Ry Jones: Good morning Tracy.
Tracy Kuhrt: How are you.
Ry Jones: i'm doing well, how are you doing.
Tracy Kuhrt: Doing okay.
Tracy Kuhrt: wondering how many people will end up getting today.
Ry Jones: that's a good question.
Ry Jones: I.
Tracy Kuhrt: was wondering whether we should have canceled this one, two or not, since people are seem to still be out this week we'll find out.
Ry Jones: Well we've already not had two meetings.
Tracy Kuhrt: Yet.
Ry Jones: So i'd really rather not so i'm going to pause recording.
Tracy Kuhrt: All right, Happy New Year everyone, welcome to our first meeting of 2022.
Tracy Kuhrt: This year is a good year for assault.
Tracy Kuhrt: As you all know.
Tracy Kuhrt: To be part of this meeting, you have to abide by the antitrust policy notice, which is being displayed on the screen, as well as the code of conduct, and neither of these things are new to anybody on this call, as you've all been on this call before so with that.
Tracy Kuhrt: We have the standard announcement, which is def weekly newsletter that goes out tomorrow, so if there's anything that you would like to add that, please feel free dad at the wiki page add a comment or.
Tracy Kuhrt: Just all let anybody know that you want something add it to that and we can get that information at it.
Tracy Kuhrt: We did get to quarterly reports in this time, one for ursa and when for base to when I checked this morning we were under half review for those for both of those so.
Tracy Kuhrt: If you haven't had an opportunity to look at those please do so, I did not see any outstanding questions from either the projects or from anybody in the TC but if there are any questions about those now would be the time to to ask those.
Tracy Kuhrt: Right not seeing any hands I don't think there's any questions.
Tracy Kuhrt: I will note that we do have some project reports that are overdue if you happen to speak to anybody in those projects and let them know that they're overdue.
Tracy Kuhrt: As well as data will be reaching out and having a conversation or trying to get somebody to respond to two comments about the fact that we need those project reports.
Tracy Kuhrt: All right, and we have three upcoming project reports to for next week one friend following that I have included there on the agenda.
Tracy Kuhrt: So the next thing that we have is related to burrow i'm hyper ledger borough we Daniel did reach out for us and talk to Casey.
Tracy Kuhrt: about the status of hyper ledger borough he did come back in recommend that we move that project to a dormant state I also got back an email from silas.
Tracy Kuhrt: Just a few days ago, a couple days ago.
Tracy Kuhrt: That he will also be providing.
Tracy Kuhrt: An update next week when he returns from the holidays, with some additional remarks about kind of the state of the maintenance of hyper ledger bro going forward.
Tracy Kuhrt: But I just wanted to let everybody know that we did get the recommendation for moving bro to Dominique from KC and want to put that as a decision point for us to officially move that to donate.
Tracy Kuhrt: Any questions or comments on that.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): So hi Tracy this all.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): Just to clarify so silas is aware that cases existed, we move that to dormant is not opposed to it right.
Tracy Kuhrt: that's correct you responded to the email.
Tracy Kuhrt: That had casey's original response in it.
Tracy Kuhrt: He didn't he didn't say like.
Tracy Kuhrt: No, no, no don't move it, it was just a hey i'll provide some additional color insight into what we're going to do with maintenance going forward when I return next week.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): Alright sounds good, thank you.
Tracy Kuhrt: Other questions or comments.
Tracy Kuhrt: room.
Aruna S M: Three sizes saw that you reached out to a couple of project teams are we can sort to, to be specific and asking them to.
Aruna S M: know the status, I know what sort of people responded, but did you hear back from sweater or somebody else on the fabrics.
Tracy Kuhrt: I did not hear back anything I put the question out on fabric edm chat channel asking if this edm chain code was still support it, but I have not heard anything back does anybody on the call know if we're still supporting the edm Chico.
Dave Enyeart: I think the plan is to retire that one or I don't know if it's the right state for repeal or sub rebel but that's the idea with that one.
Okay.
Tracy Kuhrt: Okay.
