Hart Montgomery: Good morning Tracy How are things for you today.
Tracy Kuhrt: Not too bad, how are you heart.
Hart Montgomery: A little busy, but you know that's that's life right.
Tracy Kuhrt: i'm just ready for the holidays.
Hart Montgomery: yep.
Hart Montgomery: Do you have any exciting plans here.
Tracy Kuhrt: nope.
Hart Montgomery: Just relaxing.
Tracy Kuhrt: yeah just stayed at home.
Hart Montgomery: that's sometimes the best.
Tracy Kuhrt: I think so.
Just.
Tracy Kuhrt: How about you anything special.
Hart Montgomery: Nothing too exciting i'm going to my girlfriend's parents house.
Hart Montgomery: For a little while and in rural Rhode island.
Hart Montgomery: Oh so it'll be quiet yeah.
Hart Montgomery: Little colder than i'd like but.
Hart Montgomery: I have to break out my old winter clothes.
Hart Montgomery: Use like once a year now.
Tracy Kuhrt: you're like it's still something I can put on my.
Tracy Kuhrt: shelf I don't know yeah I have not a lot of clothes that are for cold weather so.
Hart Montgomery: yeah same and all minor like man they're approaching like 15 years old.
Hart Montgomery: I went to college in the northeast and then i've been out in California, ever since and i've just used them so little bit it's it's I still basically have the same ones, because, like Do I really want to replace them for like one time, a year.
Right.
Hart Montgomery: So.
Hart Montgomery: sort of a.
Hart Montgomery: yeah.
Hart Montgomery: don't need it don't need it, I guess, where you live either so.
Tracy Kuhrt: No, not typically.
Tracy Kuhrt: Although it was 37 degrees when I woke up this morning, so.
Hart Montgomery: It got down to 41 in San Francisco this week.
Hart Montgomery: Which is.
Hart Montgomery: very surprising.
Tracy Kuhrt: again quite.
Tracy Kuhrt: Normal.
Ry Jones: Since this starts recording when the first person joins a meeting I will leave it up to you to declare when the meeting has started.
Tracy Kuhrt: will give will give a few more moments.
Tracy Kuhrt: are still joining in we don't yet seem to have.
Tracy Kuhrt: A call from the TC numbers.
Tracy Kuhrt: Well, I only saw one regrets from Jim.
Tracy Kuhrt: yeah shut up.
Ry Jones: don't know if.
Ry Jones: You see Member saw the contribution.
Ry Jones: Campaign swag packs.
Ry Jones: or put in form but.
Ry Jones: you've got an email, you should you should be able to get a free one.
Tracy Kuhrt: yep one showed up this week.
Ry Jones: cool.
Tracy Kuhrt: Alright let's go ahead and get started.
Tracy Kuhrt: Thank you all for joining the December 16 call the TC.
Tracy Kuhrt: As you all, probably are aware, although we do have a couple guests today and welcome to our guest you, there are two things that you have to abide by.
Tracy Kuhrt: The TC meetings, the first one is the antitrust policy notice, which is displayed on the screen and the second one is our code of conduct, which is linked in the agenda.
Tracy Kuhrt: So with that we'll hit the announcements.
Tracy Kuhrt: As always.
Tracy Kuhrt: In the announcements we have the Dev weekly developer newsletter that goes out each Friday.
Tracy Kuhrt: If you are interested in including anything in that Dev weekly newsletter there is a link on the agenda to a wiki page where you can add your comments.
Tracy Kuhrt: for inclusion in the in the Dev weekly newsletter so feel free to add anything that you might have about your particular project or.
Tracy Kuhrt: Anything that's interesting going on, specifically in your Community or working group or sig anything that you would like to have highlighted to reach the community of hyper ledger developers.
Tracy Kuhrt: The second announcement that we have here is just a reminder that next week and the following weeks meetings are canceled due to the end of your holidays, we will pick up the meetings, the first week in January and.
Tracy Kuhrt: Obviously enjoy the time off enjoy the meteor and that's the announcements that are listed here does anybody else have any announcements that they would like to make.
Ry Jones: i'm going to say there's one more.
Ry Jones: 14 Daniela has an announcement, I see a room.
Ry Jones: raises hand so room.
Aruna S M: hey probably it's not an announcement it's just a heads up because next couple of weeks we're not going to have a call if we had and maybe a few people who are joined and updated it so so some of the six and and.
Aruna S M: The chapters, we are planning to collaborate across and run a long running hyper ledger challenge it's it's a.
Aruna S M: it's going to be a long running challenge not exactly a hackathon we The goal is to have more open source contributions and then bring in more people contributing in hyper ledger and also bring in new projects into labs.
Aruna S M: So that's an heads up if you have some more details will be shared across over an email, and also, it will be shared across in coming weeks.
Aruna S M: And if you have any needs within your projects or, if you have needs let's say within some of your cigs that you participate, please bring in those problem statements and this challenge, so that's the right, so thank you.
Tracy Kuhrt: Good thanks right.
Tracy Kuhrt: So another way to get the additional contributors to the your projects your six year working groups your labs.
Tracy Kuhrt: anybody else have any announcements they'd like to make.
