David Boswell: yeah and just as a reminder, if you record locally you'll have access to the file if you record to the cloud i'll have to grab it for you.
Josh Horton: I just hit record is what is it.
David Boswell: Oh, it doesn't hmm.
David Boswell: When I, it gives me the option to either record locally or to the cloud when I record, but if it's not giving you the option.
Josh Horton: i'll look at that for next time.
Josh Horton: yeah.
David Boswell: Thank you, and just REACH, if you don't see it locally, on your side, the recording email me later, and I can look on the zoom side and see if it recorded to the cloud.
Josh Horton: will do thanks.
David Boswell: Alright cool well we'll have a call.
Josh Horton: Right yeah.
Dave Enyeart: hey josh if you're talking you're on you.
Josh Horton: hi can you hear me now.
Josh Horton: Yes, Okay, I was just done with David boswell and it was working so I don't know if there's a problem switching the host.
Josh Horton: or not.
Josh Horton: Okay.
Dave Enyeart: you're good to go now.
Josh Horton: All right, good and i'm going to try to share the agenda.
here.
Josh Horton: Okay i'm gonna stop the video and see if I can share the screen and talk see if that works okay.
Dave Enyeart: And you just got muted again.
Josh Horton: hey folks i'm having trouble sharing my screen as soon as I share it's putting me on mute for some reason.
Josh Horton: thanks for your patience.
Dave Enyeart: So you just got muted, again, the first time you shared with you're not muted.
Dave Enyeart: And then, this time you got muted, again I don't know if you're doing something different.
Josh Horton: Did you see the agenda, though, when I tried to share before.
Dave Enyeart: yeah I think I saw the wiki for a minute.
Josh Horton: yeah it's yeah and then it went away.
Josh Horton: We try restarting the meeting well I don't want to have to connect again though um.
Josh Horton: I guess for today we'll we'll talk through the agenda you don't necessarily have to see it.
Josh Horton: While i'm sharing, you can go to the agenda link which, all I can put in the chat and we can do cover the topics that way.
Josh Horton: let's figure out what's going on with zoom.
Josh Horton: Okay sorry folks the there's something going on with my screen share where it mutes me when i'm sharing, so I put the in the chat I put the link to the agenda for today so.
Josh Horton: If you don't, mind you, can you can click on that link and we can talk through the agenda without me actually sharing it.
Josh Horton: Okay, Jim sharing it for us okay.
Jim Mason: share it so Can you see it.
Josh Horton: yeah good yeah that works too, thank you.
Jim Mason: Joel it's like i'm super zoom and you're just regular zone.
Josh Horton: I can get you can share whatever.
Josh Horton: You have.
Josh Horton: You have super user power here, well, thank you alright so yeah you're good where you are so let's let's leave it there, so just a quick review from this year, since we just started these up in February.
Josh Horton: i'll hit on some of the things we discussed last in recent calls quickly and then review the more recent updates so thanks to the postpone we had a.
Josh Horton: There was a holiday last week so.
Josh Horton: We suggested postponing the meeting by a week to allow for the holiday so yeah that's that's the scheduling redo that we did.
Josh Horton: So for new folks this year we we have a new fabric gateway service that we published documentation on and the link is there.
Josh Horton: i'm.
Josh Horton: Developing applications we reviewed and edited and remove some material because of the new method for developing Apps for the new fabric gateway so if anyone's looking for the old way.
Josh Horton: of developing Apps that still exists in the previous version of fabric docs but we remove those topics from the current latest to four version of docs.
Dave Enyeart: To avoid.
Dave Enyeart: These confusing because it says developing applications published, but it was actually developing applications was removed right.
Josh Horton: Well, there were updates.
Dave Enyeart: And then the whole thing was removed wasn't it.
Josh Horton: Not for the new material.
Dave Enyeart: Okay, but it's not called developing applications anymore right well it used to be called developing applications is all gone now right.
Jim Mason: So what's the title of the topic that's replaced it.
Josh Horton: So i'll double check these but um.
Josh Horton: Whatever you see into for for developing applications is the new gateway.
