Hi there, it's focus
From Fi's
Your name and number and I'll get back
After leaving a message, you can hang up or press pound for more options.
Hi everyone, Rose here, I see that we've already got 11 participants, but we're going to wait about two or three minutes for whomever else shows up. So let's get started in at about two or three past the hour.
But glad to see everyone who's here.
Rhode Schumann I'm
The director of traffic of these meetings, also known as the chair. But really, director of traffic.
Let's get started. And as others come and join, then they can join us as well. But so glad to see so many new and old faces here today. Before we get started, we have a bit of
Legal business to take care of that starts every meeting, which is the anti trust policy. Notice, so I'll just go through and read that.
The Linux Foundation meetings involve participation by industry competitors and it is the intention of the Linux Foundation to conduct all of its activities in accordance with a clickable antitrust and competition laws.
It is there for extremely important that attendees adhere to meeting agendas and be aware of and not participate in any activities that are prohibited under clickable US state.
Federal or foreign antitrust and competition loss.
Examples of types of actions that are prohibited at Linux Foundation meetings and in connection with Linux Foundation activities are described in the Linux Foundation anteaters policy.
Available at Linux Foundation org slash anti trust dash policy.
If you have questions about these matters, please contact your company council or if you're a member of the Linux Foundation, feel free to contact
Andrew up the groove of the firm as up to growth, which provides legal counsel to the Linux Foundation, and there we are who we are now allowed to start repeating. So
Hello, everyone. Thanks for being here. Perhaps we can do our usual customary round of introduction, just so everybody knows us here. I'm human. I'm the chair and generally just keep us on time and on agenda that further ado, whoever wants to speak. Next, please. Go for it.
can wait. It's here and I'm the Director of application development at the Federal Reserve Bank.
Good to see you. Hi.
John
Hi john
Hi, as Paul Bragg nerd chamber of digital commerce.
Hello from government Ontario.
Hi, its body mascara. From ledger Academy
From Sharon.
Hi everyone this is Pete Teigen with IBM global government team.
And this is Chris when chatzky formerly with blue shift ID, but now with learning machine and here representing sovereign
The government of Ontario transportation
And we have a note from Maris on Souza, which is Hi everyone I'm without speaker right now. This is Mary son from tuber private block chain company from Brazil. Hello, Marcus and thanks for joining.
Hi, this is
This is Lana dad when am an independent consultant, but contribute into hyper ledger on different for them. Sorry, I was a neutral were more network.
I Leonard
Kumar indifferent independent called content and
What came from healthcare project yet and exploring some
Tension people
Thanks.
Hi tomorrow.
Alright, well, I think we can get started, or anyone else who would like to introduce themselves. I see some folks who have chosen not to
Okay, well then, without further ado, I think we can get started. It seems like our main
Activity of today is going to be a really very exciting presentation and I will let the presenter explain himself exactly what the project is going to be, and let him take it away. So would you like to go, Pete.
Sure, thanks very much what me quick share a screen here. First off is my audio OK with everyone you can hear that.
Loud and clear. Perfect. Okay, great.
So what I'm, what I'm going to talk a little bit about this morning, just for a few minutes is the state of Delaware and the project that they've embarked on with respect to block chain and of course we're hyper ledger fits in to their to their journey.
It'll be maybe 10 minutes of just let me highlight some of the key facts around the project and then I'll just open it up for for discussion conversation. I think sometimes the Q AMP. A is probably more beneficial than me just throwing slides in front of everyone.
So with that, let me set a little context to what the Delaware State of Delaware block chain initiative is
They actually started they launched a couple of years ago.
made lots of announcements, like many of our public sector brethren do states or
Other government organizations.
Announced in initiative around black chain and make make all the exciting claims of, you know, we're open for business and we want to take all the benefits of block chain.
And bring it into state government, as well as use it as their economic development engine for the next next big thing in in their state. So, Delaware did something similar and they they started going down a path with a
Very limited view and not a very collaborative effort, I would say, and they quickly realized that it wasn't going the direction that they needed it, too. So they reevaluated their, their path.
And that's where they came to come to engage IBM to help them re strategize their block chain and initiative for the state and kind of get them on a on a different path that they felt was more successful.
So again what the emphasis was there is a much more collaborative kind of approach right from the start.
Quickly recognizing that block chain is a team sport as you've probably heard many of many of the block chain. People talk about
It requires everybody in the network to really come together with a collective value proposition. And that was the difference here.
starting early with what we call the prioritization session. And it's really just an ideation or brainstorming activity with a variety of the
ecosystem partners, all the stakeholders in the state of Delaware and they kind of had some ideas on what they wanted to do so with the Secretary of State's office.
They handle all kinds of activities, but their biggest activity is around corporate registrations, and all of the effects of companies that want to do business in the State or be registered with the state.
And then a second idea around UCC filings. So for those not in the US UCC filings are Uniform Commercial Code and it's a it's a national system really
But each state has their own nuance to it around Denver and creditor relationships and how they file secured liens against
Against debtors for loans that are done in the commercial space, not that different than a
Say a personal credit history, if you will. So if you're familiar with Equifax are trending in some of those kinds of things. It's that same concept, except in the in the business since the enterprise sense. So anyway, those, those two ideas.
Were towards the top of their list on what they wanted to try and experiment with and through this series of collaborative events or workshops with all the different stakeholders, we zeroed in on some very specific use cases in that realm as well as the corporate registration realm.
And where we went with that.
Is really to explore a little further what those use cases would look like from all the different members of this ecosystem in again that that emphasis, all the way through.
That it's really this this team sport idea, and that it can't just be the state of Delaware. That was driving this you know they see themselves as
A sponsor of founder in enabler to get this block chain platform stood up, they quickly realized that a public
blockchain wasn't going to work for their needs. And that's where it came to more of a permission hyper ledger kind of implementation. So working through
A variety of activities we came down to those two use cases that we talked about a couple of other use cases emerged around really integrating all of these together and as we as we move further into the
I'm sorry proof of concept.
We've, we've quickly identified that a convergence of the two use cases is going to drive even more value for the two for all the stakeholders. So the two use cases that came out on top. What they're
Initially calling stock ledger. That's the corporate registration side of it and the UCC filing system converging those two into a
Single Block chain network is really where this is going, along with some peripheral activities around companies that registered to do business in Delaware also will have some digitized.
Online corporate records storage capacity and so you can already start to see some of the offshoots of the early
Which is fantastic because that's all these add ons is what gets everybody excited about what the future potential is for block chain in the state of Delaware. And of course, Delaware looks at it as
We've stood up this capability and now all these other ecosystem members are starting to see value for themselves and want to come along for the journey.
So what we've done so far is isolate or come down to these couple of use cases we have
teased out some of the pain points that we're trying to solve. Because again, with any project like this. We didn't want to be a block chain hammer looking for a nail.
So we really emphasized defining a problem statement of front and then looking at potential ways to solve it.
And in both of these cases block chain emerged and specifically hyper ledger emerged as the better fit for how they wanted to try and solve these pain points.
So that, that's a big lesson, I would say, early on, wherever we have our conversations with governments is don't focus on the technology so much right away but focused on what's the problem and then look at how we try and solve that.
Classic technology implementation. Right. You don't want the technology to lead the discussion.
So we've had a variety of these collaborative workshops interviews with all the different stakeholders involved in again. And that's all part of the consensus building our pardon the pun there but building consensus as we go along. In defining how this solution is going to look
And getting everybody's input, so they feel that they're part of the solution.
What we identified
Is a short cycle to develop a proof of proof of concept and what we're doing here is just testing some in initial functionality and if you can imagine.
A very manual paper driven process with multiple stakeholders all protecting their silos and
Systems. We have legal advisors registered agents, the state itself. The division of corporations within the state as well as the creditors.
Banks finance companies, etc. And companies themselves who service the debtors to borrowers have the capital. So it's really starting with this basic functionality of how do we help them along that very simple process of filing a statement.
In a digitized context and then bring these permission stakeholders involved into the fold at the appropriate time. And here's where an immutable ledger really becomes important, because
If you're filing a claim or lean on a debtor you want that date and timestamp.
To really be your, your legal perfection of your security interest and that's what documents, who has priority over all the other lien holders, so that that whole auditable immutable transaction record or history.
Is is one of the key aspects of why we looked at block chain is the solution here.