Ry Jones: Well, Daniel hasn't unmuted so there's there's Danielle go ahead.
Daniela Barbosa: What was my announcement.
Ry Jones: Well okay fine Sean.
Ry Jones: Who many I know from the Community has joined hyper ledger as as my peer and i'm excited to have him here on the team working on hyper ledger so Daniel shawn.
Sean Bohan: At thanks Ryan thanks Ellen i'm super psyched to be here so.
Sean Bohan: And to be back actually.
Daniela Barbosa: it's really great to have Sean joined us and support awry and Dan boswell as the team continues to put new programs into place we're excited working on our planning for 2022 and Sean welcome welcome back and welcome to the staff here at hyper ledger and the Linux foundation.
Tracy Kuhrt: Right great thanks for that in Sean really glad to see you again and welcome to the Community architecture role.
Tracy Kuhrt: anybody else have any announcements they'd like to make.
Tracy Kuhrt: Okay, so, with no more announcements we will head to the quarterly reports, as you can see, we have a couple of reports that are outstanding overdue.
Tracy Kuhrt: We did get in the firefly.
Report.
Tracy Kuhrt: which, from what I could see I didn't necessarily have any questions or comments that need to be addressed, we do still have.
Tracy Kuhrt: looks like about six people who haven't yet reviewed the the report so definitely if you're a tlc Member don't forget, there are a number of reports that you need your reviews, so if you.
Tracy Kuhrt: You know, would take the time to do that, that would be greatly appreciated by the projects are there any questions that didn't get addressed or add it to the firefly report that needs to be addressed.
Tracy Kuhrt: well.
Kamlesh Nagware: So in the firefly report, I think, maintenance diversity is only the one company now, so what is the plan of the mentors project mentor to going to increase their option or maybe increase the diversity of the developers.
Tracy Kuhrt: it's a good question I.
Tracy Kuhrt: don't see that we have anybody from firefly on the call I would recommend, adding that question to the report, to see if we can get some answers back.
Tracy Kuhrt: Probably.
Bobbi Muscara: hi I know that, through the giving chain project we took a break, when the mentorship program was over, and we intend to come back.
Bobbi Muscara: In the New Year and help I know the mentees are definitely ready to get started again helping the firefly people, so I believe that they will become contributors to firefly in January.
Tracy Kuhrt: I think I think the question is more around the maintainer looking at the contributor diversity report.
Tracy Kuhrt: That was added by linking to the effects insights I did see that there was a 25% increase of contributors over the past three months, but I do think the question around hundred percent collider maintainer is is a is a question that we.
Tracy Kuhrt: You know, should should pose to the firefly community and definitely work towards increasing that diversity.
Bobbi Muscara: Or maybe one of the mentees one day will be a maintainer is.
Tracy Kuhrt: My yo.
Tracy Kuhrt: that's how you start start as a contributor work your way up.
Tracy Kuhrt: Okay, any other any other questions or comments that we should make sure we're adjusting to the firefly community.
David Boswell: yeah as far as that goes NICO did share on the meditators list this week or presentation that they put together about their Community building efforts so far.
David Boswell: And I do believe in there, he flags that finding and you know, bringing new maintainer is on is a challenge, so just one thought for us is.
David Boswell: What sort of guidance from from the more mature projects are there tips or suggestions or ideas like do we have like a best practice guide for perhaps finding containers that could be a thing to think about you know what.
David Boswell: If they're raising their hand and saying yeah we really want some but it's a challenge, how do we want to you know guide them, perhaps.
Tracy Kuhrt: Sure, is anybody have any thoughts on that, from the perspective of how they have added mean cleaners to their existing projects.
Tracy Kuhrt: and compassionate it okay thanks I was I wasn't shake your hand was up to answer that or if you had a follow up there.
Kamlesh Nagware: So I think to raise my hands.
Kamlesh Nagware: So yeah so to increase the diversity, maybe like it was just a example of the marketing automation framework.
Kamlesh Nagware: They extended the competitors and contributors in the very short time in the early if Clyde Clyde Oh, and the other five like team, maybe do some to season, to be involved, the Community.
Kamlesh Nagware: Talk to the SI geez or regional chapters do some kind of workshops to get the more involvement to the project there's a business plan from there.
Tracy Kuhrt: Okay anybody else have any ideas or suggestions that we can offer to project, since they want to increase their maintainer diversity.
Aruna S M: A probably one good thing about firefly report, at least for the last quarter has been from the elephants and site it's just that.
Aruna S M: 3% or maybe three people have disengage themselves from the contributors, and there is increase of 25.
Aruna S M: And at the same time, so there is some engagement from the contributors so it's not one of contributions that we are saying for outside collider.
Aruna S M: But it's still a question that we need to get through them and ask them what is the timeframe that they are looking for from an external engagement point of view.
Aruna S M: For them to be considered as a maintainer and in terms of PRS count that elephants inside tells us it's close to 85% of PRS that are coming in from one organization, as opposed to 15% from rest of those 45% people coming in from different organizations.
Aruna S M: Maybe that's another question that we can talk to them talk through them about.
Tracy Kuhrt: yeah for sure, and I recall seeing on the DCI mailing list Karen you had sent out a report on.