Dave Enyeart: But but it's not the name developing applications and it's not the link that you have, which is getting started, so I.
Dave Enyeart: think you need to update that.
Josh Horton: i'd be happy to update the agenda, I think the link is where we want to go.
Dave Enyeart: Okay, carry on.
Josh Horton: yeah The point is that we want the docs to be clear right you're still developing applications into for it's not like that's not happening, but there is a new method for doing so right, so we want that to be clear in the docs and i'll.
Josh Horton: i'll update the agenda here to make that clearer to folks.
Josh Horton: So.
Josh Horton: I think you meant be there.
Dave Enyeart: Yes, they if.
Josh Horton: You said number.
Josh Horton: I don't know if you can be or or three so managing certs see that's publishing soon matt white and I were working on.
Josh Horton: i'm sorry this is, I was thinking of chain Code as a service so managing certs is on the verge of being public few of us have been working on that and iterating.
Josh Horton: back and forth so.
Josh Horton: With the holiday that was delayed slightly, but should be public soon chain Code as a service matt Matthew white and I have been working on Doc there.
Josh Horton: So we had chain Code as a service Doc previously but wanted to clarify that that was really for advanced users and the new chain Code as a service Doc is for.
Josh Horton: Trying it out on the test network so that's going to be published shortly just some PR mechanics to to work through and then i'll update the the.
Josh Horton: At the agenda, but the Minutes with those links so so that's what we've been working on since last call.
Josh Horton: Other details that we're looking at and don't want to forget or some image updates from gateway but also some more.
Josh Horton: Some legacy diagrams and so on, related to the new gateway and we did get some contributions from that from the Community so that's excellent, and those are going to be in the issues repo so.
Josh Horton: i'll be tracking that work and and publishing from there also.
Josh Horton: So one of the things we want to do from a broad perspective is kind of look at improving the whole structure of the library and how we can make it easier to consume and etc.
Josh Horton: One of the examples, there is the key concepts area right, so I started to look at it, I don't have a proposal done yet, but I will.
Josh Horton: So we're trying to focus on all right, these are key concepts, but for whole and to achieve what right what a key concept for one person or user may not be key for someone else so.
Josh Horton: The same sort of thing exists, if you look at the operations guides there's a clear list of the mall.
Josh Horton: But we could do a little better with the ux with the user experience on categorizing those also, in addition to key concepts for the user for specific users and what they want to achieve, whether they might be a developer or.
Josh Horton: Network admin or network architect so.
Josh Horton: happy to have folks volunteer and contribute to those areas as always.
Josh Horton: See I don't think we need to go through the github issues.
Josh Horton: But they're there, everyone should have access to open new ones or volunteer to work on existing ones, and then translation is sort of a ongoing issue that I need to look at.
Josh Horton: More broadly.
Josh Horton: short term that's that's on the back burner so.
Josh Horton: yeah Jimmy I think that's it right.
Jim Mason: yeah seven is the bottom.
Josh Horton: that's the end.
Jim Mason: Okay, so we read it.
Josh Horton: So we reached the end so hopefully that gives folks an update on where we're at I do schedule these calls for an hour, but to this point we've only used the first 30 minutes.
Josh Horton: we'll keep the second half hour for future for special topics or deeper dives on things that if anyone wants to present or ask about having a presentation on on that.
Josh Horton: um.
Josh Horton: So I think that's all I wanted to say, for this week does anyone have questions or want to talk about anything else.
Jim Mason: Nothing much i'm just looking at the new structure, the latest version of read the docs out there and you're right the deploying applications stuff is gone what's sorry developing applications topic is gone.
Jim Mason: And said, you have a code promoted, so to speak, a lot of tutorials you have getting started install getting started run fabric.
Jim Mason: supplying the production network as a separate conflict, which is good.
Jim Mason: Operations guides it does look like somehow the Channel stuff got what I call a lot of promotion or visibility in the Doc.
Jim Mason: in the sense that.
Jim Mason: So.
Jim Mason: into somebody's credit, I can see, when I look at the monthly reading me.
Jim Mason: This topic under security or sorry identity, the identity topic what's interesting is.