You can see that timetables that I just flashed up on the screen here between the UCC filings use case, as well as the stock ledger.
Path. They're pretty pretty tight timetables, when you look at how transformative. This is going to be in the idea is just this quick iteration.
very agile process where we stand up a proof of concept very quickly in a matter of a couple of months and demonstrate that to all the different stakeholders.
Literally have an application that can function with some
Demonstration of block chains benefits and start to start to really coalesce around what the value is that still always a pending question. You know, you always always asking ourselves.
What's the value to the state, what's the value to the registered agent community, what's the value to the legal advisor community as well as the creditors and debtors involved in this.
So the point of that to see after a couple of months is not just demonstrate the technology and the viability of black chain but the value that it delivers to all the members of the of the network here. And then once that's defined and proven moving quickly into a a full scale production.
Where we be standing it up on on a scale hyper ledger application.
And I think just to kind of cap it off, where
Where the Deputy Secretary of State for Delaware really kind of summarized it well in this quote that was published a few weeks ago.
He likened it to starting with us as a strategic advisor to help them architect the building model and build that model.
Of a skyscraper before it goes into construction. That's kind of the stage we're at right now and then they the state using that model to really gauge how valuable, whether it's the right fit. And then look at how it impacts all the different members of this network.
With that, I will
I'll just open up for questions, if that's all right.
Great, thanks for this informative and exciting presentation. Pete and looking forward to the discussion so honored
And and what I wanted to offer is you know I intended this to be just a sort of a 10 minute intro of how Delaware got started.
And then I thought, you know,
If it's all right. We could use another session.
In the future on some more specific drill down into how we're actually developing the block chain solution for each of them. Some of it is not
Ready for public disclosure yet so I have to be careful around what we present, but I think this will give you a good taste of
What has already taken place and how it's
positioned to evolve over the next year.
And then we can use a future session on this community to talk more specifically about how each case is being developed.
open to any questions if anybody wants as well.
So this is
This is, I can't wait. I had a quick question on environment Sulu do be doing a lot of sandbox sing and prototyping. But when it comes time to put something live on the wire this little bit of a struggle and our organization so
It's a state of Delaware doing this on prem, are they using cloud providers and
You know, or something else.
Trying to get some context. So I can try to spend this to our organization.
Yep, great question, and I didn't want to sound too.
Commercial so I didn't mentioned specifically if it's being developed on the IBM blockchain platform with the startup plan and that just creates that sandbox, just like you said, so it's a cloud based not on Chrome for Delaware. That's not to save. That's how the full production.
Scale Production Development will go, but that's the platform we're using to get this started to be able to demonstrate some functionality.
Great, thank you. You know, in of course never know if everybody's aware
But IBM has chosen the hyper ledger fabric as our as our go to protocol for block chain. So all of our block chain platform solutions use fabric and composer and
Some of the other tools in D.
Repeated it's john from DC
Might imagine I have quite a number of questions, but yeah.
So like just yeah definitely would be interested to see more detail.
I'm curious about, for example, in the case of new CC
Transaction like identity and so forth is obviously a big deal.
To how the state of Delaware is sort of approaching that
Can Apple connect
Can I jump in for a quick second on that one, because
As you know, and I'd say Canada in general is further ahead on the whole identity conversation than the US it's still a very politically sensitive topic, whenever we talk about identities and in the US.
Yeah, so
Not just in the individual sense. But even in the corporate registry sense, which is more specific to this you
Actually in Delaware.
Yeah.
Exactly, exactly.
If you, if you
If you've quite the
I think they they're dealing with a headline that just got published within the last week or two about
Sort of a hidden identities and why companies choose to form LL sees in the state of Delaware because they they do have a very flexible.
Sort of anonymous environment that they allow companies to form. And so it's that balance of, how do they continue to foster that environment, but yet really know who you're dealing with
You know some of its going to take legislative change potentially down the road.
So it's, it's not all technology that's the challenge, it's more
More for them it's it's more legislation and political
Pete
Rose here just quick jump in.
For those of us on the call who aren't US citizens, they may not understand the context of Delaware and corporations, if you're from the US. It made me a lot. But if you're not it. It may not be obvious. I'm sure that everybody would appreciate, just a quick contextual ization of that.
Yes, thank you for reminding me of that Delaware's is the state in the US that
More than two thirds of the fortune 500 corporations choose to incorporate in that state.
So the this this use case around corporate registrations, as well as UCC filings.
drives a lot of revenue. It's the biggest state. It's the first state.
Of all that handles this kind of activity corporate registries and UCC filings. So from a context perspective, it's one of the main revenue drivers for the state.
Jumped into with Canadian commentary
In the global context, you know, registration of corporations is moving towards something called beneficial ownership.
Which is that
Currently in most jurisdictions. It's unknown who the humans are that are benefiting from the creation of a corporate entity.
Benefiting means, you know, financially benefiting and that is creating that has that is allowing money to flow between corporate entities globally for purposes that aren't always wholesome
Until there is a global legal move towards prescribing registries, to be able to strongly identify the beneficial owners that corporation. So that's why I kind of praise identity human identity as well as you know legal into the identity.
Of that's kind of like there's like Europe is already in acted legislation around global beneficial ownership.
Come back to money laundering and Maddie financing. So there's a rather large
shift happening and
Delaware is going to be right in the middle of that.
Yeah.
Absolutely, in fact, that Canada to, like, it's not like we're doing
We're not doing a good job here like we're not doing any job here at 350 bucks and you have a corporation. Yeah. All you need is a lawyer.
So,
Yeah, I
Mean, sometimes they even nominated lawyer and the lawyer didn't even know it.
To be honest,
So yes, I'm really big issues here that our governments are facing in terms of cleaning up you know certain activities and the economy that are having a very significant negative impact.
In
That actually has come up in a couple of
Conversations. I'm glad you mentioned Europe, because that is kind of the model that love the states are starting to look at
And
Obviously, you mentioned
But it's that balance because
You know identity.
In
Maybe even lack of having to disclose is a philosophical debate and obviously there's different approaches to it in different geographies.
And when we extend the conversation beyond Secretary of State's office into other agencies have steak.
You know they have competing interests, you can imagine, as you just mentioned, for some of the bad actors or the less wholesome
Motivations the States Department of Justice has different goals they would love nothing more than to be able to pinpoint down to who those beneficial owners are and what the, what the, you know, quote unquote business purpose of a new newly formed company is is intended
Yeah.
For sure. I mean, I have personal views and opinions. Yeah.
So it's a very interesting space. Anyway, so be be cool to see some more detail on what you're thinking about and
And obviously if there's anything that can help out in terms of the work we've been doing. And we're, you know, we've been working with dentists off either on your guys
Yes, so he's he's well aware, but we're a
Great.
Anyone else like to jump in with questions or comments on this presentation.
Just like to say that it's good to see that everyone's gone to grapple with privacy and identity issues. And of course as john just said GDP and all its prescriptions for
For governance.
So important and whether we develop
Part of the whole GDP specification or all of it as left to be seen. And I think each you might say jurisdiction might look a definite areas of it, but they are some good tenants within GE GDP.
For privacy and the protection of dare to people's lives. I think we all need to be concerned with and block chain.
With regards to Indy and any, any other solutions. I think IBM has a separate solution for identity, but that's the area, we need to new know and understand more waters IBM solution visa V say in D.
On audio both blockchain and they're both so we moving in the right direction. It's, it's great to have this discussion. So thanks thank all of you.
Mean john here. I mean, I think, and we haven't played with this, but we kind of
We did do an early fabric.
Experiment. A couple years ago, but I feel like you can't. I think you need both personally
Fabric can't handle identity, all that well, like in the in the general context.
So I feel like transaction should occur and receipts effectively get started in a fabric network, potentially, if there is a need to be a database as well.
So I'd love to see something where we can start to model that were India's and
Powering, you know, sort of decentralized identity and transactions that are occurring between peers and when it's appropriate.
The result of that and transaction may generate some sort of signed received the could start saying a fabric network of interested parties like that to me seemed like an interesting model.
They're not you guys are thinking about that Pete. Yeah.
And actually it's interesting because Bennington that that the two use cases are starting to converge.
If, if you're familiar with how UCC filing work. It's probably similar for similar functionality better creditor relationship tracking
But even that simple idea of authenticating a debtors name in in a corporate context, that is not tied to an identity in the state of Delaware. So you would think a corporate registry exists.