Tracy Kuhrt: In increasing diversity and inclusion amongst projects and David, I think your response back pulled out some of the pieces of that, and one of them was.
Tracy Kuhrt: Making sure that project document the process by which people can become not only contributors, but maintain errs as well, and I think that's a really good point and maybe something.
Tracy Kuhrt: That, I am not aware, one way or the other, whether or not firefly has that or which of our projects do have that but that's definitely something that I think was a worthwhile call out for us to you know.
Tracy Kuhrt: Look at as a community to see about increasing diversity of both contributors and.
David Boswell: yeah that's a really good point I don't know exactly what we would do, but maybe just reviewing and understanding, where that documentation exists and where it doesn't kind of maybe a mapping exercise could be a good point.
Tracy Kuhrt: I could give us.
David Boswell: Some direction about where maybe we could provide some support to fill some areas in.
Tracy Kuhrt: yeah definitely.
Tracy Kuhrt: Okay anything else, then on the quarterly reports, obviously we have now for that are outstanding.
Tracy Kuhrt: That haven't yet been reported on, and then we have four that are coming up.
Tracy Kuhrt: That will be looking at.
Tracy Kuhrt: In the new year as well, so just just recognizing that if you are project.
Tracy Kuhrt: maintain maintainer or community in the Community of these projects, letting them know that their reports or do is something that I think is important, and I know that Dan has been.
Tracy Kuhrt: You know, reaching out to to these projects as well to try and get people to put their reports in so just a.
Tracy Kuhrt: You know this is a lot of outstanding and guests quarterly reports that we have.
Tracy Kuhrt: So with that we do have a decision on the list here before the TC number attendance of project meetings, the issue that was created last week.
Tracy Kuhrt: By heart, I did not see any additional comments added to this so i'm going to assume that, based on that that everybody thinks that this is ready to go as is, but before we call this for vote i'd like to see if there's any discussion on this.
Tracy Kuhrt: That maybe didn't get added into the issue that should have been added into the issue.
Tracy Kuhrt: Alright, so see no hands, I think.
Tracy Kuhrt: Do we have a motion to put this to vote.
Nathan George: I move we vote.
Nathan George: All right, thank.
Tracy Kuhrt: You have a second.
Tracy Kuhrt: hi I think there were a couple of seconds there I definitely heard Peter.
Tracy Kuhrt: So let's go ahead and put this to vote um I did you want to.
Tracy Kuhrt: Talk us through a vote.
Ry Jones: Sure, I didn't think this really need to be a roll call vote, but.
Ry Jones: If that's what you would like Troy.
Ry Jones: Troy the matter before the tasc, how do you vote yay or nay.
Ry Jones: I didn't hear about.
Dave Enyeart: I don't think we need a roll call yeah.
Ry Jones: me either.
Tracy Kuhrt: You know.
Tracy Kuhrt: The.
Tracy Kuhrt: Reason i'm on a roll call is because i'm not seeing a lot of.
Tracy Kuhrt: engagement from the tsp, and so I want to make sure that people are engaged in these conversations so i'm going to force a roll call guys.
Ry Jones: Okay.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): I will start thinking make sense actually yeah that's a very good.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): Point Tracy because it does require us to actually do something here right it's, not just for you, but yes and your dog it's like no you're basically committing to you know.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): Basically, implement that plan so.
Ry Jones: Okay i'm going to start over again at the bottom Troy.
Ry Jones: How do you vote joy.
Sorry.
Troy Ronda: I apologize guys, I actually missed the VID the topic on this one i'm really sorry.
Ry Jones: Okay, you can abstain, I mean.
Troy Ronda: i'll abstain.
Ry Jones: Okay Jersey.
Ry Jones: Yes, Peter.
Peter Somogyvari: Yes.
Nathan.
Nathan George: Yes.
Ry Jones: Okay marsh.
Yes.
Ry Jones: It looks like Jim is still not here heart.
Ry Jones: Yes, grace.
Ry Jones: Yes, David.
Ry Jones: Yes, no.
Ry Jones: Yes, Bobby.
Yes.
Aruna S M: Yes.
Artem Barger: Yes.
Ry Jones: or no.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): Yes, century grits.
Ry Jones: I know and Angelo is not here either, so we have the motion passes with one stain.
Tracy Kuhrt: So in the new year, please at least one meeting.
Tracy Kuhrt: per month attend.
Tracy Kuhrt: As a TC Member.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): Real work.
Tracy Kuhrt: yep exactly.
Tracy Kuhrt: Alright, so the second item here is, in our discussions, we do have a draft that is out there again, I did not see any sort of comments showing up in this document this week.
Tracy Kuhrt: For the services for graduated projects versus incubated projects versus labs, but I do want to make sure that if anybody has any.
Tracy Kuhrt: comments that they would like to add anything that they see that's missing that they would like to make sure that is being provided by the hyper ledger stuff that that does get into this document.
David Boswell: And plus one with Tracy said, we definitely do want some feedback, I mean if it doesn't happen to be feedback today, you know we can always you know have.
David Boswell: Additional discussion going forward, but you know our goal with documenting this information or clearly is to make sure that projects on labs have.