Jim Mason: It the way it works is it's up an educational, which is good what's not clear easily is the options, you have within fabric right So my question is as an example.
Jim Mason: You can use channels, if you want to have multiple channels and a fabric environment.
Jim Mason: But the other side of it is most of the applications i've worked on only use one channel period, you know default channel and that's it they're not set up to leverage channels for any purpose what i'm not seeing as guidance on those features.
Jim Mason: at a high level.
Jim Mason: Do you know what I mean so.
Josh Horton: i'd yeah.
Jim Mason: i'm coming in, as well i'm a guy that used to be here who's no longer here coming back the fabric now.
Jim Mason: You know.
Jim Mason: from other deities and i'm looking and saying myself Okay, so I got a bunch of features, but what i'm not getting his direction on.
Jim Mason: And I to be very fair I like the detail i'm getting when I look at like the identity topic as an example as well done, but that said i'm not getting high level roadmaps on the features and where I might want to use them if that makes sense.
Josh Horton: yeah it does make a lot of sense.
Jim Mason: sort of as i'm actually doing this right now i'm writing a dlp concepts Doc for my company.
Jim Mason: But it sort of spans it's not targeted toward fabric it's targeted toward looking at what's common across a bunch of different deities.
Jim Mason: And then, trying to get you to understand the concepts and the principles and then think about you know your use case, and you know the choices, you would make for that, if that makes sense.
Josh Horton: yeah it makes a lot of sense it's a common topic for Doc updates right is.
Josh Horton: make it more applicable to specific users and specific use cases right.
Josh Horton: yeah how do I decide is.
Josh Horton: is one way to phrase it guidance is another right.
Josh Horton: So we have a lot of information, but we can improve on how to apply it right what.
Josh Horton: what's, what do you get out of choice, a versus choice B, whether that be for channels or identities yeah okay yeah I fully agree, and thanks for pointing that out well.
Josh Horton: that's certainly something we can formally look at improving so i'll create an issue related to that, and so we can sort of break down what the tasks would be there.
Josh Horton: You start with one example, such as identity or channels and.
Josh Horton: yeah one of those examples clear yes and i'll just the identity one.
Jim Mason: i'm looking at the concepts part of that, and which is really nice so it's sort of well well actually I just to pick identity actually if I look at that.
Jim Mason: If you look at the read the docs the topic to me the topics upgraded the content is upgraded, from what I had been familiar with a couple years ago for sure.
Jim Mason: it's nicely laid out and so on basic concepts which is really good.
Jim Mason: What i'll say, though, is I don't have an easier navigation here so i've actually got a there's no table of contents at the top for identity you don't mean, so we have a table of contents in the Left margin.
Jim Mason: It says here's your major topics and if you're looking for something go there, you can do a search the docs but what you don't get is an organization for the topic like identity there's no table of contents under identity to say.
Jim Mason: yeah here's the topics.
Josh Horton: So i'm right so it's hard to it's hard to navigate and harder to navigate in a sense, it costs more time let's put that way to navigate this kind of APP right understood.
Josh Horton: And that's part of.
Josh Horton: Improving it for user right which sequence or which topics are going to apply and can they get to those easily and logically when they need them yeah.
Dave Enyeart: i'm sorry, can you share the Doc you're talking about so that we can see what you mean.
Jim Mason: Oh i'm actually on a different machine, I was leaving this thing up so sure why not let me uh.
Jim Mason: let's go down here.
Jim Mason: let's go.
Jim Mason: And so, if I go here let's tie this.
Jim Mason: This is to to go down here grab the latest.
Jim Mason: And then the latest you can see the topics are all different, obviously, but not all different that's not true, but developing applications is gone and so on.
Jim Mason: If I do jumping into.
Jim Mason: concepts.
Jim Mason: So you can see my screen okay right.
Josh Horton: yeah thanks yeah.
Jim Mason: So now i'm going to jump into loops.
Jim Mason: And key concepts.
Josh Horton: yeah you had if you're looking for identity so.
Jim Mason: What so here here's.
