
Sandy Aggarwal: As a response to each one of them, and then we can all chime in on on the economist's or the way, so please meetings.
Sandy Aggarwal: and probably once we have gathered decent lot of interest and and you know proper response from different people, we can actually discuss these.
Sandy Aggarwal: In one of those sub topics as weapon is heading these meetings, so we can bring these things up, you can basically say.
Sandy Aggarwal: Like any for any of the courses were which we have enough comments back on we can bring those customers up in these discussion boards and we can talk about the back and forth on that.
Sandy Aggarwal: i'm going to take a pause there within what do you think.
Vipin Bharathan: it's great to be engaging on this 22 questions in different topics and.
Vipin Bharathan: If Stefan.
Vipin Bharathan: wants to say something about the offline usage.
Vipin Bharathan: That will be later, but that is, I believe, part of one of the questions.
Vipin Bharathan: I did.
Stéphane Mouy: i'm happy to to to engage on that now Sean minutes.
Vipin Bharathan: yeah you know, in a in a minute because.
Vipin Bharathan: I wanted to set the scene for a minute, what is the fact that Fred has come back at such a late date when things are moving everywhere else.
Vipin Bharathan: In a much more advanced stage and also they haven't provided the paper.
Vipin Bharathan: That they had promised on the technical metrics which was supposed to come out of.
Vipin Bharathan: me MIT and Fred Boston.
Vipin Bharathan: Which is in fact in charge of payments so if you note there are 12 fed.
Vipin Bharathan: centers right each Center is responsible for a particular aspect, for example, New York is responsible.
Vipin Bharathan: For open market operations, which is a way of saying they intervene in the markets for repose and so on.
Vipin Bharathan: But and the Boston fed is taking the lead on payments so they are supposed to come up with this this paper at this paper technical paper on experimentation, which was promised last year in June, but it has still not hit the hit us.
Vipin Bharathan: In terms of other.
Vipin Bharathan: CBC projects around the world and in terms of our own interaction with them.
Vipin Bharathan: We had a meeting with a you know, there was a the cgi interoperability of CBD fees.
Vipin Bharathan: meeting yesterday, and one of the participants is a fed associate director named David wells.
Vipin Bharathan: Who is also part about almost mostly responsible for that print paper.
Vipin Bharathan: So I, it was a little embarrassing I didn't want to bring it up, because I had roundly criticized the paper, so I did not say anything about it.
Vipin Bharathan: But.
Vipin Bharathan: Remember, we have an in into those people who are at the height at the top of the.
Vipin Bharathan: fed when they come to addressing those 22 questions.
Vipin Bharathan: And I didn't even ask him the question about when will the technical paper be available, because that was asked by many participants on the Q amp a we did not have much time to go through all that but anyway.
Vipin Bharathan: let's let's not dwell on the past we're going to talk about the future and i'm hopeful that.
Vipin Bharathan: There is a qualitative difference between a CBC that is put out by an open.
Vipin Bharathan: Economy compared to a CBC paper, I mean CBC itself put out by certain other.
Vipin Bharathan: Big economies.
Vipin Bharathan: This is a very much highlighted in the.
Vipin Bharathan: discussion yesterday, so I think without.
Vipin Bharathan: Going further on it, the most cash like aspect of CBD sees would be offline access and Stefan is going to tell us what he he wrote on this particular topic in linkedin which came up in my feed this morning.
Vipin Bharathan: And also, of course, he communicated to me personally, but.
Stéphane Mouy: i'm happy to share it with the rest of the team they've been Hello everybody, I think this is the first time i'm taking part in this group, in fact I.
Stéphane Mouy: have known beeping for a few years ago, used to be colleagues a few years ago, and I have now contractor and i'm an external consultant I work for i'm a contractor, the European Commission, so I have a very firm.
Stéphane Mouy: European background, so to speak, and i'm quite interested in the so called he is to development, with which is centered on the digital identity wallets.