Dave Enyeart: In fact, I asked Chris Harris, was one of the initiators of that one and one of the few maintainer of their project remaining so I asked him if he could archive that.
Tracy Kuhrt: Okay, great.
Tracy Kuhrt: Any other.
Tracy Kuhrt: Questions concerns.
Tracy Kuhrt: comments about this before we take it to an official vote.
Tracy Kuhrt: Angela.
Angelo De Caro: yeah first of all Happy New Year and just for drivers ideally like the border i'm sorry that they go to document what I really like that project and just for the record.
Tracy Kuhrt: yeah definitely um.
Tracy Kuhrt: Thanks Angela.
This.
Tracy Kuhrt: First, real moving TV, you can, in the space so.
Tracy Kuhrt: it's it's sad to see that wanting to give it to donate but maybe at some point in the future, somebody will pick it up or move forward with it.
Tracy Kuhrt: Unless.
Kamlesh Nagware: So just one thing, first of all have been up everyone so.
Kamlesh Nagware: So when we put this project dormant state, so I think we should not, I think hypothesis should not do the marketing about like this project is now went to the administrators, because there are there are many ways of.
Kamlesh Nagware: Marketing agency, who can use this kind of new and can maybe spend the wrong about like hyper ledger know kind of dormant and kind of the activity in the particular projects.
Kamlesh Nagware: So what about the hyper ledger about reliability is talking about this project they're going to market about it would just it would be the Internet to the hyperion.
Tracy Kuhrt: Yes, I know I know when we move to document.
Tracy Kuhrt: Or the last year.
Tracy Kuhrt: You know, it was pretty much a silent sort of move right obviously not silence in the PC we did discuss it here but.
Tracy Kuhrt: that that was the extent of it right.
Tracy Kuhrt: There was no sort of announcement saying hey hyper ledger girls are hyper ledger quotes move to a different state, there will be that sort of thing like that.
Kamlesh Nagware: Okay yeah.
Tracy Kuhrt: Any other questions or comments or does somebody want to officially meet this emotion.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): So i'll be happy to make emotion, but I wanted to follow up on what the cameras just said, I mean.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): I think there's an easy Defense to anybody who tries to twist that into you know some negative news about hyper ledger.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): We ought to be able to say no, this is just you know we have this philosophy of having this kind of greenhouse where we have projects that are being you know brought in, we give them a chance.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): And it's normal you know it's it's good governance for us to also recognize when some projects are not going to last any longer, and we are retiring that.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): So I don't think we should I mean i'm not saying we should make a press release about it either.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): But I don't think we shouldn't be you know embarrassed about it or be shy about these things, we ought to be a multi take a very firm stand on the fact that this is normal part of you know, the project lifecycle.
Daniela Barbosa: Oh, I was going to raise my hand Sorry, I agree with our nose comments and maybe it's a good opportunity in the New Year to also.
Daniela Barbosa: bring forward the the actual governance and what the statuses and what is incubated versus active, because I think you know, everybody here on the phone knows, or I hope everybody here on the phone knows.
Daniela Barbosa: But I think a lot of people as they come into hyper ledger don't understand what that is so maybe it would be worth our while to take you use this as a reason to you know, maybe do a blog post around the governance and why it's important and.
Daniela Barbosa: And how we see this as, as you know, good governance and healthy project, you know project developments as well.
Daniela Barbosa: And I think that would be a great blog post me and Tracy we can help you or if somebody else wants to raise your hand to do it on the tlc.
Daniela Barbosa: To put forward and have as a reference material.
Tracy Kuhrt: sounds good.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): So, again i'm happy to move for the motion to.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): to dominate state.
Tracy Kuhrt: Okay, any.
Tracy Kuhrt: Second, thanks heart alright, so I don't think we need a roll call here.
Tracy Kuhrt: So right if you just want to give us a gaining sort of.
Ry Jones: In the matter before the technical Steering Committee.
Ry Jones: who votes yay.
Hart Montgomery: yay.
yeah.
Ry Jones: Does anyone abstained for voting on the matter.
Ry Jones: Do we have any days.
Ry Jones: The eyes have it, the eyes have it.
Tracy Kuhrt: All right, thanks right.