David Boswell: What the leaders of those projects and labs need to be successful, so you know that really requires input from you know the people involved to say hey This is something we do need and we don't have clarity about it or This is great, and you know.
David Boswell: But the more feedback, I think the better on on this, so please, if you have thoughts, we live here.
Tracy Kuhrt: Yes or no.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): Yes, so I went through the document earlier and I have to say I mean I didn't see anything that shocked me so that's the good news.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): You know I kind of wish that the document were built in a way, and so this brings a question to me is like you know I would expect levels to.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): To to kind of build on to one another, you know what I mean is like.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): I would imagine lab kind of the minimum and then you say or get incubating projects of everything the labs get plus those things, and the graduate of projects of everything being competing projects, plus those things but.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): You know the document was in deal that way and I felt like well if I say that I will say, well, thanks, but this is extra work and I wasn't.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): wanted to do the work, so I kind of Is it better to say it, but it fundamentally it also raises the question is that actually the cakes.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): Do do those you know, are those those levels do they exist do we have this kind of like increasing level of services, which I would expect, but maybe.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): isn't really like this, I don't know is there anything graduated project gets that an incubator project doesn't Oh, the other way around, but either right.
Ry Jones: At the top of the list.
Ry Jones: The paid subscriptions here.
Ry Jones: The one that we pay the most for the ones that we pay the most for our artifacts Murray and circle ci those are the largest.
Ry Jones: I guess, those are cat back strains.
Ry Jones: mpm is very little money in docker hub is non zero money but artifact green circle ci are the two.
Ry Jones: That we definitely gate.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): yeah no, I understand that i'm sorry I misspoke I really meant the other way around, is there anything an incubator project has that graduated product does, I would not expect that, so I you know it seems to me that would make it easier to digest this document, if it was built, as you know.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): Growing least with incubating and then graduating saying you have everything done competing projects have plus news fix So you can see exactly what the delta is.
David Boswell: that's what I would want to make the project or I would want to make the documentation more digestible I guess my thought.
David Boswell: Was that projects don't necessarily go through things literally like that, like you, don't necessarily become a lab first than an incubation project, so you know.
David Boswell: That was my thought to kind of treat them like fully document each because you may come in at that given level, not the level before right.
Tracy Kuhrt: yeah I think.
Tracy Kuhrt: i'll let down on top, and then all I have a maybe maybe I have a comment on that as well, but Daniel i'll let you go first.
Danno Ferrin: touch back to our nose point when the reasons that I asked for this for the staff to put this together, just to figure out what the graduation things are you know what.
Danno Ferrin: Extra do you get at the next level, and I think starting out this way I mean you just go through think of what is it that they get it's not one was just a.
Danno Ferrin: formatting issue to try and change how we present it, you know we could do the chart and everything.
Danno Ferrin: But you know when I was looking through this and I was looking through what instead of does a project have to go to graduated.
Danno Ferrin: It was there was no centralized place even look up this information be sure that this is what we get so I think that's a step towards that direction.
Danno Ferrin: I don't think it'll take too much to reformat it in one of those good better best plans, like you, you might get from web hosting or something.
Danno Ferrin: So I think we'll get there, but I think the big thing that just pointed out here is there's not a huge difference between an incubator and graduated project.
David Boswell: Today that correct very suggesting there's there should be more of a difference.
Danno Ferrin: I forgot yeah because I think there should be more of a carrots to go to graduated rather than staying and definitely an incubation.
Danno Ferrin: Because the phrase incubation implies you're going to leave you're going to grow or you're not going to be viable anymore it, you know the naming Convention I like it, because it implies it's not a steady state it's you know it's a transitory state like inflation.
Tracy Kuhrt: And I agree, I think.
David Boswell: Sorry go.
Tracy Kuhrt: Ahead no go ahead.
David Boswell: I was gonna say I agree, and I do think there should be a you know, a substantial difference to offer that carrot and maybe some of those differences.
David Boswell: Are subtle, but I think there definitely are things that would incentivize somebody to go through there like maybe the way that we phrased it doesn't like highlight what those differences are enough, but I feel like there are significant differences.
David Boswell: But again, maybe subtle.
Tracy Kuhrt: I think it's I think the document as it's written as I know, hasn't done it too is is difficult to see that right.
Tracy Kuhrt: You know it, it could be.
Tracy Kuhrt: The formatting that are now recommends, it could be, we put together some sort of.
Tracy Kuhrt: A chart that is check check not checked right really shows you what the the true differences are.
Tracy Kuhrt: If it's working though that is making them different than that's has to be somehow highlighted I think in in the way that this document is put together so that people can truly see.
Tracy Kuhrt: This is the new stuff right or, this is what this level provide you that the other level doesn't right.
Ry Jones: Sure, I agree completely and I this one of the historical context of this came from, there was a much larger difference and this exercise definitely showed me that there is not perhaps as much a difference as there should be so.
Ry Jones: i'm interested in.
Ry Jones: feedback on how how it is that we can What are those services, and how can we differentiate that so this, this was a good exercise for me, even if we don't end up.
Ry Jones: Making huge changes because they're just the delta is not large.
Tracy Kuhrt: yeah that's a good question to put to the tasc right.
Tracy Kuhrt: What do we think a graduated project should get that makes it special.