And that that sort of becomes the official record of all the different legally formed legally recognized entities and then that would pardon.
Pardon of simplicity. But basically, that becomes your look up list of all the companies that potentially would be named as a debtor on a UCC filing that linkage does not take place and it's because they don't want it to take place.
The State takes a very
Sort of detached view on that, in that they don't want to be in the position of authenticating or validating names or identity of companies that are in the systems.
It's more or less a a notification is what they look at their role they they received the filings its intended as a notice based system and not a state endorsement or validation of identities.
Sure.
Surely committee with yeah
Yeah I don't love from Delaware. I mean, here, like there's a we have a personal property leans which is sort of like equivalent web you some of you.
And you can just anyone can just put a lien on anyone for anything. Yeah.
You just pay like 50 bucks or whatever. And you know, so like politicians get like spurious means put on them and then Lee and
So I do think there's areas there that needs to be tightened up.
That it comes from the time were you actually had to physically go into an office, you know, and
In the book, and so we're sort of in this kind of awkward thing where, you know, some dude from wherever can log in and do something, basically.
So, yeah.
Great. Well, like I said, it's an exciting project to be involved in. I think it'll be very transformative and potentially scale across us maybe even North America and
If you've seen some of the press around global debt registry, that's another kind of additional layer where this could be
Tied into. So it's really a pretty interesting global kind of development that I think we'll see over the next yourself. And like I said, happy to to go into a few more specifics as we get deeper into the project and have more that can be revealed.
Rose here. I think that would be excellent when more specifics are available. Do you have any rough timeline on when you think that might be available.
The first public demonstration is going to be in October. So I mean, not that far away. It really you're looking at two months out. So I think it would still be
Still be useful to new maybe even do a version of what we're demonstrating for the public community and Delaware could do that same thing here. We actually see the application mean picture a side by side screen a split screen kind of thing where you see the application itself.
Perhaps a web portal interface kind of thing user interface and then a another screen where you're seeing all the
Cane code and all the hashing going on that's, you know, typically happening in the background, but just for demonstration safe. You can see those things happening side by side. It's an interesting way to show a demo.
That would be spectacular. I'm sure everyone going to go ahead and speak for everyone and say that I think that would be extremely interesting and a great idea and in October, when you can do that.
So since you can't go into that quite yet. I have a couple of questions to sort of looking from a higher level. What was the initial driver.
Behind Delaware wanting to really do these explorations into blockchain given that there's many ways to solve these sorts of problems. What made them decide this is an area they wanted to actively investing experiment and
Great question. They being the lead state in the United States anyway for corporate registrations and UCC filings. They knew they had to do something to protect that.
That front runner position and they understood that they they didn't have a
really efficient seamless frictionless kind of experience for any of the members involved.
There was a lot of pressure on them to look for something new and luckily they have the appetite to consider new technology emerging technology. They want to be viewed as a progressive
Fast moving state, so that's that's really kind of the catalyst of how block chain even came into their view.
And deciding to explore a little bit deeper on all right if if it's something they want to consider what are the factors we need to be aware of before we even decide to move down the path of a
Got it. So they saw it as key to their survival and
Additive market between states.
Interesting.
Does anybody else want to chime in with any more questions today about this project.
Or add their own experiences.
Okay, well if folks are thinking about that. I'm wondering bit about whether members of the group are already familiar or feel like it would be beneficial in a future meeting to have a high level overview of what the different
I don't know what the right word to be components are pieces or areas of hyper ledger or in terms of what is fabric. What is, indeed, etc.
Would members of the group. Find a high level introduction
Or something they already know pretty well or would be useful.
I think it would be useful. I've done some studying on it, but it would be great to hear.
From other sources.
I agree. A even just the conversation we just had john and and how fabric and indie are coming together and how they can work together in concert for particular use case. I think having that overall view would be would be very helpful for everyone.
Yeah, it's john i would i would mean I'm pretty familiar with.
Indie obviously I would be what would be really cool, I think, is if we could get a representative from each of the prod major projects, you know, saw to burrow etc to come and give us a chat.
On their tech and you know maybe provide an example or two a real problem they're solving and and demo and and stuff. Because I don't, I'm not as familiar with the other projects.
So that that would be really cool.
Thanks, Florida. Maybe you can help in terms of recruiting some folks that we could chat offline about who to approach them maybe do
maybe want to perception.
Yes, I will be very happy to
Support you
I could volunteer or India.
To the
Presentation. That was very interesting and I didn't know that there's so much going on in the state of the hour, but
I have a question on how hard was it to convince everyone to participate in your solution because that that seems like a big challenge for everyone to scale from experiments are QC to production solution is how do you convince participants to
Another great question. And that was the importance of stressing value to all the participants all members of this network.
Right from the beginning and that early prioritization session that I mentioned that we started with. That's really what set the tone to have everybody involved. Now luckily
The Secretary of State's office in the state of Delaware. They, they do have a great strong relationship with the legal community and the registered agents.
That are in their state.
Because they all know it's it's important. That's it's really key to their, their ongoing existence. So I think they were very willing participants.
Knowing that it's better to be sort of in the 10th as things are being developed as opposed to being on the outside the tent and just riding along
That answer your question mark.
I know Marco is having some
Yes.
Yes, yes, sorry.
For that
It doesn't turn my question. And that's a very good learning experience. I think for everybody that finding the value and presenting that value of the network or over and you solution is one of the keys.
Cool okay this is Rose here, Marty you're clipping out probably about two words before the ends of your sentences, just FYI, but it sounds. I think most of what you said came through. But if you want to finish your chime in, you can't
You pair to still be muted.
Okay. Can everyone else hear me, just to check
Yes.
I can hear you. And my son was the initial oh no I didn't.
finish my sentence. And then, well it's today to say that. Anyway, so I'm going to just
Just checking. Make sure we didn't want to leave you able to finish anything but that's fine. Okay, great. Thanks matter.
Wherever Rio right so
In terms of it seems that they're at least has some interest in getting
Some overviews of the different areas of hyper ledger and john you have very
generously offered to
Tell the group of bit about indie is this when, when would you feel ready to give that type of presentation. Is that something you'd be ready to do in two weeks, or is that
Something you would like more. Yeah.
Right return super
Okay, well, you're
How about we say you're on the list for next week for an indie overview and I'm sure everyone here would really appreciate that and then Marco. We can work offline to think about the rest of the quarter of representatives, you might be able
To come in and the other topics.
Okay, great.
Sounds great.
In terms of
A few bits of housekeeping. And again, thank you so much. Peter this really exciting and very interesting introduction to how the
process works or is working with the state of Delaware in terms of getting a diverse group of stakeholders on board.
To be ready to try a new and unknown solution for which there's a lot of expectation, obviously, but also a lot of unknowns. So this is a very valuable case study. And I'm sure that we're all going to be quite interested come October one, you'll be ready to show us
You know demonstration.
Of how this is actually working. So again, first, thank you so much for sharing this with us. And if others have questions about this. I know, we'll have an opportunity either later in the call, or through all our different communication channels to go into that in more detail.
One thing that we're putting together. And I don't know if Kumar's still on the call.
Are you here. Yes, I see you
Yeah.
Hi Kumar where we were sent you and I were chatting about perhaps getting working together and getting some use cases on the wiki.
Calm and they can pretty well the plan that so fantastic. Okay.
Well, so everyone Kumar here has very generously volunteered to be the
I guess librarian for the use cases in terms of getting materials that have been presented on calls up and posted to the wiki so
First off, is anyone who's presented to date. I know john has already shared his materials. But, you know, Pete.
If there's anything that we would be allowed to put on a wiki that you feel like we'd be comfortable sharing that would be great to know and to share
With the group so that Kumar could put it up. If it's currently not ready to show on obviously that's understandable, but if and when there is that would be something they'll be good addition for building out the use case library as that was the number one most
Important priority, actually, when we did surveys members.
Okay, yeah, let me just double check make sure that we have permission from our client to show all this, more broadly, and then I'll send you a copy of it.
That would be great. Thank you.
And if anybody else that I might not be remembering has something that they have presented. I know Bobby you presented as well.