Tracy Kuhrt: Okay, so, then the The other matter before us really is talking through the.
Tracy Kuhrt: The issue that I raised in a TC around projects, who have not submitted their tsu quarterly project update.
Tracy Kuhrt: will be moved to dormant State after a TC vote, so there has been a lot of comments on this particular github issue already.
Tracy Kuhrt: But I did want to bring it specifically to the TC and to our meeting here, so we can have a a wider discussion if anybody has any specific thoughts you'd like to bring up now would be the time to have that discussion.
Tracy Kuhrt: So I think before we get to the discussion right if you wouldn't mind just opening up that issue, so that we can see it on the screen, as far as what it's been written up as.
Tracy Kuhrt: So I have done a few edits based on things that people have brought up, but specifically.
Tracy Kuhrt: The idea here is that if project, Mrs their quarterly project update we first go through the process of having the tlc vice chair reach out to those projects to remind them that their report is do.
Tracy Kuhrt: They know has been reaching out specifically using these mechanisms that i've listed, which is reaching out directly to the last person who submitted the project quarterly update if he doesn't get a response he reaches out to both the project mailing list in the official chat channel.
Tracy Kuhrt: And then the idea here is that if, for some reason he's unable to meet someone in the project and an entire quarter goes by since we've seen a report from the project, then the TC would discuss and determine if there should be a boat on moving that project to a domain state.
Tracy Kuhrt: So Questions comments need discussion that we'd like to have.
Tracy Kuhrt: A room.
Aruna S M: Over so.
Aruna S M: I guess my first question would be is dominant state only state that we're looking to move this project directly into our.
Aruna S M: Can we consider let's say.
Aruna S M: an intermediary state that says hey this nobody from this particular project is responding but probably eventually Community will oversee it and move it to dominate state, but for now we're just awaiting response.
Tracy Kuhrt: yeah so I specifically use the dormant state as that was a state, we introduced last year.
Tracy Kuhrt: And it seemed like the the right phrasing, if you will, I think we spoke quite a bit last year when we were thinking about what the right term was for this particular state.
Tracy Kuhrt: dorm it seemed to be the right idea but happy to see if anybody else has any different ideas or thoughts about whether we should add a new state.
Aruna S M: Since I still had my hand raised sorry i'll probably pitching that pitched it in with additional idea.
Aruna S M: So we are.
Aruna S M: Considering the current problem that is projects not submitting the quarterly reports.
Aruna S M: But maybe in we have certain other cases where let's say some of these projects word.
Aruna S M: not responding let's say a new labs has been set up and we recommended that particular labs project to reach out to existing projects.
Aruna S M: and see if there is any collaboration and they being your newcomers into the Community they tried reaching out to these projects, however, they did not get a response from from these existing projects that could.
Aruna S M: be another case which i'm anticipating could occur.
Aruna S M: So maybe that calls us for a for a case where.
Aruna S M: We say hey this particular project maintainer Sir not responding to multiple requests, irrespective of whether it's the tsa reaching out to them or any other Community members reaching out to them.
Aruna S M: So yeah that's that's all I want to back up like my initial thoughts.
Aruna S M: Thank you.
Tracy Kuhrt: know.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): A couple of thoughts I mean on the land itself, I don't think we should put the labs in the next year because they officially not under the governance of the thc per se.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): And I think you know is strictly those two laps to also dealt with those issues situations where we just say Okay, just like nobody is alive here and not responding and we just archive it and.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): And we're pretty I mean thanks to right if we say we're pretty responsive at resurrecting those if somebody comes back and say no, no, I should be I mean to.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): keep working on this, so, so I don't think labs are concerning when it comes to the project's themselves.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): You know i'm happy that we just had this resolution for borough I think everybody would like to would like this kind of outcome better where there is actually agreement and discussions that has happened, where there is no, you know it's not a contentions.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): Conflicting situation where the tsp military says, well, we haven't heard from them so screw it we're just.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): You know move them to Dom and then I hope this we never have to do this, really, because this is really an unfortunate situation.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): I do, like the original proposal, because I think it doesn't force anything it just says hey, this is the mechanism will will use if it comes to this and there's all these like different milestones where you really trying to reach out and.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): it's really the worst case scenario where you say, well, we just can't get any answers and and then we will have to make a decision.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): And it doesn't even say will automatically move the project to Dom and it just says the TC will really have to.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): You know, hard look at this and make a decision, so I think this is all we need I wouldn't want to make you know no offense to earn.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): I can see the logic in our Rules counterproposal to add another state, I think it just makes things more complicated and unnecessary for something that ought to be a very corner edge cases So hopefully something will never really face.