Tracy Kuhrt: What, in addition to to maybe the things that are being offered should we think outside the box and see about whether or not that could be something that we add to the.
Tracy Kuhrt: To the list.
Tracy Kuhrt: So I don't know if anybody has any suggestions or husband on other sorts of projects, whereby.
Tracy Kuhrt: there's a true distinction level for graduated versus incubated versus labs or sandbox whenever they might call that project and that project, but you know, a sort of examples I think would be helpful to to provide I know I had provided one, I think, from the Academy software foundation.
Tracy Kuhrt: So.
Tracy Kuhrt: If there's other people who have been in projects or.
Tracy Kuhrt: who have seen different ways of looking at this, I think that would be appreciate it.
Peter Somogyvari: Maybe you could mention.
Peter Somogyvari: The paid security audits that happened for projects.
Ry Jones: That hasn't been as.
Ry Jones: I mean that's not as distinct, as it has been.
Ry Jones: we're doing an audit for ursa which is not graduated right.
Peter Somogyvari: and practice.
Ry Jones: and practice.
Danno Ferrin: And even then you don't it's not like something continue to do every court only change significant things like basis pretty good pretty stable we haven't needed an audit but.
Danno Ferrin: we're trying to get one lined up for when we finish our merge work so that we can get on it and make sure we didn't introduce any.
Danno Ferrin: And we're doing some significant things as far as communication between two nodes and https so that's not obviously good security walk through there but also architectural but not every project change their architecture once a year, or once a quarter so.
David Boswell: I can highlight a couple of things that are new and so maybe that's why it's not clear that there is a distinction here, but you know we are starting to do these project workshops, for example.
David Boswell: People may have seen that we're doing one, starting with areas and indie I think that is something that should be graduated only you know those are going to be, you know significant.
David Boswell: resources to help onboard new users of the project new contributors to the projects, I think that should be something that is perhaps limited and I, hopefully, that would be an incentive those seem to be doing really well the areas workshop, we are having to close it's filled up so quickly.
David Boswell: I think another thing that could be worth doing, although it's not clear yet is maybe relook at the hyper ledger website and maybe give graduated projects much more prominent.
David Boswell: Exposure there and that could be a difference as well, but again that's not in place now, so it might not seem obvious that that is something that might be a difference, but that could be part of the marketing.
David Boswell: Differences between those levels as well.
Tracy Kuhrt: part.
Hart Montgomery: yeah, I just wanted to agree with David here that I think we should have a lead market graduated projects more.
Hart Montgomery: This will substantially decrease, I think it will encourage projects to graduate and it might also substantially decrease confusion in the hyper ledger space.
Hart Montgomery: When traditionally we've just put out in the greenhouse graphic all the projects, even those in incubation it's a lot more to process that and if we just have the handful of projects, you know, say that have graduated.
Ry Jones: We have done a little bit of that.
Ry Jones: If you go I guess i'm driving right now, so if you go to you know hyper ledger.org.
Ry Jones: We are putting the graduated projects.
Ry Jones: I thought we were putting the graduated projects above the oh OK.
David Boswell: We did on the wiki main page.
Ry Jones: Right, but this.
Ry Jones: This should have the landscape embedded right here.
Daniela Barbosa: The second spoken.
So.
Ry Jones: yeah but the graduated projects would be at the top.
Ry Jones: There we go, so the graduate projects are the top incubated and then below that the dormant project, so we are working on a little bit, but point taken.
Peter Somogyvari: deals will be something there.
Peter Somogyvari: may be.
Peter Somogyvari: congratulated projects get a bigger budget for mentorship so that there's more competitors coming in that way.
Ry Jones: There could be I think over the last two mentorship cycles, I believe we accepted everyone that applied.
Ry Jones: I believe that every project was funded because we we weren't limited.
Ry Jones: There weren't enough applications to run a mentorship so we had money for everyone that applied.
So.
Peter Somogyvari: What that limits the option there then.
Daniela Barbosa: Then, Peter I like that idea is the priority or the graduated projects if we do have to select from any, which hopefully will be the case.
Tracy Kuhrt: A route.
Aruna S M: So sorry I was thinking through the dog, but then I guess what I just said, it concerns me a little bit right now right so.
Aruna S M: um I mean when I hear about hyper ledger and the kind of engagement, I I hear out there in the public Community there is.
Aruna S M: interest among Community members to participate to 10 and participate, so they are looking for any kind of opportunity to get on board and in terms of contribution.
Aruna S M: And I think the point that you just spoke about it concerns me a bit maybe i'll connect offline about it, I believe we should have at least received more applications.
Right.
Ry Jones: Right it wasn't that we were low on applications, it was we were low on programs for people to apply for.
Aruna S M: hockey.
Ry Jones: Okay, so so we got a budget for I don't know how many.
Ry Jones: let's say 20 mentor ships.
Ry Jones: And we only had 17 memberships that were proposed by the projects so that that was a limitation.
Aruna S M: or I misinterpreted it sorry thanks.