Jim Mason: Like them all here but here's a Daddy as an example, so here it's like I like the content, I can see it's a quote upgraded from what we had done a couple years ago but.
Jim Mason: um I don't I should have a table of contents here is it sort of a subheading that says okay under identity here's all the topics and this and the one thing that doesn't jump out.
Jim Mason: It explains what these are, how they can be used, and so on, it doesn't explain, if I have any options.
Jim Mason: No section on and maybe it doesn't apply here but i'll say it any of the concept sections, if I have options.
Jim Mason: on how to configure this thing or use it one of those two words configure use it, I would expect to see a topic specifically called out not have to drill through all of this to figure that out different I mean so.
Jim Mason: Like your identity.
Jim Mason: You know, somewhere, I would say at the top, you know, we have the ability to create identities within fabric.
Jim Mason: But, looking at this concept I don't see that I have the ability to use an identity from any other source right.
Jim Mason: As a.
Jim Mason: with another identity.
Jim Mason: provider recording to this, you know what I mean.
Josh Horton: Right fully agree.
Jim Mason: And so, if i'm thinking about what can I do with fabric, it would be nice to know up front.
Jim Mason: You know, we have a quote identity support built into the platform and, if I have the ability to use external identities, in a way, tell me that no Sir, not to go find it so that there's something message for each of the concepts i'd say we're missing a usage section for sure.
Josh Horton: agree.
Josh Horton: We look we'd likely have some of that for at least some of those topics right it's just it's not easily navigated or retrieved so.
Josh Horton: that's step one is i'll take an example, or or whoever wants to work on it, of course, take an example, like identity.
Josh Horton: and see what it what might be missing for options.
Josh Horton: yep and if it's not missing will improve the navigation, if it is missing will look at developing new topics for yeah.
Josh Horton: yeah thanks for demonstrating that, so we start with one example, like identity get a good method pattern together.
Josh Horton: For that, and then duplicate you'll get that some ux testing on that method.
Josh Horton: See.
Josh Horton: don't want to assume it works right, the best thing is to get it in front of users yeah and duplicate a successful pattern for the other topics that's that's a good strategy yeah.
Dave Enyeart: Jim can you go back to identity.
Jim Mason: For let me jump right back there yeah.
Dave Enyeart: I did want to show you there is a sub page table of contents over on the left there see that.
Dave Enyeart: So that those are the section headers.
Dave Enyeart: You were looking at that on top, though.
yeah.
Jim Mason: Yes, it was actually.
Dave Enyeart: Or you just.
Jim Mason: do that, no, no, no, I didn't actually was looking at, to be honest, I would just.
Jim Mason: Put the main topic blue open and you're writing more the fact that it's on the left, and in fact actually that's probably more my fault, because when I build documentation.
Jim Mason: I always try to put a sub menu under the main topic just you know so you're seeing it in the flow but you're right, it is over in the left, which is fine.
Jim Mason: And then you know back to the point of this talks about defining what identity is from our purpose, which is really good, well done, but then.
Jim Mason: there's nothing on the concept of quickly summarizing the usage of identity within fabric at a high level what it is sure I got it right here, can I use another identity provider Would I be able to use, you know off or.
Jim Mason: What is it oh.
Jim Mason: Open identity connect oh IDC.
Jim Mason: SSI any of those things right so there's nothing about that and I don't know where as an example, if I were to ask you.
Jim Mason: Where i'm a new guy coming on fabric and maybe i'm coming from quarter or some other place and you're saying okay.
Jim Mason: Jim needs to understand quickly what identity, not what identity is which this defines very nicely, but rather what identity capabilities for usage exists in the fabric fabric platform where would I go to find that.
Josh Horton: yeah.
Jim Mason: Fair this is concepts which is exactly what it's supposed to be.
Jim Mason: If I go here i'll say under operating guides i'm probably going to get the mechanics of how to do a lot of that right on the identity stuff right here.
Josh Horton: yeah.
Jim Mason: So I thought mechanics but i'm not in the sort of the you I would expect in the concepts area.
Jim Mason: i'm not only just learning what identity is but i'm thinking about how to use it.
Josh Horton: at a high level yeah for sure.