Tracy Kuhrt: Okay, thanks, or no I just to clarify, on the one point about labs I agreed shouldn't be part of this, but I think what a room was trying to get to was the place where.
Tracy Kuhrt: If a if we told it lab stuart's told the lab to reach out to an existing project and then that project didn't respond to that lab.
Tracy Kuhrt: Is is I think what he was trying to get to which I think is a valid sort of point.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): I guess okay thanks for the clarification I missed that.
Tracy Kuhrt: yeah no worries I originally when I have my brain went there to you, and then I was like oh wait okay.
Tracy Kuhrt: um so I just want to make sure.
Tracy Kuhrt: You got that as well um heart.
Hart Montgomery: So I think we should also try to address some of the core issues around this so just poking around right it looks like say caliper is pretty active.
Hart Montgomery: Even though their quarterly report is like you know, a month overdue or something right, I mean they had.
Hart Montgomery: just looking that you know somebody where it was merged pull requests, two days ago, so you know it's clear that you know people are people are still working the project isn't dead.
Hart Montgomery: they're just not doing the quarterly reports, and I think for some of these smaller projects, you know you get people that say like you know it's just not a priority for people they don't really see the benefit of doing the quarterly report or doing much or doing it on time.
Hart Montgomery: And so they just tend to like do it halfway or just just just kind of ignore it right.
Hart Montgomery: So I think you know, obviously, for bigger projects, this is this is much less of an issue there's going to be somebody that can do this.
Hart Montgomery: So i'm wondering if if there's a way we can sort of attack in the other direction, rather than you know just saying like you must do your quarterly reports.
Hart Montgomery: and attacking with you know sort of the big stick, we can either give some kind of carrots for quarterly reports or or make quarterly reports, easy to do.
Hart Montgomery: So, so I don't know how we can you know give carrots or incentivize people to do quarterly reports.
Hart Montgomery: But you know, maybe some like attention from the tasc or maybe you know you can get stuff from your like accomplishments from the quarterly report featured on a blog or something.
Hart Montgomery: i'm not sure I also think some of this stuff on the quarterly reports, it would be great if we could automate in the long run, just to make things easier like there's no reason why we can't pull.
Hart Montgomery: Like the contributors, or the well, no reason, in theory, anyway, but we can't pull all the contributions statistics from fx or something like that so.
Hart Montgomery: That might be a lot of work, but you know, maybe in the long run, we can think about doing that, so I guess what do people think about all of this.
Tracy Kuhrt: chart just i'll come in before anybody else raises their hand um I, I think that there's.
Tracy Kuhrt: there's a reason that we introduce quarterly report and maybe that reason isn't obvious to everybody involved in in the projects as to why they're doing the quarterly reports.
Tracy Kuhrt: I also would comment on the fact that I actually take those quarterly reports there's two things that happen with those quarterly reports.
Tracy Kuhrt: One is that I share them on a quarterly basis with the Governing Board and i'm sorry i'm a monthly basis with the governing board as to which ones were submitted and I also pull out the interesting sorts of facts from them.
Tracy Kuhrt: And so I use those in the Governing Board reports every month to let them know kind of what the projects are up to and interesting things that they've been doing.
Tracy Kuhrt: And I have also used a lot of the information from those quarterly reports for like the Member summit, when I gave the Member summit update of the projects those quarterly reports work great to figure out what was happening, specifically in the project.
Tracy Kuhrt: I use those internally within Accenture to share what's happening on different projects that might be of interested people within Accenture.