Tracy Kuhrt: Oh no.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): yeah I think yeah occurs to me that I think one of the challenges we have you know and and maybe this is why.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): You know and, by the way, I agree, this was very useful exercise to kind of try to you know I actually put on paper, so to speak, the differences which are not that large, as has been pointed out, and I think one of the reasons it maybe there isn't that much of a difference is because.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): I think there is a bit of a conflict in trying to help actually the the project that are typically in incubation, for instance, and and trying to put a carrot as Donald said.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): For the graduation, and you know project day and graduation what i'm trying to say is that you know, on the one it seems fair to say hey graduated project deserve more services on the other end the really days.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): Maybe it's the one that I incubation that needs the most help right and I don't really know how to deal with this kind of like tension, because you know.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): yeah I think.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): You know what stops most project from moving out of incubation, as we all know, is the lack of diversity and contribution and so.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): Saying well we're going to kind of push them down on the website and other areas.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): This kind of deserving you know it's it's counterproductive in trying to help them get to the you know broader community of contributors, so I don't know how to deal with that tension.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): That or how do we make it so that graduate projects have an advantage and how do we help still the incubation projects.
Tracy Kuhrt: yeah i'm glad you said that, I know I because I was thinking something similar right my brain went well at what point do we start to discourage incubation right.
Tracy Kuhrt: Because we were giving all of the the highlight to the graduate at projects right.
Tracy Kuhrt: You know, because you could take that to an extreme and and really do a disservice to the the people who are trying to build the next new thing right, which is what you what you would expect to find in in labs or an incubation.
Tracy Kuhrt: And, and the next new thing is, is, I think, just as important as the things that we want to be stable and graduate it so.
Tracy Kuhrt: Have the same exact not as you, and so I think there is an interesting tension and interesting balance that we're going to have to bring to all of this.
Tracy Kuhrt: All right, any other thoughts on this document before we move to the next topic.
Peter Somogyvari: Someone mentioned the converting the document into your chart format and I want to pass on that idea what I envisioned was.
Peter Somogyvari: Some product landing page where they have the free tier the protein the enterprise here, and then you have these.
Peter Somogyvari: list of features that are included and there's always this.
Peter Somogyvari: pattern of how the number of features are growing, so you want to be on the enterprise to which is so best.
Peter Somogyvari: Talking that's that's something that a lot of people spend a lot of times and it's immediately clear that the the best to to talk to you is to carrot and you should get there.
yeah.
Tracy Kuhrt: thanks for that Peter so right.
Tracy Kuhrt: David I hope that's.
Tracy Kuhrt: been valuable.
Tracy Kuhrt: As far as feedback.
David Boswell: yeah absolutely especially making the more digestible will definitely play around with the format and then maybe when that's more clear, we can discuss do we have the balance right between how much easier has of each.
Tracy Kuhrt: sounds good.
Tracy Kuhrt: Alright, so if we look at the next topic.
Tracy Kuhrt: This is a topic that I saw someone mentioned and throughout in last week's meeting, but I wanted to put it up for some sort of discussion to see in general, what people are thinking.
Tracy Kuhrt: Specifically, because we do have a number of overdue project reports, I was thinking, what can we do about that right, I again maybe this is more stick than it is a carrot.
Tracy Kuhrt: But should we be moving projects to a dormant state if we haven't heard from a particular project within a given amount of time.
Tracy Kuhrt: With their project reports so want to open that up for discussion and see if anybody had thoughts on that if it sounded like a good idea, bad idea or had other sorts of thoughts on how we can encourage people to put together their project reports for the PSC right.
Ry Jones: This one to give a little bit of an historical context here in that we did when composer transition.
Ry Jones: It was, I think a year or so after they stopped filing updates before there was any official move to to transition, the project.
Ry Jones: And it was, I think that was hard on everybody, and so I would I would encourage the members of the tasc to.
Ry Jones: find a way to to enact this and you know.
Ry Jones: Not not make it so punitive but acknowledge reality, so that people can understand the shape of the thing better.
Tracy Kuhrt: yeah I mean right part of the reason that the project reports were put together.
Tracy Kuhrt: was to ensure that the projects were in some sort of healthy state right, we were having a hard time as a TC trying to understand kind of a status of projects and what was happening.
Tracy Kuhrt: With those projects and and really This is our This is our insight into each of the projects.
Tracy Kuhrt: Hopefully we'll get a bit more insight, now that we are going to be attending meetings to see how things are actually running but definitely a piece.
Tracy Kuhrt: The other piece that I would say is that, in looking at the domain state as we wrote it up, it was supposed to be, at the request of the projects, so this would be changing kind of the thinking around that as well you know.
Danno Ferrin: So yeah I remember when we talked about the current state we discuss the possibility of involuntary dormancy but we never We said we cross that bridge when we get there, and I think we're quickly getting there.
Danno Ferrin: With one of the projects on here that's now a month late, and I think a year between reports is too long ago the Germans, because another thing about dorfman's.
Danno Ferrin: Is you can revive the project from dormancy it's not like dedicated to say we're done can't use the names to a fork in it, you know.
Danno Ferrin: If a project has legitimate reason why they've been dormant you know, or maybe not so the reason, then they get their act together, they can say hey we're back we're going to do good you know move us back to incubation.
Danno Ferrin: So I think you know, we should consider what thresholds on project reports is one of the triggers for involuntary and I think if you miss a full quarter, I think we should have a vote on it.