Stéphane Mouy: This is not really related to the topic of CBC I mean there's outside of that.
Stéphane Mouy: managed by the ECB European some bank, there is a digital year digital year project which i'm really not really involved in but i'm much more aware of the digital wallet proposal that is being put together.
Stéphane Mouy: And, as mentioned, as mentioned by within there is there is an interesting feature in that while I did that it has to support the offline mode.
Stéphane Mouy: And there is there is a question as to what Does that imply and whether in fact it's technologically neutral or not, and I think we have been considering this as an arena short paper which i'm very happy to share with the rest of the team now I mean they say it's a it's a kind of.
Stéphane Mouy: You know it's not for the super specialist it's meant to be over paper aiming at a wider audience, so you won't find a lot of technical information on it, but it.
Stéphane Mouy: It covers hopefully a fair amount of ground we did a we also did a previous paper on why the payment use cases critical for the digital identity wallet which, which is also.
Stéphane Mouy: available so.
Stéphane Mouy: On the severity of seed self I mean I I have again, you know my knowledge is is much more limited, I certainly do have a lot of interest in what's happening in China because they seem to be miles ahead of the rest in this respect, I accept that.
Stéphane Mouy: They are probably making a number of changes that are more or made a number of taken a number of options that would not be necessarily.
Stéphane Mouy: relatable to everybody, especially when it comes to surveillance and we say privacy issues so it's very likely, but still it's an interesting experiment it's the first full fledge.
Stéphane Mouy: Massive massive massively massively deployed project I don't know if you've seen the sun bank of China released information last week, saying that the APP had been downloaded by I think they had 260 million users, which is.
Stéphane Mouy: You know one fifth of the of the Chinese population it's hard to believe that it's you know that's what they're saying.
Stéphane Mouy: And, and it is supposed to work offline as well, which, of course, would be a lot very interesting unfortunately there is not that much information available I don't know if you've discussed this in previous.
Stéphane Mouy: group meetings that would be very interesting for me to know and one last comment I would say, because I was, I was puzzled by the one of the.
Stéphane Mouy: titles that you, you mentioned, I presumed people are aware of the House of the Lord in the UK is a hostile Lord report on CBC, which is quite critical of CBC actually and.
Stéphane Mouy: it's titled sandbank digital currency solution in search of a problem question mark so um that's about it really I don't know.
Stéphane Mouy: What else, I can say something.
Vipin Bharathan: about the.
Vipin Bharathan: couple of.
Vipin Bharathan: Comments one is about the Chinese.
Vipin Bharathan: solution we have access to the patrons less which are helpfully compiled by digital.
Vipin Bharathan: Commerce guys in Washington, headed by Barry and I had looked.
Vipin Bharathan: In detail, like all of those.
Vipin Bharathan: patterns.
Vipin Bharathan: More than 80 patents.
Vipin Bharathan: About 10 of them covering blockchain so when people say Chinese etc, and why does not use.
Vipin Bharathan: it's not use blockchain that's that's a problem, the other is.
Vipin Bharathan: Rich actor in who has written a book called a cashless and he claims he lives in Shanghai he claims that the Chinese have adopted very simple PCs which is.
Vipin Bharathan: The.
Vipin Bharathan: team, etc, etc, and why should most.
Vipin Bharathan: look like cash with privacy features and so on, so all these people will keep talking about surveillance of Chinese of the Chinese solution.
Vipin Bharathan: are in fact ignorant of the actual mechanics of it so yeah, especially for smaller value payments.
Vipin Bharathan: It seems like it permits offline usage so they're implementing using tiered wallet which means like you can hold up to let's say.
Vipin Bharathan: 3000 remember you know I don't know the exact numbers but there there's something saying you cannot hold up to a certain amount and transact really peer to peer.
Vipin Bharathan: Without being surveilled just like cash, as you get into larger and larger amounts the kyc and the controls increase our are.
Vipin Bharathan: dialed up.
Vipin Bharathan: So when you want to.