Again, maybe if we could just do a thread, either in the email or a rocket chat. So we have all those links together than really appreciative Kumar of you're putting
Yeah, I
Used to train
Station all different
Well,
that'd be fantastic. Thanks so much body. And if you could just remind us all in the email or in the chat where that link is again so that
Kumar can put them and income or like I said I'll chat with you offline how we're going to organize this into the use case section or something else that would be equally appropriate than that would be really great. Thank you.
Okay, I'm looking forward to next week, we've already got fantastic
You know lineup, starting with john and and presentation indie but wondering if anyone else here would like to have a bit of time on the agenda.
Some ways that the this time has been used as project presentations, but this is also a good time. If you are in an earlier stage of thinking about a project or trying to understand how to
even consider hyper ledger for your project that we have a group here peers and experts that we could use as a Q AMP a session. If you have a list of maybe five questions.
That you're working on. This is a fantastic opportunity and forum to really have some peer support so wondering if there's anybody who's either got a project or thinking about a project, who would like a bit of time for next in two weeks agenda to make use of all the expertise here.
Okay well people are thinking about it. If you change your mind, or feel like you're ready. Please do message me either through email or through the chat, as I think that there's no question too small. And this is really a very good opportunity to learn in a in a pretty safe peer environment.
I now would like to open up the discussion to just general concerns and questions that people may have, but most specifically
What is bringing you to these calls in this group just kind of an open discussion in what would be great to see more of so that we can think about our direction for the next quarter.
And again, no need to, you know, no question too small. No idea to small either but it'd be great to know what would make very exciting for you to see me available on this group.
Smarter Sam I come to these meetings to to see what others are doing. And so far.
Euros that I've been doing a great job in getting interesting. People with interesting presentations.
This also helps me to learn more about the possibilities and asked her to have them. Otherwise my
Public Sector clients in things others, others are doing because there's always lots of skepticism. So I would like to see more of this kind of project presented. I really like that. Thank you.
This
Is there anything that you're able perhaps to share from your work, because I know that you're working in a different you're based in Europe, is that correct
Yes, exactly. Mmm from Switzerland.
I will be able to contribute.
Because we just got this week.
Like an oral confirmation that we're going to do a project which is in the public sector and be more than willing to make lecture presentation showing what it is all about. And maybe by the end of the year presentation of the project in its current state.
That would be excellent.
Thank you for offering that and that's very exciting that you've just gotten confirmation her a real public sector project.
It would one thing I'm not. I'm sort of putting you on the spot, but maybe something you could consider is
If there's anything that you might be able to share before then, more broadly about some of the questions are dynamics of working in either Switzerland or Europe.
And you can you can decline, of course, but I know that this is a context, we haven't yet had any
Presentation on but it's always very useful to get different points of view. So I'm going to leave that very broadly specified is something you might want to think about and the, the expectation is of course not perfection. But if perhaps you could think about
Even any sort of summary of the kinds of environment you're facing or kinds of questions that are being raised when block chain is being discussed.
That itself would be quite informative. But you don't have to answer and you don't have to do it because I know I'm putting you on the spot. All right.
Next,
Yourself briefly.
See in the future.
Follow on August I presented the, where are the things
That you're
Hey Bobby, if we hear you correctly, it sounds like you would like to follow ups on what happened.
So if we understand you. And I think that, as things evolved would be quite interesting to know what happened next.
Anyone else in terms of being able to put forth what they would like to see more of from the group calls or from the group, generally, that would be excited
I would come in general question.
Please. Okay.
So I'm trying to do something overseas lacking in and corpus, but before that has any questions when we are doing a few. So I'm assuming we are trying to providing replacement of their existing systems, right. So,
So where are trying to, are we going to get the existing system that and everything into this doctrine or we don't know that too. At liquid
Men, we are providing from to see kind of solution.
So the plants will ask, like how it is going to be
Totally replacing their existing system into the opposite and how they're going to get those debt or what all those things still
Is there something generic question or trying to tell everyone else it's hitting the attention.
That seems like an excellent question.
Given that it's 57 past the hour. Might I suggest that we lead off our next call with a group discussion about this question.
So that folks maybe have two weeks to think about that. And I feel like this could easily be a 10 minute discussion if not longer and quite an important one that many people are probably facing
Would hopefully that would be OK with everyone that we we put that on our agenda for the next call
That's a good question, and I'm sure in two minutes. We won't be able to answer that.
Great. Okay. I'll take that as a yes. All right. As we're almost winding down. This has been actually a really productive and interesting call and I hope everyone else agrees.
That we've got a very exciting new use case laid out for us. We've got two things for our agenda next week, which will be a broad discussion about
What to do with legacy systems when you're at the proof of concept phase and potentially going to be replacing them, how, how does one possibly do that. I think that's going to be quite interesting, as well as an introduction to Indy
It also looks like we've got something to look forward to in October, about how the Delaware project is
coming about. And then towards the end of the year, it looks like from Marcus, we're going to have some interesting inputs from their experience in Switzerland, as well as potentially something earlier just on on broader
Dynamics in Europe so sooner really productive meeting. I'll back out right now and just open the floor for anyone who would like to share any parting questions needs thoughts, ideas feedback or what have you.
Great. Well, then, I think we're at the point where you say again, thank you so much to Pete and to all of you and time to say goodbye for now until in two weeks. So thank you everyone. And much appreciated for everyone's input.
Thank you.
Morning everyone
Will just give everybody a couple more minutes and then get started right at
A few things in the chat box here and get us going.
Good morning.
Courtney
Angela, how are you
I'm doing great. I've got
In like
The
Weather I
Both work without a lot of ECHO.
Okay, yeah. You're breaking up a little bit.
So,
We can make it.
Make it work.
Try a different Mike. I'll get off the phone line of tip I can work it that way.
Sounds good.
Very good, thank you.
Thank you for joining.
So we'll get going here and just
Introduction for folks that are joining I've put just a couple of notes and the the agenda for today in the chat box.
We are hoping to have
Naomi from the northeast.
Ne joining us. So hopefully, she'll be joining in.
Murcia,
Rich
Thanks for joining.
So, in the interest of time, I'm and I get us going, what's the
antitrust policy here I've linked to it also.
Actually that I did not work. So let me get that out for folks.
So the Linux Foundation meetings involved participation by industry competitors and as an intention of Linux Foundation to conductor all its activities in accordance with applicable antitrust
And competition laws does therefore extremely important that attendees adhere to meeting agendas and be aware of and not participate in
The activities that are prohibited under applicable US State law federal or for an answer, trust and competition laws examples of types of action that are prohibited at Linux Foundation meetings and in connection with Linux Foundation activities.
are described in the Linux Foundation and
Policy available at HTTP.
Www dot Linux Foundation org slash antitrust dash policy. If you have any questions about these matters, please contact your company Council.
Or if you are a member of the Linux Foundation, feel free to contact Andrew up to grove of the firm guys murder after Grove LLP provides legal counsel to the Linux Foundation.
Hi this is Naomi I'm hope I'm in the right meeting.
You are. Hi, this is Marissa
Yesterday,
Availability, so I'll start with a very brief introduction, just to get everybody kind of on the same page, and then I know we are only slotted to have you until
12 3930 Pacific time. So we'll try and jump right into questions. So this meeting or the patient subgroup of the healthcare are working group of of the hyper ledger project. And so we have been looking to
build upon a use case specifically focused on kind of putting patient or user at the center in the healthcare context and Anton and run
From rabbit healthcare came to us with interest in thinking about a possible solution for for donor milk.
Supply chain and transparency. So they focus. They have a mobile application that works and Nick us so kind of that last mile of ensuring that these get fed the the right milk but there seems to be opportunity to help support the overall donor milk ecosystem.
And some other way. So today we have now only from milk, big north east to his name. We all let you do a brief introduction for yourself.
But really looking forward to connecting with you as a subject matter expert in the area and being able to ask some questions that can help us identify where we can really target the build that we're looking to create to support your, your work.
So with that, do we have any questions before we we get going.
Yeah, hoping I get a little bit more
I mean, I've looked at the website and I'm still trying to wrap my mind around that and what it is that you're doing and
How it
relates to what we do it again. But I made to help them. Yeah, and that's that's
completely valid, we are still trying to understand a little bit better about how we could potentially support the work that you're doing as well.