Tracy Kuhrt: You know I use these more than I think people realize it, and so I think if and when we do this blog post Daniela.
Tracy Kuhrt: On the government, I think it's also maybe a place where we can highlight the usefulness of these project reports and why they why they bring value in my projects would want to do those and maybe that's just a discussion that we have to have broader with with projects, but for me.
Tracy Kuhrt: I wouldn't know what was going on with some of these projects if we didn't have these projects reports so i'll stop because hurt obviously something I said, maybe raise your hand again so i'll let you go.
Hart Montgomery: yeah I was just saying I think I agree with you and.
Hart Montgomery: I think that the key point that you said was that the projects aren't aware that this is happening great.
Hart Montgomery: So from their end it's just, particularly at a small but the big focus here is small projects that are not connected to the tasc that don't have tasc representation.
Hart Montgomery: And these in to them, these quarterly reports are just kind of like a black hole right they see the input and and they don't see a lot.
Hart Montgomery: A lot coming out of it, so I think I think emphasizing what you said to this small projects would you know to these projects that are you know still active, but not necessarily.
Hart Montgomery: On time on their quarterly reports would be fantastic, and I think this would be, you know that this would encourage people to be more on time on these and to your other point.
Hart Montgomery: We you know you were there for this, but we actually introduced the quarterly reports because we used to have people do them live at the tlc meeting.
Hart Montgomery: And this just became too much of a burden on actually the tasc because all of the meetings were dominated by.
Hart Montgomery: By people giving their quarterly report talks and it wasn't a problem that people didn't want to give them generally people wanted to like they wanted to talk about their project in front of the tasc.
Hart Montgomery: And, and they spent too much time and that was the problem, and I know i'm sure he remembers this as well.
Hart Montgomery: So maybe maybe we can also give some of these projects, a little bit of, we can say hey your quarterly report is late, you know.
Hart Montgomery: If you're worried about you know impact of the tasc not seeing it do you want to talk, do you want to give it verbally in front of the dsc and obviously this isn't a sustainable thing that we can do for every project every time.
Hart Montgomery: But, but maybe it could help connect some of these projects back to the tasc.
Hart Montgomery: Thanks for listening sorry for the long talk.
Tracy Kuhrt: No problem thanks all right.
Tracy Kuhrt: Any other thoughts or comments.
Tracy Kuhrt: i've kind of heard two different things one we like this and to order sure this is right thing, so like this, here are some other people in their thoughts on the issue at hand Nathan.
Nathan George: it's important to emphasize, for the record we're not trying to make these reports hard.
Nathan George: If they're overburden some or if there's data that's not applicable to your project or if there's something about doing quarterly report.
Nathan George: it's really, really difficult, you know you can even use your quarterly report to tell us about that too.
Nathan George: And you know the ideas that we are trying to gather enough information, we can support your project, we want to be able to brag about the good things that you're doing find you help.
Nathan George: Make connections with other partner companies and organizations who are working in other areas in hyper ledger so they can understand why your your projects, interesting and hopefully get involved so.
Nathan George: If someone's feeling like this is a bunch of busy work and it's not making any difference um.
Nathan George: let's have a conversation about how it can make a better difference and what what what different kinds of data, we might put in the report to make it better for you.
Nathan George: That that's always fair game, and that the template is not fixed or static enough that I think that that's a problem I have heard complaints around.
Nathan George: You know it's just too hard to find time, I think the other than there's just a lot of other things going on and people have a lot of competing priorities so um I think that this.
Nathan George: effort to follow up and formalizing some of the follow up around it will help us to avoid kind of that limbo of we haven't heard from a project and we're not sure what to do.
Nathan George: it'll give us kind of some specific action steps as a tlc we can take to keep everything straight and to do our due diligence about governance, like our newest telling us about before.
Nathan George: lobby.
Bobbi M: hi everybody Happy New Year, I know that the learning materials and working group, every time I get a quarterly report I update the resource library for each one of the projects and when new people new developers come in and they say I don't know where to get started.
Bobbi M: I send them there, and I say look at the summary of what's been going on in each one of these projects Look how many developers are coming in, are going out.