Vipin Bharathan: guys for huge amounts then or hold huge amounts, then the level of surveillance is much more, of course.
Stéphane Mouy: yeah that's I mean that's not unreasonable as as as a matter of principle, I mean it's it depends, where you where the thresholds are, of course, but in principle, there is, I think nobody can really disagree with that right, I would argue.
Vipin Bharathan: Well, one of the problems that i've been coming up.
Vipin Bharathan: With my identity had is that the measures that have been.
Vipin Bharathan: flowing through FF def are not exactly.
Vipin Bharathan: You know there are problems with implementing those measures because.
Vipin Bharathan: You can't say that technology and regulation have nothing to do with each other, you cannot create a regime of regulation.
Vipin Bharathan: That cannot be implemented at lower costs or in a short period of time, because if you do that, then people are just going to take a box saying Oh, we have done this we've done this we've done this and actually they have actually only done it in.
Vipin Bharathan: As a box ticking exercise rather than in reality, so there has to be some.
Vipin Bharathan: You know, push back against this kind of a regulatory regime but that's a separate topic now i'm going to.
Vipin Bharathan: skip ahead to another thing and and we can talk about this at length in a another meeting Stefan about offline and sandy, of course, we will engage with that CDC.
Vipin Bharathan: response I may even privately respond, because even you can actually respond as individuals as well, in addition to a group.
response.
Vipin Bharathan: So.
Vipin Bharathan: This you know.
Vipin Bharathan: it's 22 questions, some of them are really basic anyway coming back.
Vipin Bharathan: There are two other things I, we should talk about.
Vipin Bharathan: One is, of course.
Vipin Bharathan: The Green bonds which we have here in the form, you know, there are two people here who can talk a little bit about it, one of them is money, of course, the.
Vipin Bharathan: acme.
Vipin Bharathan: You know of actual.
Vipin Bharathan: real solutions.
Vipin Bharathan: I mean money single handedly.
Vipin Bharathan: created a possible solution from although from his older.
Vipin Bharathan: All the product, which was deployed in big banks.
Vipin Bharathan: But used quarter and then you know, then we wrote this paper on CBC but he is now involved in to.
Vipin Bharathan: Two projects.
Vipin Bharathan: I think one is the estimate project, the other is the.
Vipin Bharathan: The Green bond, which is going to present later on our one of our so money do you want to say anything about this.
Mani Pillai: yeah sure um hi everybody, this is i'm manipulate from OTC digital I mean associated with a weapon, and we have done several works together one of them.
Mani Pillai: A CBC White Paper and another one is actually we did a project on hyper ledger as a prototype we actually implement this etc.
Mani Pillai: And we open sourced it it's available for anyone to download and test it out and actually it's be used from the climate see group for their own.
Mani Pillai: Use of for the for the carbon credits so that's the background, but the largest factor, side by side on to the CBC there's a much bigger initiatives happening in the marketplace, which is a regulated digital assets everything from you know private equity to bonds to.
Mani Pillai: structure products there's a lot of initiatives in the marketplace by the Bank by the banks, and to that extent the green bond is is farmer is part of that initiative.
Mani Pillai: The important thing is that is now the regulators have started at least putting together frameworks, they have some sand boxes and also now I put out a.
Mani Pillai: link to to asthma, which is now asking for input from in a gap or market participants, as to how would they regulate and new digital ledger technology, a K regulated.
Mani Pillai: dlc platforms for digital assets, and this is something that we are very keen on responding to if anyone's interested, you know happy to collaborate, although the timeframe is very short it's my first week of March.
Mani Pillai: So we might have to do it offline if anyone is interested they see talk to us to me all the women.
Mani Pillai: On the on the green bonds, yes, the intention is for us to look at the entire life cycle of a she wants this purely from the institutional side of things.
Mani Pillai: on how banks would source and how they will distribute and what are the challenges in in bringing privacy features and at the same time.
Mani Pillai: enabling a regulatory compliant infrastructure and also linking to.