Jim Mason: And and that's the part that I don't see there at all.
Josh Horton: yeah I agree a lot of the content was somewhat legacy from when blockchain was in its early days and.
Josh Horton: we're focused on educating people right.
Jim Mason: yeah so.
Jim Mason: Like.
Josh Horton: The evolution towards application, maybe hasn't kept up as much as it could so for sure we'll look at that.
Jim Mason: yeah so.
Jim Mason: i'm trying to do comparisons on a lot of things like on platforms, as an example, so.
Jim Mason: In my case i'm trying to compare lips.
Jim Mason: yeah so here's the thing I just went through at a high level to say here's three different networks quarter fabric and a theorem and then trying to sort of categorize use cases and some other information about that.
Josh Horton: You know what this is, this is a table that you developed.
Jim Mason: yeah but basically looking at different sources and part of the problem on my end, obviously, as you go to people who wrote good content, you know, a year ago and it's no longer current because fabric changed quarter change theory.
Jim Mason: And so you're trying to make take something like that and update it The other thing is.
Jim Mason: All these platforms, they tend to get labeled and say fabric is good for supply chain.
Jim Mason: You know quarter is better for finance whatever it is people make up these generalizations and part of the problem is to say no wait a minute.
Jim Mason: You really have the capability, like in my case i've written permission list applications and fabric well that's not really what it's intended for but it's possible right.
Jim Mason: And, just like you'd say a theorem is a public blockchain but on the other hand, you can make it permission as well.
Josh Horton: Right now.
Jim Mason: So they're trying to overcome what I call it the labeling it says this is for that and.
Jim Mason: This is for something else, the reality is it's more complex than that.
Josh Horton: that's right.
Jim Mason: And so you know going through use cases governance is a big issue.
Jim Mason: And i'm just labeling the governance organizations here, but the reality is how the networks are governed.
Jim Mason: how you can do different types of transactions on them it's not the simple thing of consensus methods which do exist, you know different models and so on.
Jim Mason: But anyway, try to come up with some of these comparisons.
Jim Mason: As a starting point, which is a challenge.
Josh Horton: Is this public.
Jim Mason: This is all know this is internal for the company, I worked for Okay, they asked me to.
Jim Mason: Because they're using they've used a bunch of different deal teas and they said hey put something together that's you know more of an overview that poses together conceptually.
Jim Mason: But then says Okay, you know explain where where they're different were there something in common kind of a deal, and so, to be fair, like the when I looked at good articles that other people have done.
Jim Mason: The FAB token stuff wasn't in there right so when you look at token support they didn't have anything about the new FAB token stuff that was donated from IBM, and then the same thing on the core decide they already had a token network out there, you know that was in a sense, under.
Jim Mason: awkward advertised, if you will.
Jim Mason: So.
Josh Horton: Anyway, there's a bunch of if you're yeah so if you're finding any.
Josh Horton: specific content technical details in for that are missing and fabric, if you could.
Josh Horton: Let me know I could open a.
Josh Horton: niche yeah so we can address it, or you can open an issue and in the fabric Repo for it.
Jim Mason: yeah and so yes right i'll definitely go through, as I work on stuff i'll go through the existing documentation, we have like I say the quality of it looks to be really, really good but um my mind, is more usage oriented.
Josh Horton: Right.
Josh Horton: Sure okay.
Jim Mason: So and that's where i'm coming from is trying to.
Josh Horton: yeah I mean that's something I can address.
Josh Horton: sooner, and you know with less reliance on an SME so.
Josh Horton: yeah we'll start with identity.
and
Josh Horton: see what happens.
Okay.
Josh Horton: Great Thank you yes.
yeah.
Josh Horton: Great Jim Thank you anyone else with any comments or questions for today.
Jim Mason: Oh, one of the things as, since we have Dave on the meeting today Dave I know we use the rfc to indicate a request for new features that are out there and github.
Jim Mason: And I know you're going through those you know, on a regular basis to figure out what looks to have acquired in popularity value whatever, but do we have.
Jim Mason: more formal product roadmaps anywhere.
Dave Enyeart: We have a wiki page, let me see if.