Bobbi M: and make your decision based on that information, so it does, like the metadata from that helps newcomers figure out what projects, they want to jump in on and that could be a carrot for these people who are for the groups that aren't.
Bobbi M: Seeing the value in that saying that's one of the first things the newcomers are looking at is how active is your project.
Tracy Kuhrt: it's good point let me.
Bobbi M: hurt.
Hart Montgomery: Like other people can go first.
Tracy Kuhrt: Okay Jen.
Jim Zhang: Thanks Tracy sorry for joining late, so I apologize if this has already been brought up earlier, I felt like.
Jim Zhang: The quality report definitely gives tasc a view into how prod each project is doing, but I thought it it's also a mechanism for sure article evaluation of how each project might need might may or may not need help from CSC point of view.
Jim Zhang: I wonder if the burden can be shifted a little bit if we can produce every report not requiring the other team to do that, but every report comes with different contents, since we have those great.
Jim Zhang: Project health status dashboards that I think each report just basically ended up, including anyway, if we can say whatever report will be generated on certain time.
Jim Zhang: It can be the time that we currently require them to be produced and they by default calm with the you know the information from the dashboard.
Jim Zhang: That shows, I think a lot of information about the healthiness of the project already and then every project owner is is welcome to add more details more color to you know just the numbers, but I think that number themselves tells a great story about how each project is doing.
Jim Zhang: don't want to add more work to anybody's played I don't know if there's there's a good way to have those be generated with a default content by default and then you know every project owner can accept what's what's there, by default, or they can add more to it.
Tracy Kuhrt: So.
Tracy Kuhrt: I don't know i'm gonna jump in here before I call you because i'd like to respond to it to jim's comment here, I think that there is information, now that we didn't have when the product reports were originally created right, and I think that information is.
Tracy Kuhrt: Useful However, I would also say that.
Tracy Kuhrt: A lot of the words that people use are useful as well right about the specific things that we can't see by numbers right, these are the new features that were added in the last month or These are the things that are.
Tracy Kuhrt: going well, these are the things that are going bad and I don't think you can necessarily get that information from analytics.
Tracy Kuhrt: But at the same point I do agree that there's probably stuff in that project report template maybe doesn't have to be there anymore, now that we do have the analytics tool.
Jim Zhang: If I can.
Jim Zhang: Take a minute to respond to that Tracy.
Jim Zhang: I think we're kind of agreeing that we should utilize the dashboard more sort of as the baseline of evaluating if a project is very active clearly pushing more code and having discussions.
Jim Zhang: Even if they have nothing in the quarterly reports, I think we should feel happy right it shouldn't be a concern to anybody.
Jim Zhang: it's only one it's silent over there it's silent on the on the report content in terms of words that's when we should get concerned I just feel like if we did this, then it takes a lot of sort of confusion and complains of too much work out of the equation.
Jim Zhang: Thanks Jim.
Tracy Kuhrt: or no.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): I you know, on that very point first, I would say quickly that I.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): agree with your view Tracy, which is, I think you know we are leveraging the data are we asking people to put a link to the last quarter.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): So that people have an easy access to this data, but I think the intent, at least, was to go beyond what the variable you know that's been can be gathered to dramatically.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): And, and in a way that only a human being can really convey, but maybe Jim as the point where we and it kind of you know, goes.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): it's in line with what Nathan was touching on earlier, which is maybe at this point, we could you know.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): better communicate what we expect from from this this form this report and maybe lighten up even the structure.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): And you know so that it the effort to feel them out in the case where there is no issue, because much lighter, but I also wanted to bounce initially to.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): The icon on this topic, you were you were explaining very interesting, you know use cases for those reports all the use, you make out of them and Bobby also highlighted how she uses that.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): And so I think, maybe out of this, we should take you know what i'm thinking is, we should make an effort to try to capture.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): You know the the the use of those reports and so that we can communicate that to the projects because I agree with what I said earlier that.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): I suspect most projects don't even understand how much you know you are useful, they say and and I don't think we do a very good job necessarily explaining why are we having.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): worried we are asking them to fill out those reports and if they saw the value, maybe they would be more you know inclined to making the little effort we asking them to fill out those reports.