Mani Pillai: Stable coins and CBD sees as they emerge.
Mani Pillai: Obviously, the initial interest is on sable coins, because we don't have a in our major CBC up and running, but the intention is that is these bonds, whether it is capped corporate bonds or green bonds would then be actually be.
Mani Pillai: settled in real time using stable coin so CBC so it's all interrelated, so you know, this is something that's going to be interesting topic this year as there's a lot of initiatives from the industry and would like to collaborate and discuss further.
Vipin Bharathan: Thank you, money.
Vipin Bharathan: next meeting of the.
Vipin Bharathan: Of the same thing will happen in they apac.
Vipin Bharathan: region.
Vipin Bharathan: Two weeks from today at 10pm.
Vipin Bharathan: and David row Francis and others have are going to connect with.
let's say.
Vipin Bharathan: The big guys we're also working on.
Vipin Bharathan: Green bonds.
Vipin Bharathan: So.
Vipin Bharathan: I want to give an update yeah.
Vipin Bharathan: Go ahead, David.
David Rowe-Francis: hi and thank famous and just have to bake just like to read, we circle back to something you mentioned regarding.
David Rowe-Francis: The CBD DC So yes, we are looking over here in Asia, Hong Kong to pick up with them with with BP is, we have an initial meeting with them on this Friday myself and Julian Julian Gordon.
David Rowe-Francis: And we were initially picking up with Marcel who's been running the genesis protocol program for be is here in Hong Kong, on behalf of the is innovative hopes.
David Rowe-Francis: He will be rolling out from that from that program by the end of this month, so we are also when we speak to him on Friday, we do have an alternative, and it will probably be his boss.
David Rowe-Francis: Who will be able to do the presentation for us and we're thinking about a presentation in.
David Rowe-Francis: February or March and as whipping you mentioned earlier, whatever presentation we pulled together, we will make sure that it is recorded and therefore accessible for people who will not be in this time in this time zone.
David Rowe-Francis: What we will also do before, that is, we will seek some questions, maybe from this from your sake, as well as your other things which we will put will put to put together and we will share with a bs in advance of time and hopefully we'll be able to incorporate those answers into the presentation.
David Rowe-Francis: So if anybody if anybody has some specifics that they wanted to talk about in relation to to genesis to be is a genesis project.
David Rowe-Francis: or he or she probably would have seen, I think I shared today, the latest link from be is whether spoken about their new agenda.
David Rowe-Francis: For 2022 and you'll see that they've got genesis to this will be being rolled out this year, as well as another project so we're very happy to put any questions to them on our behalf.
Vipin Bharathan: Wonderful.
Vipin Bharathan: So we move on from there, because we have a lot of ground to cover one of the.
David Rowe-Francis: Things could it.
Vipin Bharathan: yeah.
David Rowe-Francis: Can I just say I came out as a couple of distilled speak very quickly and then and then album.
Vipin Bharathan: yeah sure.
David Rowe-Francis: it's quite late here.
David Rowe-Francis: But just in relation to.
David Rowe-Francis: The very good work that Karen yourself and others have been doing in relation to CBD sees and you and I were both lucky that we prospectively had.
David Rowe-Francis: moderated sessions, with people from from based on that and just simulation to the UK piece, and that parliamentary note.
David Rowe-Francis: Which while so i'd say the comments that it is anti.
David Rowe-Francis: Well, it says the problem statement they saw no reliable use case at the moment for CBD say he's in that sense, they were talking about retail CBD sees as opposed to wholesale CBD sees.
David Rowe-Francis: And one of the things I would say about that parliamentary paper is that I would recommend anybody to read through the some of the some notes and data and because it's probably not the best as I would say, so I think they'd be misinformed.
David Rowe-Francis: For my for myself about reading some of those papers and data sets in relation to the length of questioning that they.
David Rowe-Francis: Did for the for the British public information to pulling that paper together, you know only interviewing 1500 people and then draw conclusions from that I think is quite difficult.