And really, we've had input from from Anton and Ron as far as where they're seeing some opportunities, but, uh, you are really the first
subject matter expert working in this space that we've been talking to. So with that, you know, if there are specific questions that you have. We're happy to feel those. And then, you know, also if there are other folks in your
That
You think it would be beneficial for us to connect with. We'd love to also explore explore that a little bit more as well with you.
Okay. I mean, once I have a better idea of exactly what you're doing. I'll probably be able to recommend other people to talk to you.
Yeah, that makes sense. So, what we are really
Aiming at this point I'm with the information that we have is to help bring transparency around the kind of supply and demand of donor milk coming from from milk banks and then also kind of
supporting the idea of making sure that the traceability of the milk.
And that chain of custody is
Is protected and
visible to all parties involved. And so maybe we can just jump into some of the questions that we
Had
Because I feel like you, you might be able to let us know whether where you are actually experiencing challenges that we might not be aware of. So
Far
And so maybe if you could speak to you and I actually first of all let me, let me give you an opportunity to just to introduce yourself to the group.
So my name is Sammy pariaman the director of the mill mother's milk like northeast in the Boston area and
I've been in this business for about 10 to 12 years depending on how you measure things and I just completed a term, as the President of the human male banking association with America. So I have contacts sort of a finger on the pulse of other no face as well.
In the nonprofit world.
Wonderful, wonderful.
Thank you again for your time. I know that you're incredibly busy.
And so one of the, just the general overall questions that we had were
Wanting to understand a little bit better. So maybe if you have any major challenges that the the donor banks are facing, particularly around supply and demand visibility and transparency.
So I'm not sure what you mean by supply and demand visibility visibility, who
To other to other donor banks to hospitals.
And understanding. I guess if they're, you know, one of the other questions is, how, how does a hospital know which bank has the milk. How do you determine where your milk, where they donations go to hospitals. Those are the
Types of questions.
Hospitals work with. They have contracts with milk.
So we, you know, work with
Our mailbag works with about 85 mil thanks mostly in the northeast and they
You know, so we have a working lunch with them. They were in middle from us many of those hospital. I don't know how many, but many hospitals have multiple contracts.
Because if there is short supply. They want to know they can get their milk. So they have contracts with more than one meal plan. What is the primary one is your secondary each of them works is slightly differently.
And we are mandated according to our guideline. So if, if we get an order for milk when we cannot meet, we are required to reach out to other Amanda mill thanks to get milk to the hospital.
Whether they spend it, however, that works. I mean, that works differently in different circumstances, but we are that's that's what we do is we get milk two babies. And so we have enough milk there. They reach out and we send them you know someone else.
Okay.
So does that help is that answering your question.
Yes, I mean that that definitely helps with understanding a bit more than the process flow there.
Are their
Challenges with that.
That process of, you know, working with other banks to get contracts fulfilled when maybe you don't have the supply as expected.
Or is that pretty well established process that works well for you guys.
It seems to have other individual challenges and glitches. Occasionally there always are.
But, but basically the system works and it works in two ways. Isn't milk bank is somewhat short sometimes will thanks. We'll send raw milk to one another. So we have you know enough raw milk to to do our processing and a little bit of extra we will send it to other No thanks.
So that they can process it and send it out or we will send directly to other hospitals. So, someone will call and say, I can't fill this order.
Can you send two x hospital.
You know this order or sometimes will even send the milk to smell to another notebook and then they send it out to their hospitals. It really varies, but there are
Ways we do have ways to make this work. And at this point, the organization is so small enough that we have to do that by emailing each other.
You know, as, as we grow. Is that going to change, possibly, you know, there's definitely looked at sort of how to how to make this a little bit more efficient of a process, but basically that's how it works, right, and
That's really helpful.
Before we move on.
Hi. Yeah.
Question the
I guess one of the functions that the milk bank provides is a is a quality check or a screening is that of the milk or the donors, can you speak to kind of the
The, the quality assurance function that you that you play in that that whole flow.
So yeah, I could speak on that for hours, but we don't have time, I will be brief.
So we do both. We have a very careful detailed screening of donors.
It is modeled after blood banking. So we asked a lot of the same questions that one would ask if one was donating blood, plus we have additional questions about medications that moms are taking the donors screening is briefly kind of a three to four step process. There's a phone screen.
Initially, about a 10 minute phone screen which gives us a really broad idea of, are there any huge red flags where we just will not be able to take this month's milk. It also allows us to begin establishing a relationship with the donor, which is an ongoing relationship.
And then we send them a packet of materials either online or paper, however, or which includes the consensus. It includes detailed five or six page health screen and it includes
Sign off from them permission for us to contact both of moms doctor and the babies doctor for the physicians to sign off.
That they don't have any concerns about donating about the mom with a baby. And then we. And then the last step is a blood test we send them but kids, they are tested for hepatitis B.
And that's one factor that comes back clean and we hear back from the doctors, then we can accept their milk.
Once we have the milk in hand and then they ship it to us and that varies a ship it directly. You're dropping offer for for gets dropped off in a local people know collection site.
And we receive the mill frozen and then we pasteurized milk and we
The milk to make sure that the milk is safe we test for both the bacteria but pathogens in the milk to make sure that our pasteurization process did his thing, and really kill all the bad stuff.
So that's that's in a nutshell.
You know, sort of clinical screening process.
They just one more question is that
The milk that supplied by the donor is that
When you process it. Is it combined with other donors and then separate it out or is it really kind of that initial donation effort goes through process. It's, it's the same
Milk, you know,
Aside. So we do
We do we take each batch as we do each pool of milk has the milk of anywhere between usually between three and five. Sometimes six or seven to where you between three and $5
Okay that is pooled and that gives us a better sort of
Homogenous. It's not a modernized milk, but it is a better mix of components of milk when you're pulling from more than one and then from there.
You separate into the units that are
Intended to be shipped out right so the put the each pool of milk is right, we pull the milk and then we poured into bottles. We pasteurized, the bottle, we feel the bottles and pasteurized and then the milk.
Basically, don't open the bottle again until it's sent me a hospital opens it when they're ready to use it and it's kept me staffers pasteurized. We call it down and refuses
To hospitals frozen.
You, me, I guess. In addition to that, the kind of the, the process that you talked about the screening of the mothers and then getting the milk in all of that that documentation work is that
Point, or is it an electronic system they use for getting all those approvals and the lab tests and everything.
The combination of so we each know bank is its own institution and each has its own system. Some of them use barcoding systems.
From company that you know specifically created barcoding systems from milk banks and and human milk.
And
I mean, in our milk bank. It's a combination of we have all the information in the database. And we also keep a paper records.
And we, I mean, we do not use barcoding with that whole other discussion. But that's, that's how we do it. And then we tracker and
When the mom sends us the milk. We tracked very carefully, obviously, who's milk is going into which batch sometimes mom tap blackout dates on their milk. So, for example,
Mom got sick and design antibiotic and she can't, we can't use her milk during that period every single battle that we receive Romani have to be so that we can take out the milk.
So,
In a scenario like that.
You said that you kind of track you know what mother's milk those into each batch, so you're able to trace back from the batch. Exactly.
Okay.
And
All because sometimes there are recalls, we have to know not only exactly which moms milk when it each batch. But we're each bottle from that batch went in terms
And that makes
One other question regarding
Contamination because one of the
Benefits.
Are of the the technology that we're working with is just having complete traceability when something moves from one place to another and always knowing where it where it originated from. So
You mentioned that you
Don't use barcodes. What does that
Map that process look like for you. If there is contamination that has been identified, or I need to go back to recall
So we record.
Then we have two different databases that we work from the basically every bottle of milk that goes out has a batch number has a pool number unabashed number on it.
We record that so we just did a mock recall because we're required to do mark. We calls every couple of years.
And somebody called in the, you know, we had our medical director who called in and said, this made up a situations and this happened.
And we had to within. We have to do it within a couple of hours. We didn't fairly when we did a very quickly, we go back and look in our database and say, Okay, here's the batch of milk.
Which hospitals that it go to and you know we got that information very quickly. Obviously, when you're doing a mock
You know actually call the hospitals, but we haven't had to call the hospitals and say you need to question this mill until this is resolved or whatever.
And we need. We are mandated to, I guess, said to do the mock every couple years and we need so that should it come up, we can turn around the response and get to the hospitals, very quickly, and the families because we send those operations.