Tracy Kuhrt: yeah good point.
Tracy Kuhrt: Right your hand is virtually up.
Ry Jones: yeah my hand is virtually up, so I agree, I think that's a good way to go, I do want to point out that the the data insights is not static and you can change history, so if we're going to generate one I just asked to the tlc.
Ry Jones: It should be a static thing that they're pointing to not like a URL within fx because you can change history and that's that's all I got.
Tracy Kuhrt: Right, can I.
Tracy Kuhrt: Can I ask a follow up to the changing history, how do you change history.
Ry Jones: I will give you an example that will happen later today.
Ry Jones: I just transferred a repo in from BC go for Aries.
Ry Jones: So the contribution data for this quarter and all quarters proceeding, it will have will be recalculated once that repo is those contributions are taking in so they're going to change, and if we archive a repo.
Ry Jones: Those contributions will retroactively change as well.
Tracy Kuhrt: Okay yeah understood makes sense i'll try a heart.
Hart Montgomery: X Tracy so I just wanted to essentially agree with what our know said.
Hart Montgomery: Just a second ago and I also want to point out that I think we have sort of two different problems with quarterly reports.
Hart Montgomery: There are projects that are seemingly inactive that are not submitting their quarterly reports on time and, obviously, these projects, we should consider for dormancy, but there are also projects that are seemingly active that are lazy about.
Hart Montgomery: submitting their quarterly reports and probably discussion for dormancy is is not really right for these projects right, we could just look at them and say like well, people are are still working pretty hard on this they're just not submitting their quarterly reports.
Tracy Kuhrt: Yes.
Tracy Kuhrt: Just thinking about that.
Tracy Kuhrt: In the in the case of the projects that are.
Tracy Kuhrt: not responding not providing a project report and just try to rephrase What if we get heard there's two different reasons that they might not be doing that one they truly might not be active and two they might be active, but they just don't see the need to fill out the project report.
Tracy Kuhrt: In the former case, we need to do something about that, in the latter case, we need to still get information from those active projects about interesting things that we might be able to share with a.
Tracy Kuhrt: wider community, and we need to figure out a way to do that did I did I captured that correctly or what you were trying to say.
Hart Montgomery: Yes, thank you, that was great.
Tracy Kuhrt: Okay, I just want to make sure I didn't miss something.
Hart Montgomery: No, no yeah.
Hart Montgomery: I just wanted to point out that these two problems have potentially two different solutions.
Hart Montgomery: yeah just what you summarized perfectly, so thank you.
Okay.
Tracy Kuhrt: Thanks Nathan.
Nathan George: Well, I just to add to that often there's something we can do to help when that's the case like Maybe someone who's handling a lot of the administrative work has transitioned on to a different role or job or you know, maybe they need help with.
Nathan George: nominating a new maintainer, for example, because if the core maintainer who is doing all the reports moves on it, maybe if the project is still.
Nathan George: Perfectly active, but not all the roles and responsibilities as a former maintainer you know were passed on or handed over to someone else so.
Nathan George: Now there's often something that's fairly easy and straightforward, we can do is to seek help and support with that in terms of.
Nathan George: helping them find new containers or making sure that some of those responsibilities are passed on to someone who can help support, so I think it's worth calling that out that the dormancy is not the only outcome here.
Nathan George: That they were really time and CSE as a whole, we need to go look at this, we need to figure out what we can do better.
Tracy Kuhrt: yep.
Tracy Kuhrt: hi David.
David Boswell: Will to build on that about responsibilities and making sure they're handed off, I mean i've seen situations where new people come into a project.
David Boswell: And they're just not aware of their responsibilities, I mean I don't think we need to assume that.
David Boswell: A maintainer necessarily knows that they need to do the report and just chooses not to I suspect.
David Boswell: There are new maintainer is you don't even realize this isn't necessarily a thing there's no real official maintainer onboarding, so to speak, right so.
David Boswell: Maybe there is more we can do to notice when a new maintainer shows up and reach out and make sure that we have a conversation with them because i've seen other situations where new people show up and they're not necessarily aware of.