David Rowe-Francis: And just simulation to hk may over here, we also have a paper come out looking for feedback there's only seven questions.
David Rowe-Francis: as it relates to stable client and it also technically touches on cryptocurrency and less less then see what he says, so I would probably guide that.
David Rowe-Francis: Looking at the 22 questions i've looked at the Fed to pay and the seven questions from hk there are some overlaps and may be working together one paper but we're responsible one paper we can pull together their responses for.
David Rowe-Francis: For maybe two similar there's a questionnaire coming out from as as well, so be more than happy that I think we can have some cross dissemination.
David Rowe-Francis: Of when lots of organizations are putting out these papers or central banks are putting out these papers regarding CBD sees and I do think if we can.
David Rowe-Francis: share our conclusions our answers our questions and we might be able to say here's when we made earlier and do and share share that across.
Vipin Bharathan: Well, talk about that particular aspect like.
Vipin Bharathan: A solution looking for a problem.
Vipin Bharathan: That has already been that phrase has already been used by two Members of the Fed calls and waller.
Vipin Bharathan: who had made speeches against CBC and their argument is table coins will fill the void, I know that many others in this group also feel that same way, but this is a private currency deal and.
Vipin Bharathan: The Cato Institute has also come out against the Fed paper saying that simply retail CBD is unless non as necessary, because the private stable going to take care of it, but in the end.
Vipin Bharathan: They do say you got to have insurance with the Fed or a narrow.
Vipin Bharathan: Narrow bank so.
Vipin Bharathan: Ordinary citizens are not allowed to have a digital representation of cash, which is the most secure forms but instead will rely on something that is.
Vipin Bharathan: issued by private agencies, who will then all have that that.
Vipin Bharathan: luxury of having the Fed.
Vipin Bharathan: Or the central government agencies.
Vipin Bharathan: ensure their holdings it doesn't make sense.
Vipin Bharathan: cash is already there and we need digital equivalent of cash that's my view anyway.
Vipin Bharathan: And you know a lot of people push back against it but they're all coming from private interests, who are celebrating private cash private issuance of money which is happening today all banks issue.
Vipin Bharathan: private money, but they are regulated, and they are controlled, you cannot have you know par convertibility to.
Vipin Bharathan: Other forms of Central Bank digital currency from money that is generated in the private sphere, without having controls that's you know again it's my view, but I think it's rooted in reason not just you know, based on my private.
Vipin Bharathan: game, you know i'm not arguing for for it for private game anyway, going back to our program there are.
Vipin Bharathan: About 14 minutes left and one of the most important.
Vipin Bharathan: initiatives that we have started.
Vipin Bharathan: Which is to create a framework for generating.
Vipin Bharathan: nfc is.
Vipin Bharathan: it's called nefertiti.
Vipin Bharathan: And the beauty of this is it is going to directly address some of the criticisms.
Vipin Bharathan: of web three, which is you know meant to be this whole decentralized paradigm, but it's not as revealed by moxie and others, and of course there's a lot of debate going on.
Vipin Bharathan: moxie.
Vipin Bharathan: And o'reilly who coined the term web to have come out against the current implementations of web three criticizing mostly the centralized nature of most of those.
Vipin Bharathan: Most of those solutions, meaning if you rely on in fewer and alchemy and open see these are the only three thing things that you need and and those are highly centralized and open see in fact had a breach just last week.
Vipin Bharathan: or this week so.
Vipin Bharathan: yeah so that you know this kind of stuff where you're pulling the wool over people's eyes so nefertiti is an effort to address some of these with actual core with actual solutions we are going to generate an fps just like.
Vipin Bharathan: You know in multiple platforms.
Vipin Bharathan: And several people have joined together on this effort, and probably it will go further than inequities but anyway, I think, Andrea who's on the call and Alfonso where we're also people who talk with me and we launched this effort, maybe about two months ago, but I wrote the.