And then that gets reported. Sometimes it's report depends on what the nature of the problem is, it is reported to local health authorities if they needed and to our national organization and sometimes
Depending on the situation. Sometimes we have to report it to the
Really why you didn't follow through on them for Mac mockup process because it is just a mock process did everything goes smoothly. Were there any problems.
Yeah, no, we mean we we were able to identify you know what we needed to identify and get it back to our medical director
Your current process grabbing the names because they have a thing we didn't send them the names of donor. So yeah, we
We were able to do that. And unfortunately, we have had a couple of situations where we have had to call hospitals and say you know there's there's
Something equivocal here. We need you need to sequester the mill mom until we resolve that. And we are able to do that very quickly. You know who to call and email and get the information out.
So your current processes seem to be
Working. Yeah.
That's great.
And then New Vegas. One other question on the kind of supply the storage aspect. You mentioned that the the bottles are sealed and frozen.
And really aren't opened again until the hospital receives the milk has or is there concern around kind of physical storage of the milk or any challenges with storing it securely through that whole chain of
Transportation and and process.
We have not had problems we are required for our freezers, obviously, to be secure. You know, locking on a secure area. From there, we put them in a you know styrofoam line box and said that we use fedex different people use different or careers.
And they get the milk to the hospital and we now have a system with fedex where we the hospital knows that, and they'll whoever they designate knows that the milk is coming, so they look for it.
If there's ever a problem. And occasionally, there are delays, who said there's a storm in Memphis, and you know, whatever.
And the mill delay. Occasionally there are problems.
They've got a problem in July.
So, so, good morning. Thanks for joining us. So this is Richard Seattle.
So just as a follow on
Versus comment. Has there ever been a history of any kind of adulteration in the pipeline for milk.
No.
Safety track work with the bottles are are all the models are tamper evident and occasionally
Bottle looks like, you know, mostly because the tasks that we use are not very good caps and we're working on that. But we've never had a problem. No.
Okay.
Great, thanks.
So,
Go ahead. Sorry, this is Marta from hyper ledger.
I was wondering, so now me. What is your biggest pain. What is your like, do you have in ideal world, what would you solve
So interestingly, I mean our systems work. I think I would say two things to that. One of them is that
As we get bigger and things are standardized more it will be valuable to standardize across Milstein
That is a great ideal.
standardizing cross mill things as a little bit like herding cats.
There's just, you know, people work in their own contexts and figuring out how to standardize while allowing people to work in their own context in their own communities is an interesting challenge I think the other thing that would be helpful is for us to be able to receive
Some data from the hospitals where the milk goes, because once we send out milk to a hospital that information on who was seeds that milk in terms of the babies, it just falls into a complete black hole. And while we don't need that in order to process those kinds of data are very valuable.
To get information across hospitals about who's receiving the mill. Obviously it would be stripped of any individual data that we're all different compliant, but just
You know gestational age diagnosis. How long was the babies. He has some basic questions would be really helpful. And there's that barrier between
Staff of hospitals versus are way too busy to collect that data for us and send it to us.
So finding a way to kind of do that.
With the hospitals permission, obviously, but in an anonymous aggregated way would give us some very powerful information about the value of what we do and it will be really important research tool.
And we have the capacity because collectively we work with hundreds of hospitals to really have a very powerful.
So this is a Michigan. Just to follow up on that interesting point. So he has an infant ever become ill from taking mother's milk.
Out of, you know, from out of your supply chain. And it sounds like there. There may not be traceability, at that point, or you may not be aware of that is, is that correct
You're asking a really good question.
We do not have a documented cases a baby being harmed by using donor milk.
From a from a Habana milkshake and we are very careful in our processes have anything ever happened. Can something happened that we don't know about it can be traced back to the mill, possibly. But in the meantime, we have a very strong safety record collectively
Making sure
Great. Okay. Understood. Thanks.
On the
On the value of the feedback from the hospital to you. And it sounds like it can give you really good data for research and it makes me wonder is it
Something that you think could help you modify or create products that are more, I guess, designed for different use cases. And I'm wondering, I guess, today is all milk. The same is there a vision that
This feedback that you get in terms of
How milk is being used for which kind of
Patients allows you to really, I guess better
Fit a need that you might not have visibility into. Now, can you tell me about the value of what that data, which would give you
That's a good question. I think potentially
We would have to kind of combine the data that we get with other research on human milk, which is also kind of a burgeoning field.
Some milk banks do calorie analysis on their mouth and macronutrients analysis on their mouth. We do not have a whole other discussion that will have some of the time.
Some they'll things do that and getting a sense of how valuable that is or even how accurate the information is that they're getting from the analyzers, which is part of the issue with it.
Would be useful, but a sense of kind of how they're using the mill.
Both you know for the premature babies and and more and more for the full term baby could allow us yes to to have a better idea of how to use, how to our processes fairly standardized
Is the milk. All the same, it's kind of a kind of an interesting
Dichotomy I guess that we're dealing with in one is that we want it. We want sort of standardized products. On the other hand, human milk is unique and
How do we take advantage of those unique properties in Memphis beginning to be researched. I don't know how much you guys are in the research world is beginning to be some research on what one component is no called human look all of the fact
That, you know, could we could we sort of figure out which all of the secretaries work better just solve which problems. Possibly. I mean that's down the line. We're not there yet. In terms of the research, but the beginning to collect basic data.
On these things will be helpful and combining it with a research on the all of the saccharine. And the, the, the protective factors in mill.
Would be really powerful. And I think the other thing is that we know our goal is always to support the mother to breastfeed. And we do know from research that when Nikki's use donor milk.
Moms breastfeed more. And that's always our goal and just figure out, get some data on that would also be helpful on how long does it take to get the mail, under what circumstances to moms do better.
Combining the donor milk with with actually breastfeeding on their own all of that.
Is really important work to do. And there's small studies on that, but to have a large, powerful dataset will be really important so that answer your question, right.
So new we had you want to be conscious of your, your time because I know we were wanting to stop.
here shortly and
Thank you for for your
Question that was really, really critical. And we clearly didn't get to all the questions that we had. But I think this
Gives us a lot more information.
So, Naomi, I guess, to your question of what we're trying to do. We're really looking for opportunities as a healthcare community to engage with
Problems out in the market leveraging some potential new technologies, this block chain technology which you might have heard of. And what what it might offer and facilitate that isn't isn't possible now.
And
I think
If you would be open to continuing the conversation with us. We could have another Q AMP a session. Once we kind of regroup internally and process all the information you gave us today.
Or if there's someone else from your team that you think would be good to connect with or someone outside of your specific milk bank that we might be in touch with
With love to reach out as well. So I will kind of leave it to you to decide what he would like to do for for next steps and you don't need to answer that right now.
Okay and I'm happy to continue that conversation and
Yeah, let me think about who would be the best other people. I mean, our national innovation.
For the first time ever only executive director and she might be somewhat you bring into this conversation but but
Her expertise is not in the clinical parts. I'm not sure that I have to think about who would be the best person to kind of bring into this conversation.
Sharing
That totally makes sense. Well, thank you so much for your time and I will be sending out kind of notes from today and
Our follow ups for, you know, questions we'd like to answer next
Okay, great. Alright, thank you.
Have a great weekend. Everybody
Thank you.
All right. We'll talk again.
OK, guys.
So I guess, any, any initial thoughts on the other agenda item that we have for today was to have Dr. Angela Courtney kind of take us through the initial build that she has put up on Github
And and have conversation around what she's done. And any questions there, but I didn't know if anyone had some feedback directly from what we just heard from Naomi, there's going forward.
So is anyone from Rapid healthcare on on the call this morning.
Oh man, it'd be great to get some feedback from them and get their perspective based on what Naomi has said.
I have, I have some opinions, but I'd like to hear from others first
Hi. This is Kyle is my first call that I'm joining, but I've been following
Mailing list. The, the question that I had was more about regulatory compliance and other agencies that are involved in in the supply chain and regulation of it.
So. So my questions would be related to things like reporting information management within the milk banks that are mandated and any other regulations. So for example, the health screening of donors.
What type of a clinician is required to perform that and what type of information. What type of screenings, you know, those are, I guess are kind of details, that would be great to flesh out and then also variations in regulations between jurisdiction, so
Working across state lines and whether there are potential for policy conflicts in in the entire industry.
Yes.