David Boswell: Existing Community calls for example, or other things that maybe we would hope that they were aware of.
Tracy Kuhrt: that's a good point to do it.
Tracy Kuhrt: Is there something that we can be doing to document, some of the responsibilities that might exist out there, that people are not aware of.
David Boswell: And, in theory, if I knew if and I don't know if insights could do this but, in theory, if it could, if we had a list of all the new maintainer who showed up in a given time period.
David Boswell: You know I can reach out to them and say hey do you want to have an onboarding but you know I don't you know I don't think that's really been happening right now, I think the onboarding if it exists, has been very informal.
Tracy Kuhrt: um I saw your hand go up and then back down anything.
Hart Montgomery: Oh sure I was just going to comment that it seems like the reminders were particularly erratic recently.
Hart Montgomery: I don't know what was up with that, but.
Ry Jones: I did go through and change.
Ry Jones: a bunch of the meetings when I was rescheduling stuff for this year to kind of spread out, we had a bunch of them that were happening all at once, and we had some new projects, I was reshuffling them.
Ry Jones: it's possible that I.
Ry Jones: didn't get all the invites exactly correctly set up with the proper reminders, so I will go back and look at the project calendars and make sure that those are set up correctly, thank you for pointing that out.
Tracy Kuhrt: All right, anything else I I heard.
Tracy Kuhrt: A couple things that I think are action items that we need to take as a TC.
Tracy Kuhrt: One is that we probably need to review the project report template and determine what is still useful to have what is not useful to have in them.
Tracy Kuhrt: As well as writing up.
Tracy Kuhrt: Some wiki page or some blog post that talks about why project reports are important right, how are they used beyond just the hey you wrote it we read it, that was the end of it right.
Tracy Kuhrt: So I think those are the two action items specifically for this particular issue I think there's still value in it for.
Tracy Kuhrt: The projects that are truly inactive right that they're not writing a report because there's nobody there to write a report and there's nothing that's happening on those projects.
Tracy Kuhrt: However, as has been stated right there are the cases where we want to try and figure out how to make this an easier process for projects that are active and that this doesn't seem like a.
Tracy Kuhrt: A hassle right struggle and.
Tracy Kuhrt: A complex sort of thing to for them to do on a quarterly basis, and I think you know the two action items will help in that regard so.
Tracy Kuhrt: Anything else that we should talk about specifically for this issue is there, anybody who wants to volunteer for for maybe reviewing the project report template coming up with an alternative for suggestions for changes.
Tracy Kuhrt: as we go forward.
Tracy Kuhrt: i'm happy to write up the information on why the project reports are important.
Jim Zhang: Casey I can help take a look at the the template of to see if we can include a section that has.
Jim Zhang: The stats capture somehow.
Tracy Kuhrt: Okay that'd be great.
Tracy Kuhrt: And also, if there's if there's things in there that we think are no longer really valid right to to have.
Tracy Kuhrt: Somebody manually go and ask.
Tracy Kuhrt: You know, those are things we can take a look at you know updating the template as well.
Tracy Kuhrt: Alright, any.
Tracy Kuhrt: Any other comments any questions anything that is not related to this, that we should be talking about as this year starts.
Tracy Kuhrt: Everybody got their fingers crossed that jason's gonna say they can go now.
Tracy Kuhrt: kimmy very quiet in order to make that happen.
Hart Montgomery: Casey we're expecting a closing monologue.
Tracy Kuhrt: No, I can't do it.
Tracy Kuhrt: All right, so there's nothing.
else.
Tracy Kuhrt: You know we'll hopefully have.
Tracy Kuhrt: The opportunity in the next week for you to go through and take a look and make some suggestions and hopefully get you on the report next week.
Tracy Kuhrt: or on the agenda next week and then I will also start to write up the information on why a project report is important, so we can take a look at that and see if there's other things we'd like to add to it with that I am going to close the meeting.
Dave Enyeart: That was a good closing monologue Thank you.
Hart Montgomery: Thank you, thanks Tracy.
Dave Enyeart: I.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): say goodbye.