Vipin Bharathan: nfp proposal and it has been accepted into hyper ledger labs as nefertiti and.
Vipin Bharathan: Alfonso and or Andrea can comment more on that.
Vipin Bharathan: For about five minutes, and then I want to ask mark liberality who's also on the call to talk a little bit about his efforts.
Vipin Bharathan: So Andrea or and or Alfonso you want to respond if one of you do i'd be glad to.
Alfonso Govela: Go ahead and.
Go ahead.
Andrea Frosinini: I was saying that I leave it on to you because i'm with my kids right back from school, so I have very limited let's see speaking availability.
Andrea Frosinini: Okay Davies gone and phone, so please.
Alfonso Govela: Okay i'll be.
Alfonso Govela: very, very brief.
Alfonso Govela: I might want to have a law and part of the hyper ledger Latin America regional chapter and most interested to work in this project of.
Alfonso Govela: An fft which would be, what I find most most most interesting is answering with real solutions, the main criticism, again, where we with the issue of central research.
Alfonso Govela: assistant just pointed out correctly, if you have three gatekeepers to that part of the decentralized.
Alfonso Govela: centralizing again okay that's that's what I want to say, and all of you are welcome and invited to to join our working with i'm the lightest and it has been accepted as a project for hyper ledger that's Thank you.
Sandy Aggarwal: hey fans out weapon.
Sandy Aggarwal: Can I just take dancing that effect up coincidentally we're also working on like within the media and entertainment said we're working on a blockchain gaming.
Sandy Aggarwal: side of things, so one thing i'm also going to lead us to plot to gaming aspect, and this is also a very interesting topic or in that area.
Sandy Aggarwal: So how do you will not just the central division, but but also how do you really captive context, and so, so I like to reach out to both you and the two Alfonso weapon, I definitely want to catch up on that feels good.
Vipin Bharathan: And to know Okay, so we.
Vipin Bharathan: You know, we could.
Vipin Bharathan: spend our whole session on this, but mark is here to talk about his efforts in.
Vipin Bharathan: a slightly different sphere but also related So this is the whole enchilada we're talking about not you know the silos see me disease nfp is.
Vipin Bharathan: Everything has to fit into a.
Vipin Bharathan: economy.
Vipin Bharathan: And, which is being globalized.
Vipin Bharathan: Mark please.
Marc Liberati: No, thank you, I mean actually on an empty discussion we had looked a bit on this is part of our digital currency global initiative.
Marc Liberati: Policy working group that were we worked on together, but our focus i've been working on mostly is consumer protection competition in dispute resolution and we took the view more from the consumer protection standpoint and really seeing.
Marc Liberati: The way it's being it has analogies to sort of collateralized debt instruments.
Marc Liberati: As and those can then be made into fungible securities that would then be the fungible side of the tokens.
Marc Liberati: So that was one aspect that we had looked about from the consumer protection standpoint and how you can verify from the consumer what those underlying assets those unique assets that are sort of then.
Marc Liberati: claimed by the nfp also, I think, from from a legal background I think there's a little lot of interesting developments on the legality of fts of physical assets when thinking around real property, but also the potential upside this could bring to.
Marc Liberati: A very.
Marc Liberati: More digitized.
Marc Liberati: sense of property, accounting for property.
Marc Liberati: tax collection public policy, so there is a lot of I think benefits beyond jpg sitting on centralized servers that are being pointed to.
Marc Liberati: I just wanted to know that but it's a bit off topic, maybe, and then.
Marc Liberati: I think one of the interesting use case they recently saw was also on the the climate action sig on using NF Ts as a way to have climate certificates as part of carbon markets because each project.
Marc Liberati: hat is unique and that the uniqueness of you have an empty is allows for good traceability to those projects and verifying the carbon offset plans that they're being made so.
Marc Liberati: That was sort of the.
Marc Liberati: And then, of course, on the digital currency global initiative working group my partner is focusing on CBC we're actually also reviewing.