Danno Ferrin: The question is, if they're consistently late, you know, maybe not, but I think that's you know, to put a red herring out there to start the discussion that I would suggest that.
Danno Ferrin: A project, and this is a full quarter report, we should it's not forest, but we should have a vote in the discussion on involuntary norman's.
Tracy Kuhrt: Okay, all right.
Aruna S M: i'll couple of points first is related to.
Aruna S M: Government state governments state, as you said, sounds like an informed decision by project.
Aruna S M: TEAM members, they come together and then they say to tsa hey, this is the period that we're going let's say quiet for a period and and will probably come back.
Aruna S M: Maybe we need revision on to that destination and what we are planning under dominant state right so just because a project is and adornment we cannot move it to.
Aruna S M: Right, so I think my thought process was to introduce a new state, but if that something that we can edit under the Dom and state itself that's something we should look into the second point I wanted to bring out was.
Aruna S M: Maybe a report says not submitting reports is not the only reason why we should consider this there could be other reasons that we should look into and I would request more additional time to think through that.
Tracy Kuhrt: Okay yeah definitely I there could be other reasons that we might want to decide that.
Tracy Kuhrt: project should head towards dormant state, so you know if there's things that people can think about this was just in my face as far as the overdue project report so that that seemed like an obvious sort of thing to to have a discussion around right.
Ry Jones: sure there is.
Ry Jones: One more thing there, which is.
Ry Jones: You know, get up also you know lots of smart stuff is read only or whatever archived.
Ry Jones: So there could be you know that's that would be really rude to come into a project and just archive all the repos i'm not saying we should do that, but that is.
Ry Jones: If you're looking at a project and the repos are not active and not archived like if you've got 40 open bugs you know 100 and reviewed PRS that could also be the trigger and then Oh, I see what you sent me and I will post it in the chat.
Danno Ferrin: That was to individualize supposed to all I posted that into the chat so one thing we should look at is the definition of dormant.
Danno Ferrin: It does say there that the TC will make the decision is where the project is a dormant to or from Georgia state, upon request, and it doesn't see your question.
Danno Ferrin: I mean, I guess what applications requesting the project.
Danno Ferrin: But you know.
Danno Ferrin: it's you know that the definition is projects and dormant or ones with normal functions are suspended or slow down for a period of time, and I think that the the CSC realizing that that's the current state of the project and current functioning.
Danno Ferrin: You know, I think.
Danno Ferrin: I think I think it's within bounds the definition, but i'm willing to be you know discussed on it.
Tracy Kuhrt: Okay, Peter.
Peter Somogyvari: I read that anytime that happens, we should vote on it, and we should have context and then, if they missed the report or two, and now we are considering it, then you should also reach out via the normal channels email and chat and just flat out ask them or you don't.
Peter Somogyvari: And if no one is even there to respond and it would be much easier on my conscience, for example, to vote saying yes that's it on a project let's pull the plug but if they respond and say oh.
Peter Somogyvari: The lead maintainer was an accident and then out of work for months, but now we're back, so please give us some more time than I would say in the vote, I would say.
Peter Somogyvari: Well let's give them some more time, so I think they should make it part of the process to just get a little more context from the projects and then vote.
Tracy Kuhrt: yeah definitely i'm Peter, and I know that.
Tracy Kuhrt: When we started out this TC term Dino had volunteered to once a project went past it's due date for the project report reach out to that project to let them know that they had.
Tracy Kuhrt: You know missed a reporting, if you will, and so I think you know.
Tracy Kuhrt: We could make the assumption, and we can confirm with Daniel right that that is truly happening, and that he has reached out to these projects that are overdue and maybe hasn't returned or received a response back from them.
Danno Ferrin: Yet for this week's but for bro they've done three beings to by email and one by chat group.
yeah.
Tracy Kuhrt: So.
Nathan George: And I mean let's acknowledge the reality of this, we would reach out to them anyway, for this report, most of the steps we have to do to determine whether they're dormant or not, or the same steps we're doing just to try to hunt down the report.
Nathan George: So it's not like it's a lot of additional work.
Nathan George: And as a tlc we consider a project going into dormant a bit sad like it's not something we want to have happen and we would do it to someone else.
Nathan George: You know, deliberately against their will, or in any way maliciously what we do want to acknowledge reality, because we realized that being an active project, it takes work.
Nathan George: and hopefully moving a project that's struggling to even submit a report is a relief.
Nathan George: We want to relieve that burden and get let them focus on the things that will help their project become active as opposed to being you know, in the middle of trying to you know figure out incubation requirements or you know.
Nathan George: cater to the requests of the tasc about status when there's really not much going on, so.
Nathan George: I think that this seems really reasonable that if you miss a whole quarter report, and no one can get Ahold of you.
Nathan George: That the tsp would ask hey are you guys dharma it's not an answer that has a predetermined conclusion and we're not going to try to move a project to dormant that doesn't want to go to dormant.
Nathan George: we're going to ask them, so what are you doing to be active and I don't think it's anything more than just trying to acknowledge the reality to reduce the amount of burden on everyone that's that's trying to do a good job with their project.
Tracy Kuhrt: alright.