Jim Mason: And i'm thinking of stuff that in a sense, you have committed to so we're on what version of what's the next version is a 25262525 so.
Jim Mason: i'm sure I can go find up, it was either used to be in jira maybe it's on github now, but I can probably find what's what looks to be stuff that's plan for to five it's maybe not a.
Jim Mason: finished product but you'd say it looks like we're focused on these for features for two five.
Jim Mason: And here's some other features that are important to we don't know that they're going to make it to five something like that.
Jim Mason: But when I go to other platforms, sometimes they have longer term roadmap that will say, well, we don't do this.
Jim Mason: But our but we give you the idea that this is an attempt an intent that a future point, maybe not to five or near term release but it's an intent to look at.
Jim Mason: Enabling that support so as an example, a common thing for me would be you know when would fabric, be able to work with SSI identities, you know from India as an example.
Jim Mason: You don't I mean and that wouldn't be on or it might be on a roadmap long term but it wouldn't be in a near term release if that makes sense.
Dave Enyeart: yeah so let me share I can show you.
Jim Mason: What we have on the way.
Jim Mason: Let me stop sharing.
Jim Mason: Is when people are looking at platforms it's trying to get a handle on.
Jim Mason: What do I do now, in the current release and then you know what's the roadmap look like and i'm working with some of these other deal to vendors and.
Jim Mason: Unfortunately they don't have good product management, so what they'll say to me is things like we can code whatever you want it's like well wait a minute that's not the point you know I really want to have a product, and then I want to use the product that's two different things right.
Dave Enyeart: yeah so about once a quarter we kind of have talked about this, the roadmap on the contributor cough, and this was the last one, we did so, these are kind of things beyond to.
Jim Mason: write.
Dave Enyeart: The current things were like the gateway was in the two for release the purging private data stores for gdpr scenarios that's kind of the main feature in the two five release and then these are kind of the more future ones so we're starting.
Dave Enyeart: To support we have.
Dave Enyeart: An rfc out there for that and some work started on that.
Dave Enyeart: And then, some of these other things are the some of the next priorities.
Jim Mason: Oh perfect yeah so that's a great page then and so stupidly is that something that we might link to in what I call the references section in our Doc.
Jim Mason: You don't I mean if i'm over here in the user Doc and saying okay at the bottom is their references section, they would want me back to some of the other github resources like this.
Dave Enyeart: let's see.
Jim Mason: I would think in read the docs there would be, as you know, quarter references section right in the main table that would point me back to some of these cool resources when you're first coming into the block.
Dave Enyeart: And the get on the main page there's a link to the.
Dave Enyeart: wiki but you're right in the Doc itself.
Dave Enyeart: not sure if we have that.
Jim Mason: Because I would think there'd be a references section or something that has other external stuff that's outside of the read the docs repo.
Dave Enyeart: Other it is released roadmap.
Dave Enyeart: What we say here is actually look at the github issues with the epic label so that's kind of a different view of it.
Jim Mason: Yes, right.
Dave Enyeart: We could.
Dave Enyeart: Make into the wiki here as well.
Jim Mason: yeah so anyway it's.
Jim Mason: Perfect okay.
Josh Horton: yeah it's fully public right, so no.
Jim Mason: It is public that's right it's not an access issue, which is nice yeah yeah actually that's a rent I will say that to be fair that's a huge one among say hyper ledger in general.
Jim Mason: But certainly it beats what I call the commercial offerings where a lot of times just the documentation is not even public, which is good.
Jim Mason: cool.
Josh Horton: Thank you guys so some valuable input Jim Thank you so.
Josh Horton: let's uh let's keep track of it in github i'll do my part i'll create the identities.
Josh Horton: Work and and will map that out as a model so and then the other details we can get those in in fairly short order, I think.
Jim Mason: cool.
Josh Horton: Alright, thanks everybody.
Thank you, a.
Josh Horton: Post, the Minutes so summarize what we covered and who attended and then look forward to next month, thank you.
Dave Enyeart: Thanks guys thanks josh.
Dave Enyeart: See you guys bye bye.