Thank you. And I don't know Benjamin's on the call, but
Hey good morning and you had, I think, a very similar question of just kind of
What the regulations look like and the paperwork load. And you know what what opportunities there might be might be there and I'm sorry we didn't get to that today, but that's definitely something that we could continue the conversation on because I feel like that might be
Half hour in and of itself to kind of understand the the label and regarding the the regulatory landscape.
Jack because I think it's also very important for us to make sure that we build is actually employers.
That he's going to determine a lot of D architecture of the net way.
Any other initial thoughts.
To thinking, since this is also my law school, medical school, my first one.
Now hopefully not
Just wanted to say hi to everyone.
And job in a career during the same like reading all the materials, you've sent and look forward to catching up and
Thank you and rich Benjamin is in Seattle as well so
Don't great welcome welcome Ben glad. Glad to have you here. And yeah, we should find some time to get together, it'd be great to talk a little bit more
Yeah, absolutely. A coffee with the civil Conan
Excellent. And welcome to the team. Yeah, it'd be great to have you here as a regular we're doing some pretty interesting stuff here. So yeah, welcome.
Definitely. Thank you.
And what is your interest in the group.
So I actually have a side gig it as a blockchain architect. So I've deployments applications in type of data fabric, which means that any opportunity to
Practice the skills is a weapon.
And
That's pretty exciting topic, just because he has a very
Concrete
And feel based applications. So
Yeah, that's small technological aspect.
So,
Let me interject an hour, I'll mention that we have
A
Rocket chat channels that I just posted to everyone. Ben, it'd be great if you if you were to jump out. If you haven't already, please jump on there. Get yourself a Linux Foundation account. If you haven't already, and we can sort of continue the threaded conversations or have offline.
Yeah, Linux, and consumers any
Awesome.
I think it was, was it
Had the initial question first. This is also your first time on the call.
Yeah.
I've not had a chance to to join in on the calls earlier but my background is with
Regional Health information networks and ad exchanges data sharing networks and and so I'm coming more from healthcare domain background and
My interest is actually an application of these types of solutions in developing countries emerging markets where the
The health systems tend to be a little bit weaker in terms of regulation and compliance and and a lot of the problems that that we raise questions about on this call regarding exact tampering and safety are much more important concerns.
And you also dealing with health systems with fewer resources.
So I'm thinking about
Probably a non us context in terms of where we would apply these types of solutions.
Yeah, that's a
That's a great point. So I come from, I have a global health background and in public health. So I, those are definitely the types of use cases that really drew me to the the blockchain based
And this might be you know Angelo's actually mentioned as we've been kind of talking about this donor milk use case kind of the ability to think about this framework as a potential solution for
A lot of other applications, thinking about just traceability and chain of custody.
That might be relevant, and those global health and emerging market context so
Okay, so let's look
At this one.
Can I just speak up for a minute.
Jeff.
Rich. I thought you said you had some pins you're waiting for other people. But since no one's willing to take the arrows.
In the back. I'll speak up everything she said confirm what I've been saying all along. There's not a problem here that we need to solve with blockchain. She doesn't even have a problem.
So I guess Jeff to
Say, I am very grateful for, for marches.
Question on on you know what her major pain points are. I think that's where I would like to explore a little bit more because it does seem like if we're wanting to look at
That that feedback mechanism for them. And then also the scalability issue I think is really irrelevant and standardization.
There's there's opportunity there that I would still like to move forward. I agree with you as far as right now with the size that they're at
They're able to redistribute you know contract obligations and they feel like an it
System does seem to be the working. I mean, not having any documented case of a baby getting sick from the milk is a pretty strong statistic, so I i do agree with you there. But I think there's still dialogue that we can we can have around this use case.
But I think what what you're suggesting and what one of the things that she said would be helpful was was broadening this across the industry. That's a political problem, not a technical problem.
And and she is much said that in the way she phrased that I mean it's herding cats kind of issue.
So, so this is right. So yeah, Jeff, I mean,
My take is similar
In that I didn't hear any kind of real outstanding issue and it'd be great to get sort of, you know, rapid healthcare sort of take
On what what Naomi has presented today. But yeah, I think, I think we probably want to parse this a little bit and get sort of a better a better understanding of where where the issues are cuz to me to your, to your point, I didn't see anything that it was over.
Which just just just to add to that is not necessarily unusual but you know most folks when when you ask, you know, what's the problem it's it's really sometimes very hard.
To sort of get out of, out of their kind of sort of common sort of field of view that they're used to any particular way of making it you know sort of real obvious changes to
Other eyes wrote
Process. So I've asked the same sort of question in the world of Nephrology for people looking at will change to workflow and they
Generally will say I, you know, things are generally okay
And so there's, you know, never, never once have I had someone jump up and down and say, oh yeah, here's a problem that needs to be fixed. So it may, it may require maybe a couple iterations, maybe speaking with
Different species in the in the space to get sort of a consensus here but yeah for for Naomi's call I didn't, I didn't catch anything off out
I think that's one of the things I would love to investigate.
How good the health reporting is because first of all, we don't have a way I think to track babies for a while after so just immediate did they get
Sick. And second, how good is the report self reporting from people
blood donor and I will
Know that I'm healthy. But I visited a country and it was like six weeks ago, not seven weeks ago. I'll still say no, I haven't been anywhere wrong.
Yeah, you know, Marta, though. The one thing that I think we might be did pick up from Naomi was that were a little bit blind on the the endpoint.
With the with the baby with the infant. And so that might be where we'd want to put some emphasis. But again, I'd still like to hear from sort of rapid healthcare perspective on on what they're sort of perspective on that point would be
It's my guy, I would think. Also, there could be, you know, knowing that they don't have visibility into that in point just thinking about the hospital and there and they they likely don't have visibility into
Supplying thinking about maybe problems that they could have, for example, is like, Where can I find the milk. There's all these, you know, so where's the supply work and I need it quicker sooner. And so I'm, you know, I'm wondering if there's things that Naomi's hearing from
Consumers hospitals that that they're asking for. That could be a potential option as well.
Yeah, that's, that's a good point. Michael, because that's definitely the perspective that we please I got from Anton and from the rabbit health care folks is just not being able to know, you know, not be able to visually see where the supply is and where they know that their
You know their contracts going to be
So from and I mean if
You know, Naomi's doing our groups, you know, calling other bags to kind of make sure that the need is there's probably not the transparency around that and Nick you the
Peace of mind maybe that they would want on their on their supply chain of that resource.
Okay, so I would like to. We have about 15 minutes left. I would like to turn it over to Angela to speak a little bit about the work that she's done
In composer and what we have in our labs repo at this time. So, Angela. I don't know if you want to provide a little bit of context about what you built and then maybe we can open it up to anyone that's been able to play with it and get get some feedback for you at this point.
Sure. Can you hear me okay
Yeah, I hear you. Great.
Oh, great. Let me try to share my screen.
Okay.
Let's try this.
Can you see my screen. Okay.
I'm not seeing anything just yet, but I might just be a delay.
Okay.
I've got a barring my way. So let me try to move this now messing everything up, if possible.
There. Yeah.
So I'll skip over to the actual Github Repo that we have. And hopefully, everyone's had a chance to go into the hyper ledger milk donor repo. There's a branch. And if you can see where I'm pointing here in the repo that says a Courtney 2015 and that's where I've placed the files.
And I've got some delay on my computer. So bear with me. I'm the file that you're looking for is the one that says milk network dot being a and that's the the basic network that is been put together all
Toward up all balled up into one file so that you can just drop it right into hyper ledger composer playground and open it up if you hover over the description area and I've put in some really basic instructions to help you get it open, including the link to
The hyper ledger playground. So all you have to do is is click on the dot B AMP a file and then it will take you to the ability to download it.
See if I can show you that. Not sure how many people actually can see and how many people are on the phone and can't see but
If you can see, once you click on the dock BNA file, you'll get this view or it says view raw and a bar and there's a download button. If you click that it's going to drop the file right onto your computer and then from there you just go to hyper ledger composer playground.
And then you can open up the playground itself. Let me see if I can get that at a couple of things in the way
A visual or at least the link to the repo to follow along if they they want to or anyone meeting more information.
It's everybody okay
Try to make it work, but it's for phone and for visual so
Once you open up the playground. It's going to be blank. And essentially, it's going to take you to a point where you can download a file.