Tracy Kuhrt: Thanks Nathan heart.
Hart Montgomery: um yeah and I guess, I know that that sort of borough is on everybody's mind, I guess, so I assume.
Hart Montgomery: danna has reached out to silas on this.
Hart Montgomery: i'd be curious to hear what.
Hart Montgomery: silas had to say about this.
Danno Ferrin: And also, aside from silence that's the problem.
Hart Montgomery: Okay yeah and i'll say sorry about my quarterly report, this was quite the week to to miss the email on it.
Danno Ferrin: I think one or two weeks is in a crisis, I think three months is really the threshold.
Tracy Kuhrt: yeah yeah I heard this definitely wasn't wasn't trying to call you out a way, shape or form for missing this week, we think that we seem to have had some this one's quite quite a bit here it's just a.
Tracy Kuhrt: more a question of.
Tracy Kuhrt: You know these long term ones that are on my mind so.
Tracy Kuhrt: I don't know if your hand is still up or if you wanted it okay great i'm Nathan.
Nathan George: I would even say we don't mind a little bit of quarterly report rebellion as long as they're here and actively rebelling.
Nathan George: it's just we want to acknowledge the reality of if the products truly dominant don't get Ahold of someone that's a really bad contributor experience if someone's trying to use the project for someone's trying to fix something.
Tracy Kuhrt: For sure no.
Danno Ferrin: rebellion is an indicator of life and that's really what we're looking for.
Grace Hartley: Is that mean I get to skip the basic quarterly report next week.
Hart Montgomery: grace grace is the same thing.
Tracy Kuhrt: You know we're not having a meeting next week guys, but at the same time, definitely have it done for the first week of January, so I don't have to call you out.
Tracy Kuhrt: All right, any other comments on this particular topic.
Tracy Kuhrt: It sounds like we're all fairly much in agreement would it be worthwhile for me to you.
Tracy Kuhrt: I go ahead and write up some sort of decision log entry for us to take a look at when we come back in here.
Arnaud J Le Hors (IBM): sounds good to me.
Tracy Kuhrt: Okay, I will work on that, then.
Tracy Kuhrt: Alright, so.
Tracy Kuhrt: We do still have about six minutes left.
Tracy Kuhrt: Would anybody from the task force, we have to task force out there, I think grace and a room, would you like to provide an update on kind of where you're at if there's anything that stands out to you that might be useful for the rest of the gst to know about.
Aruna S M: Or, I can go first and probably make it short, so we had our first congregation our first meeting early this week and.
Aruna S M: There was enough interest that I received through email but However, I could not see that getting translated onto our attendance on that call.
Aruna S M: However, i'm pushing hard to get more participation from all the projects as much as possible to the task force now, apart from the participation, there were really.
Aruna S M: Good points made out and during the call and thanks to all of you who contributed to those thoughts and there have been couple of action items noted down.
Aruna S M: The main action items are going to be around, how do we measure.
Aruna S M: criticality of particular vulnerability that gets reported right, how do we even measure that if it is a generic bug versus something that needs attention.
Aruna S M: And what's the score on which we should decide on, I mean decide the criticality plus there was an action item on on coming up with a.
Aruna S M: questionnaire for deciding for a particular maintain or how to report.
Aruna S M: It let me open up.
Aruna S M: These Task Force agenda item but at a high level meeting minutes has been posted on the task force wiki page So if you have any comments on those open.
Aruna S M: Items or maybe any of the notes items on that page please feel free to comment, and please do join our next call that would be three weeks from now, mostly in first week of Chan.
Tracy Kuhrt: Alright, thanks I did just put a link out to the wider Security Task Force on the TC chat so definitely have a look and let her know if you're interested or can provide some insight into what your different projects are doing related to security.
Tracy Kuhrt: Great any update for us.
Grace Hartley: yeah I think most of the group is update but um we're currently interesting.
Grace Hartley: data gathering mode for the chat Task Force and understanding how.
Grace Hartley: The different communities within communities across hyper ledger use different channels.
Grace Hartley: Our next meeting will be the first week of January.
Grace Hartley: The ideas to share their the kind of final.
Grace Hartley: inputs and then maybe start to put together a proposal kind of here, maybe the you know, two or three kind of options that we have.
Grace Hartley: The what we're hoping is, by the end of January to have kind of a recommendation and be able to implement, because obviously you know aligning on the chat channel strategy is important for facilitating our Community, we don't want to draw it out, you will.
Tracy Kuhrt: also put a link to the Community chat Task Force out there as well.
Tracy Kuhrt: So I think there's been lots of good discussions in that particular task force so far.
Tracy Kuhrt: um yeah with that I think that's our agenda, unless there's anything that anybody else would like to add.
Ry Jones: Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
Tracy Kuhrt: Thanks right, yes, definitely everybody enjoy.
Tracy Kuhrt: The holidays and have a great new year yeah and we will see you at the end of 2020.
Daniela Barbosa: And thank you all once again for all your contributions and support of our Community so happy holidays to all and have a great hopefully everybody gets a some rest and enjoyment their family and friends so happy holidays.
Dave Enyeart: Okay.
Dave Enyeart: bye.
Everyone.
Kamlesh Nagware: Getting my dates.