Marc Liberati: The recent papers that have been issued in to incorporate that into our next iteration of the papers myself working on crypto for focusing on crypto and stable coins.
Marc Liberati: Very much also taking the the exact debates that you had raised and how we can then think around those in optimizing for consumer protection.
Marc Liberati: Competitive markets that are built around interoperable standards and, of course, then how those inner playing with dispute resolution models and CBC is as one.
Marc Liberati: as well, so.
Marc Liberati: Those are my points Thank you over.
Vipin Bharathan: One of the most important things you brought up with them.
Vipin Bharathan: Come market in carbon markets right and that's why we are talking about it here and capital markets, you might say, what does the nfp is epic do with capital markets, you can say that nfl, these are the most decent life form of creation and then, once you.
Vipin Bharathan: Make it fungible by using some kind of a intermediate steps for making them look alike, like in the case of meds or in the case of so many other kinds of debt, which are then.
Vipin Bharathan: thrown off into a.
Vipin Bharathan: General fungible bond.
Vipin Bharathan: that's the reason why we are interested anyway, I have here also guy and several others who are involved in this.
Vipin Bharathan: sort of a social view on things and guys my main guy.
Vipin Bharathan: When it comes to that.
Vipin Bharathan: And i've been reading, you know his his work and I just wanted him to make a couple of remarks because we are quickly running out of time.
Guy Hochstetler: yeah sure thanks appreciate that.
Guy Hochstetler: yeah i'm trying to catch up your sort of listening you guys have done a lot of work all come with subject matter expertise in capital markets that exceed mine but.
Guy Hochstetler: I kind of look at these things holistically and.
Guy Hochstetler: I tend to lean towards social benefits.
Guy Hochstetler: You know, human benefits I don't know why I somehow I just ended up in that direction.
Guy Hochstetler: So i'm interested in the green bonds thing, but I just want to listen to the CBC discussion and I wondered It just seems like overall, not just here but, overall Community kind of this just so many papers coming out some for some against but.
Guy Hochstetler: I wondered if you looked at a couple aspects and maybe this is a question to ask so so it's an it depends on the market, you know what what's needed in a particular market within.
Guy Hochstetler: You know, a specific country what what are they satisfied with their CDC and I also about 100 in terms of the US.
Guy Hochstetler: Which is very conservative and I I just question the Fed doesn't feel empowered to do much except.
Guy Hochstetler: Maybe explore and write a lot of papers, I think they look to the Congress to force them to take any action.
Guy Hochstetler: But it seems like the best way, instead of beyond papers and even PFC is is is to run pilots that in the actually engages people, because then you will learn a lot.
Guy Hochstetler: You know and that's hard to do, because the case a lot of control, but maybe that's a question to add into this is will Cook, how can we do pilots who's going to do a pilot that actually engages the public within a restricted area just to learn something inside Those are just some time.
Vipin Bharathan: In fact, number question number 22 is precisely about that.
Vipin Bharathan: What I miss that back.
Vipin Bharathan: In these questions, so you can respond yourself to question number 22 and say that because.
Vipin Bharathan: Okay, this is supposed to be a public comment period and anyone can answer any one of those questions, not all of them.
Vipin Bharathan: yeah you can actually.
Vipin Bharathan: put that in right now.
In the Fed.
Vipin Bharathan: know.
Guy Hochstetler: What that's right they opened it up to public perfect.
Vipin Bharathan: Yes, so that's why you have to engage.
Vipin Bharathan: Instead of you know, I mean we all have our views and.
opinions.
Vipin Bharathan: But real work engagement.
Vipin Bharathan: and presenting them.
Vipin Bharathan: Is what this group is all about.
Vipin Bharathan: it's not represent one person's view.
Vipin Bharathan: I hope it doesn't I hope we are more open than most.
Vipin Bharathan: But, obviously we do fall into the 8020 rule that 80% of the worker is done by 20% or less of people.