And then you just drop that got BNA file in there, you double click on it, it'll say we're on your computer is this file that you want to open up for this network.
You double click on that dot DNA file that you dropped on your computer, and it's going to roll up the network and from there you just click Deploy an open so it's pretty simple. What you'll see is this and
It is very, very simple, so everyone can kind of get a feel for what we have to work with. So essentially what you have are
Three things in the network. And that's just a basic network itself, the participants assets and transactions. And so in participants. I have treater
Which could be anyone from the neck you to the donor to the hospital to the milk bank, those can be defined individually, those can be defined within the subclass as they they self identify
You have the asset which here is milk and then you have the transactions so you can play with this network and kind of see what's there. What I have in there right now is
When you roll up the trader.
Has very basic things in there, such as the trader ID.
The first name of the person and I just wrote first name input her because I just wanted to kind of keep going and keep moving and not struggle for
The name of the person who's actually inputting the data. So I'm sure we have a better name for that. So please up you know what you want to call that field.
Here, in this example, I just wrote Jane Secretary
Just to count if give everyone an idea that this is the person who's inputting the data. So if there's an errors and things like that. And we can go back to that person. The organization name milk charity or here and
ID number two organization name, you know, good nick you so it could be any one of those when you're looking at the milk itself.
In this basic what we have is the barcode symbol.
With if they're using a barcode, you know, that could be a place there. And whatever number or coding system they're using for the milk itself.
You have description that could be anything that you know you want to put in there. You can even guide the person who's in putting the information as to what you want to have in there. For example, from what she said.
You know, the description. We could have one of the items be is it frozen. Is it raw, not not frozen. But is it raw, or has it already been processed, I can be a binary yes or no.
That sort of thing. You can put as much information in here as you want the quantity, who owns it. Right now I'm we can certainly put location. So I left a very basic so that we can get an idea of what can be put in there. So I wanted to just show you if I could.
Sort of
My computer's not going to be too slow.
Show you a little bit
Behind the curtain so we get an idea of
You know how this works. And what we can put in it. So I'm inside the model dot c to file.
And here you can put any information that you want to have. So here, this is looking at the asset milk.
And you can see where that description line came from.
You can put which exchange. It's on here is where the quantity of the milk is in there so you can put it is many things identifiers
Are parameters that you want for both the milk itself for the trader itself. We can make those different people.
Different organization and
You can also give different permissions to different ones. So, for example, donors would only have certain permissions within the the network or from what she said. You could have outside outpatients who are going into actually order the milk. So that could be a different permission file.
So we really can modify it in any way you want.
And also you know we we wanted to. If we decided that we wanted to sort of add on a little bit more
Of a different spin to it. You know, you could, you know, if you wanted to change it to have
A different asset instead of just milk and you wanted to show more of what this could do. You could, you know, just make another asset called Ebola vaccine or
Or anything like fat like whatever you wanted to change it to. So, um, any questions.
I guess, Angela. For me, I just want it, first of all say thank you so much for diving into this, you know, I think you've shown incredible initiative. And I think that's awesome.
My. I'm curious about just after hearing Naomi today.
Are you thinking about your build differently in any way or it seems like there's enough flexibility in this that it's still relevant for what we're moving forward with
For me on the build side, it can be done in in whichever way the group wants to go. So, I mean, I just need to have direction as to, you know, what we want to have in the parameters so
If we want, you know, as we're moving the build forward. That's sort of what I'm looking at. Well, what parameters do we actually want in the asset for milk because what happens is each of these parameters and all kind of go back
To the code itself when you're looking at
For example, let's go. Just to the milk again.
When you're looking at these different parameters that we have in, for example, quantity two ounces description high protein you the the
The user side on the front end of this app. There's an application that kind of gets stuck on the front end and
It can call each of these parameters that we put in. So if you only wanted to pull all milks that had high protein.
Then we need to have basically that as a parameter in there so that it can be queried. So any parameter that we put in can be directly queried from the front end.
So we just have to have all the parameters in there. So really that's sort of what I'm trying to dig out of where we're going. And what we're doing is is okay. What parameters, am I putting in there.
And what participants, do we need a names, or do we need to just leave it as trader.
And then have these three options are actually four options that people can choose from when they're working with a network where they self identify if they're a hospital or Nick you or donor or milk bank.
So they all have to be in the code in order to be queried
So this is rich. So have we gotten any direction from Rapid healthcare.
No, they have not provided any feedback on the build so far.
Head, it'd be great if we can get them looped in because
They're in a way, kind of an off offhand, where the kind of our customers. So it'd be great to sort of get their take on things.
Definitely make that occurred.
With the fallout from this meeting.
No. God, I just was going to say, you know, I was
One one good thing that looks like it'd be really nice to add
To this just from her conversation is, you know, batch number two the milk.
You know those sort of things, those, those parameters that we can certainly add that way they can query the network and pull basically which milks or in which batch and also location.
To the milk in that way you can just query the location of batch number, you know, x, y, z, and it should pull up all the milks, and that batch for those hospitals, so
Service Suresh again. So just offhand, we may want to add a flag for whether it's, you know, the batches valid or invalid in the event that they have to do a recall of some sort.
Yeah, it'd be great if we could put together.
Some sort of list of what we want under each
You know, hiding under participants. Do we want to leave it as trader because you guys get to go in and play with this and see what works and what doesn't for you.
And then what parameters we want under the milk and that way we can just put it in. Also, if we put location we can know where things are really quickly as well here.
Yeah, I can add that to the wiki for sure and start building out there.
Yeah, so I sit down to, and hopefully Ben's gonna help
When I sit down to wrangle if it code, then you know I can. I can start putting things in at the same at the same time, that'd be really nice.
Good. We have another question on the line.
Yeah, well, kind of feedback Kyle. Again, I wanted to sort of
Suggests that we need to add a more explicit role or for participants that are
Potentially, and this may vary from place to place. But, you know, a participant. Who's, who's representing the public health department or the
regulator of this type of network because I think we need to, you know, bear in mind that there is an oversight role, kind of a compliance and regulatory role which which should be kind of included within
within the system.
And I would say the same thing about potentially the role of a professional
Practitioner like a clinician, it could be, again, that could vary based on policies and jurisdictions. It could be a physician or a nurse or somebody, but
You know, the, the validation of the clinical assessment of the donor, for example, the screening
Someone has to kind of sign off on that, you know, and there's a legal liability that goes along with that kind of added station about the you know the quality is a note that's being provided. So I would kind of give that as as my feedback in terms of the entire set of stakeholders involved.
Sure, yeah, I mean that that shouldn't be too hard to do in terms of adding different participant types and that we can add a regulator, but we have to think about, you know, from the build side what we want that.
Participant to be able to do what information we want them to to have what we're going to add to it. So it's not hard to actually add a participant, but you have to think about what we want their
Function to be how they can interact with the code or they just viewing the code, what information we actually want to have from them and like regulator.
I have a code pulled up here where you would just put you know what
What agency, they're under those sort of things. So the details of what we want to have under those those different participant types.
It can all be done and you just need to let me know what you want them to be able to do
I guess the one complexity there is that, you know, you may find that there are a lot of variations in terms of
The requirements that are placed on these individual roles, you know, so the the policy environment of any particular jurisdiction or country that
The point is kind of system is going to have potentially its own variant in terms of the policies that applied to two specific stakeholders and and that that would affect the the workflow, you know that the process from
One end of the supply chain to the other. So it may be that those have to be treated more as kind of configuration.
Options or policies which, you know, again, it's something that
People working on in terms of blockchain and how that can be integrated into a consensus mechanism and so forth.
Well guys, I'm gonna try and wrap it up. Since we're just a couple minutes over, Angela. Thank you so much for demoing and thank you all for feedback any additional feedback, please feel free to continue the conversation and rocket chat.
I think next steps that I'm seeing is to summarize what we've found from Naomi today reach out to rabbit health care and get their feedback golf on the build. And what what we heard and then try and continue the conversation with Naomi specifically around the regulatory compliance.
Data tracking components and then also that feedback mechanism from from the Nick to us and how that might be an asset to them for research and kind of other other aspects to their work. Any other thoughts on the next steps.
Thanks for everyone's time
Alright guys, thank you very much and we'll
See you in a couple weeks for our next call thanks for joining. Marcia appreciate you being online.