Vipin Bharathan: So, in that sense, there is that, but thank you all for showing up because.
Vipin Bharathan: So we have laid out a plan for the rest of the year and, obviously, we will continue to work on some of them, some of them actual actual output technical stuff but the relationship between technology and regulation and policy.
Vipin Bharathan: When people say Oh, this is all policy stuff we don't have anything to do with it.
Vipin Bharathan: I tend to disagree, because without technical capabilities, you cannot implement policy you want to control the size of the wallet is technology, you want to control what is possible through a wallet is technology so.
Vipin Bharathan: Technology has to be subservient in a certain sense to these larger societal concerns, but without technological capability, you cannot.
Vipin Bharathan: create a policy consideration that cannot be implemented, I mean you can come up with whatever you want, but you have to have a way of actually putting it in production at scale without hurting anybody.
Vipin Bharathan: that's a.
Vipin Bharathan: that's a tough.
Vipin Bharathan: topic, and we need to open our.
Vipin Bharathan: our minds, our gates mental gates to these.
Vipin Bharathan: You know, to each other, whether we are in technology or other other fields, so with that.
Vipin Bharathan: I thank you.
Vipin Bharathan: And please do not hesitate to interact on email.
Vipin Bharathan: or on the wiki or on rocket chat.
Vipin Bharathan: All of these are open.
Vipin Bharathan: No one's going to send for you.
Sandy Aggarwal: X weapon hey wait wait a question on the gaming side which started to experiment more with this code.
Sandy Aggarwal: So I found that to be very helpful so like also looks in my offline conversation with daniella she was all seeing like day they might be experimenting with this talk to so much of is a lot of people actually really using chat here.
Vipin Bharathan: been.
Sandy Aggarwal: A lot of people using rocket chat.
Sandy Aggarwal: for regular tap or.
Vipin Bharathan: Well, I mean rocket chat is a you know.
Karen Ottoni, Hyperledger: It depends on the group sandy um it's mostly used by the projects more than the cigs and what there is currently a chat Task Force.
Karen Ottoni, Hyperledger: As a technical steering committee that's evaluating the tools um and one of which is being considered as a discord so i'm there it hasn't like.
Karen Ottoni, Hyperledger: The task, or should be wrapping up soon um so so when when there is any sort of decision around that we will notify all the groups for sure sure yeah.
Sandy Aggarwal: yeah no I agree to, and then I think I think we've been finding this good luck with getting set to be very helpful, obviously it lends itself much you know clearly and much more cleaner way for chatting yeah that takes.
Vipin Bharathan: Another thing is somebody off whether they're they can access the earlier recording for meetings I wanted to.
Vipin Bharathan: I want to say that i've been making some changes they're using the tools available in confluence to surface what was said in the meetings it's a very simple thing and i'm asking for volunteers.
Vipin Bharathan: To do this, and i've already done that, for the full few meetings, all you need to do to set up a property page in property in the meeting and.
Vipin Bharathan: layout the main property and that will then surface in the list of meetings and so instead of just drilling down to every meeting you can see what what a meeting is about by just looking at them if i've already started that process, and I think I want to start that process also for.
Vipin Bharathan: For the project.
Vipin Bharathan: So I tried to.
Vipin Bharathan: Talk about exactly what is needed there.
Vipin Bharathan: Thank you all for coming in four minutes past the hour.
Vipin Bharathan: and
Vipin Bharathan: i'm unless anyone else has anything to say on going to close the meeting so.
Vipin Bharathan: Does anyone else, want to say anything.
Sandy Aggarwal: That take you up i'll reach out to you offline about the iniquity project there's definitely a lot of interest in that.
Sandy Aggarwal: love to have you in but only the game exciting.
Vipin Bharathan: yeah sure I mean.
Vipin Bharathan: Now 40 will not be about specific files.
Sandy Aggarwal: Of course, is this good.
Sandy Aggarwal: Thank you.
Vipin Bharathan: guys thanks again and closing the call.